London Buses Discussion

[MasterSpenny]

32 Enviro100 EVs have been ordered by Go-Ahead London. These will be based at Orpington garage, and going to be used on routes 233, R1, R3, R4 and R8.

32 Alexander Dennis Enviro100EV for Go-Ahead London in second next-generation order from capital | Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis, a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc., one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that Go-Ahead Group subsidiary Go-Ahead London has ordered 32 Enviro100EV small electric buses in the second deal with an operator in the capital for the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

Alexander Dennis, a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc., one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that Go-Ahead Group subsidiary Go-Ahead London has ordered 32 Enviro100EV small electric buses in the second deal with an operator in the capital for the manufacturer’s next-generation electric buses.

The buses will be used on Transport for London (TfL) services that navigate narrow streets and housing estates, where the Enviro100EV’s compact dimensions of 8.5m length and 2.35m width allow for great manoeuvrability while also offering room for up to 41 passengers, 21 of them seated.

Go-Ahead London will operate the buses from its Orpington Garage on local routes R1, R3, R4 and R8 as well as route 233 between Eltham and Swanley.

 

[MotCO]

32 Enviro100 EVs have been ordered by Go-Ahead London. These will be based at Orpington garage, and going to be used on routes 233, R1, R3, R4 and R8.

32 Alexander Dennis Enviro100EV for Go-Ahead London in second next-generation order from capital | Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis, a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc., one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that Go-Ahead Group subsidiary Go-Ahead London has ordered 32 Enviro100EV small electric buses in the second deal with an operator in the capital for the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

Interestingly, the R1, R4 R8 and 233 currently use 9.0m Enviro200s, so the new order will be shorter and narrower than the buses they replace, whereas the R3 is shorter by only 0.3m. I can understand the R3 and R8 requiring narrower buses, but the R1 is mostly if not entirely on main roads. Maybe it is for standardisation? Obviously the Metrocity EV was another contender.

No mention of the R2, R9 or R11 which uses larger buses. Maybe they will get Enviro 200 EVs?

The current PVRs are 233(6), R1(6), R3(6), R4(6), R8(1), a total of 25. Even allowing for spares, 32 sounds a bit high.

 

[TRXsouth]

Both the SL5 and SL7 have been retained (by Arriva / Go-Ahead respectively) with new electric 'deckers. This is significant and would suggest:

* The associated consultation (previously leaked) has not been officially released, ergo the routes will not change
* The South Eden Park Road trees will be cut down / trimmed (as appropriate) to allow safe passage of 'deckers on the SL5
* TfL now believe electrics have sufficient range to be ultilised on the 24-mile SL7

In addition, Stagecoach will operate the Silvertown Tunnel cycle bus with existing electric singles.

Source - tender thread on Tangytango Proboards (accessible to members only)

Just curious, but would the (now discarded?) SL7 route modification from Croydon back to Sutton also have meant a change away from Croydon bus garage?

 

[MotCO]

* TfL now believe electrics have sufficient range to be ultilised on the 24-mile SL7

The SL7 is 24 miles long, each journey takes approximately 2 hours (say 2.5 hours allowing for layovers) and has a 20 hour operating day. This means that each bus could travel a maximum of 8 journeys at 192 miles per day. The BYD D11 has an alleged range of 400 miles, the new ADL Enviro 400 EV up to 260 miles, so it is doable.

 

[sbrignall72]

Does anyone know when buses in London will track normally again, service 4 and 39 only show 4 buses and 1 bus respectively on lvf

 

[MotCO]

Does anyone know when buses in London will track normally again, service 4 and 39 only show 4 buses and 1 bus respectively on lvf

It's linked to the TfL cyber attack, so who knows?

 

[Edvid]

Today's tender results from LOTS:

Thursday 10 October

LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes with the operators listed below:

Route	Previous Operator	New Operator	PVR​	Vehicles
217	Sullivan Buses	London General	12​	Existing diesel double deck
Route	Current Operator	New Operator	PVR​	Vehicles
60	Arriva London South	Arriva London South	20​	New electric double deck
312	Arriva London South	Arriva London South	12​	New electric single deck
405	Arriva London South	Arriva London South	10​	New electric double deck
466	Arriva London South	Arriva London South	20​	New electric double deck
485	London General	Transport UK London	4​	New electric single deck
499	Stagecoach East London	Stagecoach East London	8​	Existing diesel single deck*

* One vehicle is diesel double deck.

