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London Overground line names announced

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NorthKent1989

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Please can you explain this. I don't know why they didn't chose Brunel but did chose Windrush.

Read my post above


Can you explain why?

I mean, it’s pretty self explanatory, what relevance does it have to the local area? The suffrage movement was up and down the country was it not? Its meaningless
And yet he wins elections in London.............

And the Tories have won the last four elections, it doesn’t make them good at what they do.
 
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Dr_Paul

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But it does go through Mildmay Park which once had a station of that name
Yes, there's a certain incongruity about having a line named after a station on it which closed 90 years ago, in 1934! And how is it pronounced? My dad's family came from Dalston, the next station along the line, and they always pronounced it 'Marmay'. The old name, the North London Line, was perfectly good, there was no need to change it: it went around the northern side of London.

The Goblin Line was a perfectly good name, and a genuinely popular one in that it was devised by people who used it. I understand that the Bakerloo Line emerged in the same way, and the company who owned it only grudgingly accepted it as the line's actual name.
 

londonteacher

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This thread is amazing. A mix of right wing crying woke, the left applauding the names, and the centre actually having a discussion.

The names are good. Needed? Probably not. London has coped ever since the introduction of the Overground.
 

bramling

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How does this activity breach that requirement?

Because it strikes me as a rather narrow-minded policy designed to promote political matters, which as well as being divisive is also costing money which could be better invested elsewhere.

Please can you explain this. I don't know why they didn't chose Brunel but did chose Windrush.

Most of these routes have already-established names, the East London and North London lines in particular. Why could these not be used, rather than using this as an opportunity to promote people issues.

And yet he wins elections in London.............

That one is sadly obvious, namely that the other parties keep fielding horrific candidates.

The name of the line cant hurt me, doesn't reduce my value as a person or denigrate me in any way unlike Thatcher and her policies ;)

This is something of an aside, but at least you would have had the opportunity to vote against Thatcher at a ballot box. Neither of us have that opportunity in respect of the London mayoralty. In my view transport in London, amongst other issues, is of national importance and salience.
 

JaJaWa

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Sharing the official map files

London’s Overground lines to be given new names and colours in historic change to capital’s transport network​

