If you buy a paper ticket, your contract is with MTR Corporation (Crossrail) Limited. If you use an Oyster card or contactless, your contract is jointly with MTR, TfL itself and all other TfL operators.
Oh dear. I'm afraid you're wrong on both counts. Your contract would be between you and MTR Corporation (Crossrail) Limited. Whomever you buy the ticket from is who you approach for a refund. That could be any number of companies.
So from the tfl ticket machine at Hayes. Say where does it say on the ticket machine that the contract is with MTR Crossrail limited ? The receipts for tickets I've always got from these machines have always been listed as TFL
Presumably it will tell you that the ticket is issued subject to the National Rail Conditions of Travel on the ticket machine and on the ticket itself. That's how you know.
So what the website or phoneline for buying a ticket from MTR crossrail or getting delay repay or getting a refund you know the company that apparently passengers are entering into a contract with despite not knowing the companies name.
It's very, very common for consumers to be unaware of the true name of the organisation they're contracting with. Indeed it's also common for people not to understand contracts they're agreeing to. It doesn't change the fact that they are as they are.
The point still stands though if you buy a ticket from bond Street to Reading you would be buying that ticket from a London Undegrround ticket machine or from London Underground staff . Your customer relationship is with tfl. There are also Elizabeth line only fares available from the LU ticket machines at Paddington to places like Abbey Wood and there has been for quite some time ( December 2019) yet none of the new crossrail stations have been added to the National Rail fares database
I really don't understand what the relevance of any of that is though to whether you can use a cross London transfer (if a transfer still exists) on crossrail.
You argued that the contractual relationship is who you brought the ticket from .
I'm afraid I didn't. Sorry.
So how do you enter a contract with MTR Corporation exactly. Your contract when you purchase a ticket to ride on crossrail is with rail for London they manage all customer facing elements of the relationship or contract MTR to do it on their behalf
"You can't change the constitution." Apart from all those pesky amendmentsWe aren't talking about the US constitution. If the rules don't fit the new reality then they will probably be changed.
If you buy a ticket valid on a National Rail service such as TfL Rail, the ticket will be issued subject to the National Rail Conditions of Travel. The NRCoT specifies a list of the companies with whom your contract may be in each case, and states that it is with all of the ones on which you may use the ticket.
Indeed, and I think the key point being made is that the current framework provides for a suitable solution. It's not likely to be particularly good, but, same as with Thameslink, it will work."You can't change the constitution." Apart from all those pesky amendments
Who'd have thought that something as niche as the railway terms and conditions were more sacrosanct than the US constitution!
So if MTR fails in its contracted provisions how do you get a refund for the ticket from MTR Crossrail in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Travel
The NRCoT stipulate that refunds - i.e. where you do not travel - are obtained from the retailer. But just because TfL/LUL are the retailer, that doesn't mean that travel is subject to their own Conditions of Carriage.
Not for delay repay the NCROT specifies that refunds are are from the train operating company.
Most people will claim a Service Delay Refund. Again, like sales, this will be administered by a third party and you'd get it from the TfL customer services team. It would be paid by MTR though.
Well technically there are circumstances where the NRCoT regime would be more favourable (i.e. delays that they claim are "outside their control"). But yes.
MTR doesn't pay it the fines they pay to tfl for delays are irrespective of the amount of people to claim delay repay
Compensation that is capped at the price paid for the ticket is by its very definition a refund.
Surely, for ticketing purposes, I can’t see the Elizabeth line being any different to the Overground. Oyster fares being TfL or NR scale (whichever is cheaper), National Rail tickets accepted as now, and travelcards accepted throughout in the relevant zones.
The fact that delay compensation is calculated by reference to the amount paid doesn't make it a refund, though it's obviously highly liable to cause confusion. A refund is for when you don't travel, compensation is for when you do travel but are delayed.
I think we've explained the facts as they stand and unfortunately if you're unwilling to accept them then we'll need to leave it there. There's not much to be gained by going around in circles.
That may well be the case if the delay is long enough and if the operator hasn't secured an exemption under NRCoT.
In fairness to TfL, even if they remove travelcards it will still be a lot easier to do that than travelling around a lot of the rest of the country, today I went around surrey on SWR and ended up having to buy 4 separate tickets for a total cost of around £30, and if I'm honest I did technically use some of them twice but that's because all train fares are focused on singles and returns and season tickets. We need more rangers and rovers
That's what I am aware of too
In practice that's not actually any different though is it? A paper ticket to a named station such as Woolwich Crossrail will obviously be valid, same as how a ticket to London Liverpool Street is today.
So is it your understanding that if I have an all-line rover and want to go from Shenfield to Slough that'd be allowed, but I wouldn't be able to use the same train and get off at Bond Street? A National Rail ticket from Shenfield to Slough would be OK because it'd have a maltese cross on it, presumably, so that's business as usual. Except that break of journey at Bond Street might not be allowed?