New electric vehicles may enter service after the contract start date, dependent on infrastructure and/or vehicle delivery timescales.

The diesel vehicles detailed above will meet Euro VI emissions standards.

The start and end dates for the above contracts are detailed in the following table:

Route	Contract Start Date​	Contract End Date​
60	30th August 2025​	27th August 2032​
217	16th November 2024​	14th November 2025​
312	6th September 2025​	2nd September 2032​
405	30th August 2025​	2nd August 2032​
466	30th August 2025​	2nd August 2032​
485	3rd May 2025​	2nd April 2032​
499	28th June 2025​	2nd June 2028​

With route 312 among the latest to join the queue for (re)electrification, what of the decade-old Metrocities? Obviously they won't be back on the 312 and I presume they're still in storage, but would be interested to know if - 7 months since their withdrawal - a decision on their fate is close at hand.

Existing diesels for the ex-Sullivan 217 is no surprise but a one-year contract is shorter than I was expecting.

 

[sbrignall72]

It's linked to the TfL cyber attack, so who knows?

But mostly all others were working. So why is it down to certain services and companies. Surely the outage would affect all or nothing.

 

[700007]

But mostly all others were working. So why is it down to certain services and companies. Surely the outage would affect all or nothing.

The reason for this is TfLs iBus upload portal system - can't remember what it is called as it has changed from Caesar - is still compromised by the ongoing cyber attack. This system is what allows the buses to track and for TfL to monitor service performance. Routes that change operator, or have new schedules implemented (say perhaps increased or decreased frequencies) for the foreseeable will not be able to poll correctly. Route 4 in this case had a new schedule introduced in the last fortnight which saw evening frequencies increased from every 20 to every 12 minutes and so will not poll until this cyber attack is resolved.

The W9 which moved from Stagecoach (following Sullivan's throw back of the contract) to Metroline a few weeks ago is another such example of this, since Metroline took over it is not polling and I am also sure the announcements on the bus are not working either as an unintended consequence of this.

 

[matt_world2004]

The reason for this is TfLs iBus upload portal system - can't remember what it is called as it has changed from Caesar - is still compromised by the ongoing cyber attack. This system is what allows the buses to track and for TfL to monitor service performance. Routes that change operator, or have new schedules implemented (say perhaps increased or decreased frequencies) for the foreseeable will not be able to poll correctly. Route 4 in this case had a new schedule introduced in the last fortnight which saw evening frequencies increased from every 20 to every 12 minutes and so will not poll until this cyber attack is resolved.

The W9 which moved from Stagecoach (following Sullivan's throw back of the contract) to Metroline a few weeks ago is another such example of this, since Metroline took over it is not polling and I am also sure the announcements on the bus are not working either as an unintended consequence of this.

Adiona I believe it's called.

 

[Goldfish62]

Adiona I believe it's called.

That's the one.

 

[dub]

has anybody seen this version of ibus before? very much not the correct route or time but i was intrigued...

 

[Busoccultation]

has anybody seen this version of ibus before? very much not the correct route or time but i was intrigued...

Yes, I saw one on a new BZL on the 58, very much got full of teething issues as you say with the route and time on the display.

 

[MotCO]

Is there any update on when the 358's ieTram buses will start? I read that when Go-Ahead take over the North Kent Fasttrack routes in November, they will initially use the Citaros currently used on the 358 until their own ieTrams are ready. November is not that far away, and I assume that the buses will be spruced up for their new role, so surely the ieTrams on the 358 will be very soon.

 

[Edsmith]

Is there any update on when the 358's ieTram buses will start? I read that when Go-Ahead take over the North Kent Fasttrack routes in November, they will initially use the Citaros currently used on the 358 until their own ieTrams are ready. November is not that far away, and I assume that the buses will be spruced up for their new role, so surely the ieTrams on the 358 will be very soon.

"Any day now" according to a driver but they've been saying that for a couple of months now.

Today's tender results from LOTS:



With route 312 among the latest to join the queue for (re)electrification, what of the decade-old Metrocities? Obviously they won't be back on the 312 and I presume they're still in storage, but would be interested to know if - 7 months since their withdrawal - a decision on their fate is close at hand.

Existing diesels for the ex-Sullivan 217 is no surprise but a one-year contract is shorter than I was expecting.

I doubt if the Metrocities from the 312 will ever see service again.

 

[capitalpotter]

"Any day now" according to a driver but they've been saying that for a couple of months now.