15 February 2024
For the first time ever, each of London's six Overground lines will be represented by a new name and line colour
"The London Overground is one of the most successful railways in the country and has grown to carry more than three million customers a week"
Andy Lord
London's Transport Commissioner
  • The new names have been chosen through engagement with customers, stakeholders, historians, industry experts and local communities
  • New names, line colours and maps will make it easier for customers to navigate the London Overground and further build ridership, while celebrating London's diverse communities and histories
In a historic re-imagining of London's public transport network, each of London's six overground lines will for the first time ever be given a unique name and line colour. This significant change, which will include a major update to London's world-famous Tube map, will make it easier for customers to navigate London's transport network while also celebrating the city's diverse culture and history.
Research by Transport for London (TfL) has shown that some customers find the London Overground network confusing and would find it easier to navigate if it wasn't one single colour and name.
Each route will be represented by a new line name and colour on the Tube map, on train line diagrams, at stations and on digital journey planning tools, such as TfL Go.  The much-loved orange roundel will continue to be used across the London Overground network.
The new line names are:
  • The Lioness line: Euston to Watford Junction. The Lioness line, which runs through Wembley, honours the historic achievements and lasting legacy created by the England women's football team that continues to inspire and empower the next generation of women and girls in sport. It will be yellow parallel lines on the map.
  • The Mildmay line: Stratford to Richmond/Clapham Junction. The Mildmay line, which runs through Dalston, honours the small charitable hospital in Shoreditch that has cared for Londoners over many years, notably its pivotal role in the HIV/AIDS crisis in the 1980s, which made it the valued and respected place it is for the LGBTQ+ community today. It will be blue parallel lines on the map.
  • The Windrush line: Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction/New Cross/Crystal Palace/West Croydon. The Windrush line runs through areas with strong ties to Caribbean communities today, such as Dalston Junction, Peckham Rye and West Croydon and honours the Windrush generation who continue to shape and enrich London's cultural and social identity today. It will be red parallel lines on the map.
  • The Weaver line: Liverpool Street to Cheshunt/Enfield Town/Chingford. The Weaver line runs through Liverpool Street, Spitalfields, Bethnal Green and Hackney - areas of London known for their textile trade, shaped over the centuries by diverse migrant communities and individuals. It will be maroon parallel lines on the map.   
  • The Suffragette line: Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside. The Suffragette line celebrates how the working-class movement in the East End, fought for votes for woman and paved the way for women's rights. The line runs to Barking, home of the longest surviving Suffragette Annie Huggett, who died at 103. It will be green parallel lines on the map.  
  • The Liberty line: Romford to Upminster. The Liberty line celebrates the freedom that is a defining feature of London and references the historical independence of the people of Havering, through which it runs. It will be grey parallel lines on the map.
Stakeholders, customers, historians, industry experts and communities have played a key role in suggesting the new names through independent engagement, which took place ahead of the decision for the final six names. This was key for the Mayor, as London's diverse history and culture have always played a significant role in shaping the city and it was important for the line names, which will be used for years to come, to reflect this.
The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan said: "This is a hugely exciting moment, transforming how we think about London's transport network.
"Giving each of the Overground lines distinct colours and identities will make it simpler and easier for passengers to get around. In re-imagining London's tube map, we are also honouring and celebrating different parts of London's unique local history and culture.
"The new names and colours have been chosen through engagement with passengers, historians and local communities, reflecting the heritage and diversity of our amazing city." 
Andy Lord, London's Transport Commissioner, said: "The London Overground is one of the most successful railways in the country and has grown to carry more than three million customers a week. The network, which has grown quite considerably since 2007, is currently shown as a complicated network of orange on route maps.   This can be confusing for customers less familiar with the network and could be a barrier for some wanting to use the London Overground. These new names and line colours will simplify the maps and routes for our customers, and it is hoped it will encourage more people to make the most of our services.  It is also a great way to tell the stories of some important parts of London's cultural diversity."
Mark Bullingham, Chief Executive Officer for The Football Association, said: "We're so pleased to see the Mayor of London and Transport for London recognise the historic achievements of our England women's team with the newly named Lioness line. The line honours the incredible victory in the UEFA Women's EURO in 2022 at Wembley Stadium connected by EE, and the lasting legacy this team is creating in inspiring the next generation."
Geoff Coleman, Chief Executive Officer for Mildmay Mission Hospital, said: "We are deeply honoured that the Mildmay line was chosen as one of the new London Overground lines names in recognition of the work of the dedicated doctors, nurses and support staff at the Mildmay Hospital.  From its humble origins in the 1860s - serving the poorest people of the East End - to its pivotal role during the HIV/AIDS crisis in the 80s and 90s, Mildmay has evolved into an internationally renowned rehab centre, and our dedicated team continues to serve people from across London. More than just tracks and stations, the Mildmay line symbolises a journey of acceptance, love, and belonging - a vibrant thread connecting our collective past, present, and future."
Arthur Torrington CBE, Co-founder and Director of the Windrush Foundation, said: "Windrush Foundation congratulates Transport for London for creating a new interest in travel on the Windrush line as part of the London Overground line naming project. We are reminded of the iconic journey of Empire Windrush and the contributions the Caribbean community have made to the capital over many decades. We are pleased to be recognised this way and look forward to seeing Londoners using the Windrush line."
James Gaselee, Clerk for Worshipful Company of Weavers, said: "We are delighted that one of the newly named London Overground lines will be called the Weaver line in recognition of the silk weaving trade that was centred on Spitalfields; this is not however purely historic as the name of the line will also shine a light on the silk weaving, textile and fashion industries that continue to flourish in London and across the country".
Jemima Olchawski, Chief Executive of the Fawcett Society, said: "We owe so much to the courageous suffragettes and suffragists who campaigned hard and at significant personal cost for women to have the vote and we at Fawcett are delighted that their activism is being recognised by TfL. We hope that commuters on the Suffragette line will pause to think about these amazing women and the work they did to build our democracy. The Fawcett Society, founded by Millicent Fawcett in 1866, and strengthened by our members today is proud to continue this legacy of feminist campaigning for a more equal society. The naming of the Suffragette line is a wonderful way to pay tribute to the women who have gone before us and to inspire the next generation of feminist campaigners, as our work isn't yet done!"
Julie Frost, BID Director for Romford BID, said: "The Romford BID welcome the announcement that the Romford to Upminster branch line now has a new name; the Liberty line. This is a very fitting name as it speaks to our Borough's centuries old status as a Royal Liberty. Back then, this shared status helped to bound our different communities together. What better way to keep alive the spirit of this association than by renaming a key piece of our local transport infrastructure.  We hope passengers will be further encouraged to use the new Liberty line to come and see all the many things we have on offer in Romford".
London Overground first began in 2007 when TfL took over four under-used suburban railway lines. The network has since grown, meaning it has now become represented by a spaghetti of orange on the Tube maps. The Mayor was committed to help simplify this for customers with a new line name and colour for each line, and with names chosen to showcases London's rich history, heritage and diversity.

