London Transport Traction Group; Project 483

[61653 HTAFC]

It would be quite amusing if a self-powered 483 manages to carry fare-paying passengers before a 769 does...

 

[SER 235]

It would be quite amusing if a self-powered 483 manages to carry fare-paying passengers before a 769 does...

The way its going with class 769's, it might just happen

 

[trebor79]

Isn't the issue in part due to the trains? I remember an account being added to the "Future of the Island line" on this forum regarding lateral movement of the bogies, and the need to damp them. The train is running fine, then suddenly a graunching noise, and the carriage sways.

It's a comically rough ride, particularly between Sandown and Ryde. Mainly up and down, I only noticed a lot of sway on one section. That said I think a lot of the "bounciness" comes from the sprung seats. If you stand up everyone is bouncing up and down but as a standee it's nowhere near as hard to stay upright as it looks.
Best part is mile after mile of jointed track!

 

[trebor79]

I personally feel that heritage railway electrification is, sadly, but a dream currently. Hopefully that may change in the future.

For a relatively lightweight unit such as a 483 we feel that accommodating batteries in the first seating bay behind the 'D' end car's cab (The D end is the one which has the compressor on it), sealing this off as a battery compartment. In order to create a degree of separation between this compartment and the public we envisage that there would be a second partition after the first set of doors to create a van area. If it makes it any easier to visualise, the basic layout wouldn't be dissimilar to one of the BR 'Thumper' DMs - Cab, then the 'power' bit, then a van and finally the passenger space.

Have you considered putting the batteries in a trailer? Perhaps one mocked up to look like a car? I think the batteries and associated kit are going to take up far more space than you imagine, and it will kind of ruin the D end car too. Can the unit take the weight of the batteries, especially concentrated in one area?
I was peripherally involved with the restoration and operation of a 1913 Siemens electric locomotive over 20 years ago. In that case we restored a contemporaneous coal waggon which held the batteries, and was semi-permanently coupled to the loco. Worked really well and looked right too.

 

[lttgroup]

That's Harton E4, I assume? Very nice job on her too!

We received the dimensions of the battery unit today; 800mm (Height) × 2000mm × 2000mm so easily able to be contained in the front end of the car, especially if that's then divided into two battery units. It even fits below window level, too, which means the external appearance ought to remain unaltered.

 

[Peter C]

We received the dimensions of the battery unit today; 800mm (Height) × 2000mm × 2000mm so easily able to be contained in the front end of the car, especially if that's then divided into two battery units. It even fits below window level, too, which means the external appearance ought to remain unaltered.

Sounds promising. I just wonder if having a large battery in the one cab will make operating the unit a bit difficult? Or have I missed something there?

-Peter

 

[trebor79]

That's Harton E4, I assume? Very nice job on her too!

We received the dimensions of the battery unit today; 800mm (Height) × 2000mm × 2000mm so easily able to be contained in the front end of the car, especially if that's then divided into two battery units. It even fits below window level, too, which means the external appearance ought to remain unaltered.

Yes Harton E4.
I'm forgetting battery technology will have come on in the intervening two decades! That's still going to weight a couple of tonnes at least isn't it?

 

[lttgroup]

The batteries won't be in the cab, instead taking up the leading part of the passenger saloon, over the bogie. Obviously this will have implications for weight distribution and we are currently looking to address those.

 

[Peter C]

The batteries won't be in the cab, instead taking up the leading part of the passenger saloon, over the bogie. Obviously this will have implications for weight distribution and we are currently looking to address those.

Ah OK. That makes more sense

-Peter

 

[trebor79]

The batteries won't be in the cab, instead taking up the leading part of the passenger saloon, over the bogie. Obviously this will have implications for weight distribution and we are currently looking to address those.

What about distributing the batteries throughout the train? You could put packs of cells under the seat, for example?

 

[lttgroup]

Given the high voltage involved, the slim potential fire hazard, and the fact that there is already other stuff under some seats we deemed it to be safer and more practical to create a dedicated battery compartment, separated from the passenger compartment with its own access. This will also make maintenance easier and potentially also make failures in service easier to deal with.

 

[lttgroup]

I should add the caveat, however, that all of this is subject to change at this early stage. Working with our likely supplier we might even be able to find a solution that allows the batteries to be located below floor level. At this stage, however, we feel that may be too ambitious.