I doubt if the Metrocities from the 312 will ever see service again.

They're all still parked up in beddington. You'd of thought they'd of been cascaded to another area or sold by now

 

[PGAT]

They're all still parked up in beddington. You'd of thought they'd of been cascaded to another area or sold by now

Not really surprising they are quite worthless now

 

[MotCO]

The first BD11 we know of has been registered (EBD8:LF74TZJ)

No glazed staircase? Maybe there are some batteries there.

 

[hassaanhc]

The first BD11 we know of has been registered (EBD8:LF74TZJ)

Posting the original link would have been a good idea…

Photo from Instagram: RandomBusesGirl

#RandomBuses AlίsҺα on Instagram: "A visitor at NX yesterday. A sign of things to come…! -------------------------------- Go-Ahead London: EBD8 | LF74TZJ #GALSNAPS **This images may not be reproduced, copied, transmitted or manipulated in any way w

142 likes, 25 comments - randombusesgirl on October 19, 2024: "A visitor at NX yesterday. A sign of things to come…! -------------------------------- Go-Ahead London: EBD8 | LF74TZJ #GALSNAPS **This images may not be reproduced, copied, transmitted or manipulated in any way without the prior...

www.instagram.com

 

[joieman]

No glazed staircase? Maybe there are some batteries there.

I never noticed that before. But surely the batteries are under the stairs? Putting them in the walls sounds like an exceedingly daft idea. My guess is that whoever is buying these is just being stingy.

 

[MotCO]

I never noticed that before. But surely the batteries are under the stairs? Putting them in the walls sounds like an exceedingly daft idea. My guess is that whoever is buying these is just being stingy.

Well, maybe the wiring rather than the actual batteries, or maybe coolers etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

I never noticed that before. But surely the batteries are under the stairs? Putting them in the walls sounds like an exceedingly daft idea. My guess is that whoever is buying these is just being stingy.

Glazed staircases haven't been specified for a few years. It's simply to make more advertising space available.

 

[FOH]

I sat on Baker St today watching numerous refurbished 139s go past pondering why all the black window surrounds have been painted red. It just looks odd but perhaps I am just used to the OEM look ...

 

[joieman]

Glazed staircases haven't been specified for a few years. It's simply to make more advertising space available.

See what I mean? That is the operator being stingy!

 

[Goldfish62]

See what I mean? That is the operator being stingy!

More advertising revenue enables tender costs to be lower which means TfL's costs are lower, so it's perfectly understandable. Glazed staircases are rarely used outside London as well for the same reason.

I do wish TfL would ban those awful "Super T" ads, though. The ones that take up window space and make the lower deck dark and gloomy.

I sat on Baker St today watching numerous refurbished 139s go past pondering why all the black window surrounds have been painted red. It just looks odd but perhaps I am just used to the OEM look ...

They look horrendous. It's done by Metroline's central works at Perivale, who would probably also spray the windows red if they thought they could get away with it. Notably, those ones that Metroline sent to Thorntons for refurb came back with the black intact.

 

[MotCO]

No glazed staircase? Maybe there are some batteries there.

There is a picture in Buses magazine this month of the BD11 which was launched in London earlier this year. It had a glazed staircase.

 

[Goldfish62]

No glazed staircase? Maybe there are some batteries there.

If there were batteries there there'd be no stairs!

None of the post 2021 E400EVs, Electroliners or BZLs have glazed staircases.

As I said earlier, it's to allow fitting of the T-advert frame.

 

[FOH]

They look horrendous. It's done by Metroline's central works at Perivale, who would probably also spray the windows red if they thought they could get away with it. Notably, those ones that Metroline sent to Thorntons for refurb came back with the black intact.

A ha! Thanks. That explains why they look so odd. Plenty of other refurbs are roaming the streets looking fine. Red paint must be cheaper than black

 

[Goldfish62]

A ha! Thanks. That explains why they look so odd. Plenty of other refurbs are roaming the streets looking fine. Red paint must be cheaper than black

I just don't think they can be bothered with appearance. Just spray the whole thing red, job done. Just look at the interiors of Metroline's new buses compared with that of other London operators - minimum done to meet the spec.

 

[MotCO]

This doesn't really matter though because the new BYD BD11 which Go-Ahead have seemed to ordered loads of allegedly has 400 miles of range

I actually saw two new BYD BD11s, in Go-Ahead London livery, eastbound on the M25 near Reigate today, presumably on delivery.