Notes to Editor
  • Further information about the London Overground line naming programme is available here - https://tfl.gov.uk/naming-overground
  • London Overground is today one of the top performing railways carrying more than three million customers a week, with more than 100 miles of railway, serving 113 stations and all nine London fare zones. Since its formation, it has expanded, improved connectivity for millions of people and supported new jobs, homes and economic growth.
  • TfL will now start the process of rebranding the line names across London's transport network with the full roll out expected to be completed in one go by the end of the year. This includes an updated Tube map, a refreshed London Overground network map and a number of on-network assets including way finding signage at all 113 stations. Additional map will also be updated including the step-free Tube map, Rail & Tube map, large print and black and white Tube map for those with visual impairments.
  • Careful validation and testing were undertaken to ensure the line colour selection was as inclusive as possible. This included active consideration of those with visual impairments, for example those with colour blindness.  Engagement also took place with TfL's Independent Disability Advisory Group (IDAG), as well as accessibility and inclusion stakeholders through TfL's Inclusive Transport Forum.
  • Throughout this summer, TfL will engage with Londoners and local communities about the new line names and how they can help tell some of the important stories of London's rich cultural diversity behind the line names.
  • The independent research and naming process was undertaken by DNCO, a creative agency specialising in place branding and naming. They led a programme of engagement and co-creation, working with customers, creative and community groups, TfL stakeholders and their partners, and industry professionals and staff: providing invaluable insight into London's diverse histories and untold stories. DNCO then used insights and conclusions drawn from this research phase to generate names for each of the lines, which were then taken forward to stakeholder decision making.
Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...istoric-change-to-capital-s-transport-network
 

Attachments

  • London Overground map - Autumn 2024.pdf
    1.3 MB · Views: 29
  • Tube map Autumn - 2024.pdf
    1.5 MB · Views: 34

DjU

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Didn’t suggest I was involved in it, but the current political climate dictates that anything after a “white male” needs to be “decolonised”
So you don't know why they didn't choose Brunel. Much as I thought.

Ah yes because we can *only* name things after white men otherwise its 'woke' - white men being the only acceptable thing to name things after.
 
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Wonder what will happen with the map with all the NR lines on it. It was a mess as it was

So you don't know why they didn't choose Brunel. Much as I thought.

Ah yes because we can *only* name things after white men otherwise its 'woke' - white men being the only acceptable thing to name things after.
Nobody said that. Seems a weird angle to take when not a single line is currently named after a white male.
 

DjU

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Yes, there's a certain incongruity about having a line named after a station on it which closed 90 years ago, in 1934!
Surely no less incongruous than the Mildmay Hospital being called the Mildmay despite being miles from... Mildmay
 

NorthKent1989

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So you don't know why they didn't choose Brunel. Much as I thought.

Ah yes because we can *only* name things after white men otherwise its 'woke' - white men being the only acceptable thing to name things after.

Anymore than we have to name things that benefit only a small section of society, Did I suggest we name things after white men only? You keep putting words into my mouth, I’m only saying the Brunel (who basically we have to thank for the Thames tunnel the East London line runs through today) wasn’t chosen because of the current political climate.
 

NorthKent1989

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This thread is amazing. A mix of right wing crying woke, the left applauding the names, and the centre actually having a discussion.

The names are good. Needed? Probably not. London has coped ever since the introduction of the Overground.

You don’t have to be left or right to know that Lioness as a line name is utter tripe.
 

DjU

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Wonder what will happen with the map with all the NR lines on it. It was a mess as it was


Nobody said that. Seems a weird angle to take when not a single line is currently named after a white male.
The exact post that was in response to was to them saying things have to be moved away from being name "white male" and decolonised.

Its pretty clear - though misreading post seems to be your forte.
 