 

[lttgroup]

With class 483 withdrawals a little over a month away, the London Transport Traction Group are delighted to announce that this evening we were officially informed by South Western Railway that we have successfully secured a Class 483 unit for preservation. A representative from South Western Railway told us;

"I can confirm that you will have a unit for preservation. I can’t confirm which unit yet as the preservation committee have not given me a final answer but it is highly likely to be 483006 and if it is not then it will be 483008 (both of which are currently operational and in service).

In terms of timing – I expect we will be in a position to release the unit for collection around the end of the line closure in March."

This is truly wonderful news, but also represents only the first step in our journey that we hope will soon see a class 483 unit, cosmetically restored to London Transport condition, running on the Epping Ongar Railway under its own power and visiting galas around the country, taking a tube train where none has ever gone before and introducing the joy of the '38 stock to new audiences.

To do this we require your help. Our pledge scheme has been very successful, but we still require support. Earlier this week we opened up membership and donation options, which may be found on our website - www.lttractiongroup.co.uk

Although these are difficult times for many, we would greatly appreciate any assistance that you may be able to offer to our exciting and innovative project that has the potential to lead the way in electric railway preservation.

If you have any queries, please feel free to contact me by email; [email protected]

 

[Journeyman]

I'd like to see this project raising the profile of EMU preservation, because if battery operation is proven feasible, there's potentially quite a few EMUs out there that could once again run under their own power on heritage railways.

 

[reddragon]

I'd like to see this project raising the profile of EMU preservation, because if battery operation is proven feasible, there's potentially quite a few EMUs out there that could once again run under their own power on heritage railways.

There already is no reason why a battery class 419, a Class 33 or 73 couldn't already operate a Southern unit today!

 

[Journeyman]

There already is no reason why a battery class 419, a Class 33 or 73 couldn't already operate a Southern unit today!

I'd love to see the 2-BIL run solo. That could be done quite easily with battery technology.

 

[43096]

I'd like to see this project raising the profile of EMU preservation, because if battery operation is proven feasible, there's potentially quite a few EMUs out there that could once again run under their own power on heritage railways.

A 769 is the obvious “EMU” preservation project when the time comes - ready fitted with a power supply.

 

[Mothball]

Fantastic news! I see a lot of comments essentially saying " There is already a 38 stock preserved operationally, dont need another" But i couldn't disagree more. If the ambition of battery operation is achieved, not only would it be a big step for EMU preservation as mentioned, but will potentially allow people like me, fascinated in the Underground and its stock but who rarely make it down to London/The island the chance to sample the unit should it be loaned to railways further north.
I would like to see it kept in Island condition, with the operational 1938 stock representing original condition, it would be nice to see the 483 in either "as withdrawn" condition or even NSE.

 

[Tony2]

With class 483 withdrawals a little over a month away, the London Transport Traction Group are delighted to announce that this evening we were officially informed by South Western Railway that we have successfully secured a Class 483 unit for preservation. A representative from South Western Railway told us;

"I can confirm that you will have a unit for preservation. I can’t confirm which unit yet as the preservation committee have not given me a final answer but it is highly likely to be 483006 and if it is not then it will be 483008 (both of which are currently operational and in service).

In terms of timing – I expect we will be in a position to release the unit for collection around the end of the line closure in March."

This is truly wonderful news, but also represents only the first step in our journey that we hope will soon see a class 483 unit, cosmetically restored to London Transport condition, running on the Epping Ongar Railway under its own power and visiting galas around the country, taking a tube train where none has ever gone before and introducing the joy of the '38 stock to new audiences.

To do this we require your help. Our pledge scheme has been very successful, but we still require support. Earlier this week we opened up membership and donation options, which may be found on our website - www.lttractiongroup.co.uk

Although these are difficult times for many, we would greatly appreciate any assistance that you may be able to offer to our exciting and innovative project that has the potential to lead the way in electric railway preservation.

If you have any queries, please feel free to contact me by email; [email protected]

That's fantastic news, I had what I thought would be my last runs on both 006 and 008 last year. These were particularly bouncy and memorable trips! It's good to know that one of these will still be around in the future. Best of luck with the project.

