London Victoria - how many trains per hour?

Purple Orange

Established Member
Joined
26 Dec 2019
Messages
1,389
Location
The North
Hi everyone.

Does anyone know how many trains per hour London Victorian handles (pre-covid) and how it splits between the mainlines that flow in to it?

I was looking the other day, but could only see the reduced timetable. This question came to mind as I was discussing with someone about how highly utilised the large Northern city terminus stations could be (principally Piccadilly and Lime Street) relative to their size, if infrastructure improvements away from the station took place (i.e. station throat and the lines feeding in).

Cheers

Purple Orange
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
11,109
Kent (All routes): 15tph peak, 11tph off-peak
Sussex (Slow Line): 14tph peak, 10tph off-peak
Sussex (Fast Line): 16tph peak, 14tph off-peak
 

30907

Established Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
10,292
Location
Airedale
Thanks. Does that include the metro services within Greater London?
Yes, it does. Kent and Sussex are railspeak for the two halves of the station (Chatham and Brighton in the olden days).

PS Charing Cross with 6 platforms and Cannon Street with 7 were/are busier than the Kent side of Victoria.
 

30907

Established Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
10,292
Location
Airedale
Thanks. The frequencies are not as high as I’d assumed.
They were a little bit higher in the past - I would guess at 18tph on the Kent and the Sussex slows, which is what Waterloo-Raynes Park in the peak was pre Covid, and is probably the limit for an all-stations operation on double track (Thameslink excepted).
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
11,109
They were a little bit higher in the past - I would guess at 18tph on the Kent and the Sussex slows, which is what Waterloo-Raynes Park in the peak was pre Covid, and is probably the limit for an all-stations operation on double track (Thameslink excepted).

Only reduction in recent years was the Sussex slows which reduced by (off memory) 2tph in May 2018.
 

30907

Established Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
10,292
Location
Airedale
Only reduction in recent years was the Sussex slows which reduced by (off memory) 2tph in May 2018.
My past is a lot further back :) - to the 4SUB era when the South London Line had to turn at Battersea Park in the peaks because there was no room at the inn at Vic.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
1,305
Location
London
On the Kent for off-peak I think its:

2tph Dartford
4tph Orpington / Bromley South (alternating)
2tph Ramsgate
2tph Ashford Int'l
1tph Gillingham via Denmark Hill

Add in additional Maidstone terminators, Dartford and Sheerness services in the peak.
 
Joined
18 Aug 2019
Messages
366
Location
London
Victoria Eastern itself could probably have more trains an hour running out of it, issue would be where to send them but in terms of paths out of Victoria its certainly possible.
 
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
842
Location
West Yorkshire
My suggestion for looking at pre-COVID frequencies would be to find a version of a TOC’s Wikipedia page by going on ‘view history’ and finding an edit from around mid-March 2020. Then you’ll be able to see a comprehensive list of services.
 

big all

On Moderation
Joined
23 Sep 2018
Messages
851
Location
redhill
My past is a lot further back :) - to the 4SUB era when the South London Line had to turn at Battersea Park in the peaks because there was no room at the inn at Vic.
Yes indeed there was only perhaps 3 or 4 services a day but of course that's 6- 8 trains including in and out. I was at Coulsdon North 76-79 and we certainly had one of those turns with an unusual perhaps 9 or 10 mins change end, enough to explore the station over the the more normal 3 mins change ends at Victoria :D
 

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
2,444
One Dover calls Denmark Hill, as opposed to the Gillingham (I thought).

It definitely is by far the quieter side. Brighton and Gatwick of course being heavier off and counter peak destinations - nothing comparable on that side since the boat traffic died.

Metro services are better over the years. The upping of the Herne Hill slows to 4tph, and the creeping up of the Dartford (now Gravesend) service to evening and weekend service. This line is potentially going to add 2tph to Hayes via Nunhead, so would be even more on the metro side.

But the Kent Coast side is a shell of itself.
 

Purple Orange

Established Member
Joined
26 Dec 2019
Messages
1,389
Location
The North
My suggestion for looking at pre-COVID frequencies would be to find a version of a TOC’s Wikipedia page by going on ‘view history’ and finding an edit from around mid-March 2020. Then you’ll be able to see a comprehensive list of services.

Oh I never knew you could do that! Thanks
 

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
2,444
The current Gravesend via Denmark hill used to go to Dover.

The other Dover was a portion of a Ramsgate if I remember correctly ?
Isn't Gravesend just an extension of the long-standing Victoria-Dartfords?

The Denmark Hill-calling Dover is an extended Medway service which is very slow, rather than the prime Dover service which went via Herne Hill to Bromley.
 

jfisher21

Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
182
You are right, I meant Victoria - Gillingham not Gravesend!

Actually it seems to be running back to Dover today off peak. Calling at Denmark Hill, Bromley South, St Mary Cray then every stop to Dover. A very slow ride and the only Victoria - Dover train offpeak.
 

Top