Busaholic

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

Yet another comical waste of £4m from TfL.
Might have been better spent on giving their staff a better wage rise to try to avert the walkouts planned to start on the 19th.
 

norbitonflyer

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Needed? Probably not. London has coped ever since the introduction of the Overground.
Coped, but badly. A rainbow diagram simoly saying "London Overground part suspended" is pretty useless when there is only a one in six chance of it affecting the line you want to use.
And the confusing tangle of unconnected lines all in the same colour in NE London ("explosion in a spaghetti factory") makes navigating the network very difficult.
Rather different on this side of London - all twenty lines are represented on the map, but only because there is a huge empty space in which to insert the key. (Interesting question - if Grayling hadn't prevented Boris taking on the SW suburban lines - as he didn't want a future Labour mayor controlling the services to his Epsom constituency, what name would they have been given?)
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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What agenda is being furthered here?
Its blatantly obvious that they’ve not chosen them because they’re good names or to honour history, but because they link to minority groups and they know that will appease progressives that aren’t satisfied that things are diverse enough, thereby promoting themselves as inclusive and progressive without actually taking any genuinely helpful action. Similarly to how the BBC and ITV had a moral panic and mass hired TV anchors of ethnic minority groups not long ago just to stop people saying only white men read the news.

There’s nothing wrong with that (although re. the example there, I personally would not want to be hired purely to make the employer look good, I’d be insulted to be take on for anything other than my abilities and suitability) but it cannot be denied that it’s clear virtue signalling by TfL to make the Mayor look good. Anyone who disagrees is in denial.
 

TRAX

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Its blatantly obvious that they’ve not chosen them because they’re good names or to honour history, but because they link to minority groups and they know that will appease progressives that aren’t satisfied that things are diverse enough, thereby promoting themselves as inclusive and progressive without actually taking any genuinely helpful action. Similarly to how the BBC and ITV had a moral panic and mass hired TV anchors of ethnic minority groups not long ago just to stop people saying only white men read the news.

There’s nothing wrong with that (although re. the example there, I personally would not want to be hired purely to make the employer look good, I’d be insulted to be take on for anything other than my abilities and suitability) but it cannot be denied that it’s clear virtue signalling by TfL to make the Mayor look good. Anyone who disagrees is in denial.
Yup
 

DjU

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Did I suggest we name things after white men only? You keep putting words into my mouth,
It was hyperbole, but you fundamentally said people are avoiding specifically naming things after white men - if you are going to pick a lane at least comit to it...
political climate dictates that anything after a “white male” needs to be “decolonised”
wasn’t chosen because of the current political climate.
I mean you even repeat it! You are sure they didn't name it that because they can't name things after white men...
 

bramling

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This thread is amazing. A mix of right wing crying woke, the left applauding the names, and the centre actually having a discussion.

The names are good. Needed? Probably not. London has coped ever since the introduction of the Overground.

Yes it’s hardly a good use of several million pounds, especially given TFL’s well-known financial problems. Though I do acknowledge it was in Khan’s manifesto, perhaps it shouldn’t have been?
 

NorthKent1989

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I mean you even repeat it! You are sure they didn't name it that because they can't name things after white men..

How does this exactly prove that I said things should be named after white men only? This is a lame attempt at a gotcha moment it’s utterly ridiculous.

There has been a trend to “decolonise” curriculums and what not which relates to the achievements of white men in the past, naming the ELL after Brunel would have made far more sense than to name it Windrush.


It’s commit
 

birchesgreen

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I think some folks are taking the names a little too seriously.

The important thing is that the unwieldly map should hopefully now be a lot easier to follow.
 
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You dont have to be sexist to not like the lioness line name. If the mens team won the world cup it would be cringe to name something after them too
 

Tetchytyke

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Yes it’s hardly a good use of several million pounds, especially given TFL’s well-known financial problems.
The cost is the same irrespective of what name you choose. And splitting out the Overground spaghetti is long overdue.
Its blatantly obvious that they’ve not chosen them because they’re good names or to honour history, but because they link to minority groups
Do they?

And even if they do, what's wrong with that?
 

jon81uk

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Similarly to how the BBC and ITV had a moral panic and mass hired TV anchors of ethnic minority groups not long ago just to stop people saying only white men read the news.
George Alagiah read the six o'clock news from 2007 to 2022.
Trevor McDonald presented News at Ten from 1992 to 2005.
Moira Stuart presented various BBC news bulletins from 1981 to 2007.
Clive Myrie started on BBC news in 1996.
Naga Munchetty started on BBC news in 2010.

Where is the recent mass hire of ethnic minority groups? Seems like they have had many people that aren't white men reading the news for 40 years.
 

Tetchytyke

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You dont have to be sexist to not like the lioness line name.
Depends why you don't like it.

If you don't like it because it's naff- fine. I'd probably agree- it's the weakest of all of them, although it does have a nice alliteration.
 
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