 

[45669]

The 1938 stock has always been bouncy. Back in the early 1960s, I used to commute into London on the Piccadilly Line which, at that time, used mostly the pre'36 Standard Stock. However, there were a handful of '38 stock trains on the Piccadilly and when one of those hove into view I knew that it would be more difficult to read my book or magazine than when riding in the more usual Standard Stock. If I hadn't been late for work already, I'd have waited for the next train!

The riding seemed to improve as we got nearer to London though, as the extra weight of additional passengers joining the train at the various stations en route made it steadier.

 

[birchesgreen]

I'd rather it was preserved in the dinosaur livery

 

[Journeyman]

I'd rather it was preserved in the dinosaur livery

That truly was Island Line's rock bottom.

 

[Cowley]

That truly was Island Line's rock bottom.

Don’t be such an old fossil.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Sadly 006 has given up the ghost today, not a simple fault to fix I understand. 008 holding the fort on the island.

 

[lttgroup]

Quite right, sadly. Not a fatal fault, I gather, but equally one that is highly unlikely to get repaired before the units are withdrawn in January as it requires the removal of wheelsets.

 

[Jozhua]

Hate to say it........ So the "exciting" announcement was you're in negotiations to take a train you haven't got yet to a railway you haven't got an agreed deal with yet.

Piece of advice: announce something when you have something definite to announce, and don't trail it in advance, even less so as "big news" or "exciting". Don't feel the need to make announcements during a negotiation process - only the relevant people need to know where the negotiations are at and who they are with.

Hate to say it...but no-one's forcing you to read this

With class 483 withdrawals a little over a month away, the London Transport Traction Group are delighted to announce that this evening we were officially informed by South Western Railway that we have successfully secured a Class 483 unit for preservation. A representative from South Western Railway told us;

"I can confirm that you will have a unit for preservation. I can’t confirm which unit yet as the preservation committee have not given me a final answer but it is highly likely to be 483006 and if it is not then it will be 483008 (both of which are currently operational and in service).

In terms of timing – I expect we will be in a position to release the unit for collection around the end of the line closure in March."

This is truly wonderful news, but also represents only the first step in our journey that we hope will soon see a class 483 unit, cosmetically restored to London Transport condition, running on the Epping Ongar Railway under its own power and visiting galas around the country, taking a tube train where none has ever gone before and introducing the joy of the '38 stock to new audiences.

To do this we require your help. Our pledge scheme has been very successful, but we still require support. Earlier this week we opened up membership and donation options, which may be found on our website - www.lttractiongroup.co.uk

Although these are difficult times for many, we would greatly appreciate any assistance that you may be able to offer to our exciting and innovative project that has the potential to lead the way in electric railway preservation.

If you have any queries, please feel free to contact me by email; [email protected]

Fantastic!

Fantastic news! I see a lot of comments essentially saying " There is already a 38 stock preserved operationally, dont need another" But i couldn't disagree more. If the ambition of battery operation is achieved, not only would it be a big step for EMU preservation as mentioned, but will potentially allow people like me, fascinated in the Underground and its stock but who rarely make it down to London/The island the chance to sample the unit should it be loaned to railways further north.
I would like to see it kept in Island condition, with the operational 1938 stock representing original condition, it would be nice to see the 483 in either "as withdrawn" condition or even NSE.

I agree, plus it is quite an interesting unit in the fact it had a life after the London underground, on a very unique and fascinating line. Then there's the fact that it has run on mainline service at the age of 80! Truly impressive, older than most of us will be expected to live to, although I've got a few decades left to discover the fountain of eternal youth... maybe I'll be able to ride the 38 stock to it!

 

[43096]

Hate to say it...but no-one's forcing you to read this

Jeez that’s desperate, going back to find a quote from almost 5 months ago.

Besides, if you read what I actually wrote I wasn’t against the project. Good luck to them with it.

 

[lttgroup]

Jeez that’s desperate, going back to find a quote from almost 5 months ago.

Besides, if you read what I actually wrote I wasn’t against the project. Good luck to them with it.

To be absolutely honest you had a point back when you wrote that; I was new to all this and that announcement seemed exciting to me at the time; We have come a long way since then!

 

[VEP3417]

if theyre being withdrawn in January, "might" we get a little farewell if restrictions are lifted a bit more? i suppose thats big if

although i read christmas eve is probably the last working for them?

 

[TheBeard]

Doesnt a battery have to be in the underframes, and not in a unit? And don't they cost an awful lot?
Not fair to appeal for money for this without a proper engineering approved design.