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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

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What areas did the old Lothian bus 43 route serve/do (the one that went to Haymarket)
Well there was a 43 that went from Wester Hailes to Waverley Bridge via Lanark Road, Slateford Road, Fountainbridge, Johnstone Terrace and High Street. This was withdrawn around 1985 I believe. However this route doesn't include Haymarket so maybe it isn't what you're looking for.
I can't be certain but there may have been a 43/44 variation within Balerno for a while in the mid to late 1980s, with one going around Cockburn Crescent like the 63 and 44 do nowadays. The 61 for Johnsburn Road and Cockburn Crescent (see post above from @duncanp ) was withdrawn at deregulation.
Anyway, if true that would have gone through Haymarket.
 
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duncanp

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Yes there was a 43/44 variation in Currie and Balerno.

This started at deregulation, when the 61 was withdrawn, and the Lothian bus service 44 was extended from Juniper Green to Balerno to compete directly with Eastern Scottish.

In Balerno, Lothian Bus 44 ran via Bavelaw Road and Mansfield Road to the terminus at Cockburn Crescent.

Lothian bus 43 was a variant of the 44 which ran via Johnsburn Road to Cockburn Crescent. Both the 43 and 44 ran through the city centre to somewhere like Wallyford.
 

tbtc

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I seem to recall that the 22 went to Sighthill around that time. I was seeing someone who was at Heriot Watt in 1993, and the main daytime service was the 65. In the evenings (and possibly weekends - memories are a bit hazy) it was the 22A, which would turn right off Gorgie Road, go round the houses a bit, before rejoining the A71 and heading out to Riccarton. I honestly can't remember if it terminated there or went onto Currie afterwards.

Herriot Watt has come a long way since the '90s, when the half hourly 22 was all it had from the Sighthill direction (now there's the 25/34/35, making it a very popular terminus)!

The half hourly 65 replaced the 22, one of those things that I like, when operators introduce a new service and ensure it's got some passengers on it on day one by giving it a section of another service - the 65 was basically there as competition for the CitySprinter C5/C55s on the Lochend - A71 corridor but LRT gave it the weekday bit of the 22 beyond Sighthill so that this "new" route had some "existing" passengers.

I’d even propose bringing the 32 back and have it work off the 21 in a unique way.
<snip> </snip>

Cutting the old circulars made some sense, since it allowed Lothian to run a more reliable service, focus frequencies (and bigger vehicles) on the city centre sections, trim services in the quieter sections (e.g. the Duddingston bit of the 42/46), penetrate housing estates properly (rather than the days of the 19/39 keeping to Boswell Parkway, when the CitySprinter minibuses were actually serving the houses)... I get that... probably a handful of people and allowed some conspiracy theories about forcing people to pay twice but a positive thing overall... but then the current 21 is so unwieldy that I wonder whether it ought to be similarly trimmed.

There are faster journeys available through the city centre for a lot of the flows that the 21 does (e.g. Wester Hailes to the Infirmary must be a pretty tiny market, but the 33 runs a more direct route... Leith to the Gyle is every few minutes on the 22), so how about:

21: Run it as now from Wester Hailes/ Gyle to Leith but terminating at Restlerig (replacing the 25 from Leith to Restalrig)
25: Herriot Watt to Waterloo Place (cuts will need to be made to the overall frequency on Leith Walk anyway, and the 21 will cover the Restalrig section)
50: New service replacing the 21 from Leith to the Infirmary but starting at Ocean Terminal, giving Portobello a link to the popular shopping centre, co-ordinating with the 49 to provide a frequent service from central Leith to central Portobello (and on towards Milton Road) - much easier to -co-ordinate with the 49 when the "50" would be a much shorter route than the 21

What areas did the old Lothian bus 43 route serve/do (the one that went to Haymarket)

The version I knew in the 1980s/1990s was the same as the 44, but running via Cockburn Crescent at Balerno (in the days when the 44 only served the eastern side of Balerno) - the 43 was renumbered to 44A and then replaced by all 44 journeys doing the full loop at Balerno (EDIT - beaten to the punch by others above!)
 

DunsBus

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Just to add, when the LRT 44 was extended from Juniper Green to Balerno and from Eastfield to Wallyford at deregulation, it initially ran as limited stop services 83 and 84 during the day and as service 44 at nights and on Sundays. In Balerno, the 83 ran via Bavelaw Road with the 44 and 84 serving Cockburn Crescent. This changed in January 1987 when it became the 43/44, the 43 taking over the Cockburn Crescent section and the 44 now running via Bavelaw Road. Initially, the 43 and 44 ran in both directions but by 1993 the 43 was running only in the westbound direction, the precursor of today's Balerno loop. It became the 44A in 1999.

Well there was a 43 that went from Wester Hailes to Waverley Bridge via Lanark Road, Slateford Road, Fountainbridge, Johnstone Terrace and High Street. This was withdrawn around 1985 I believe. However this route doesn't include Haymarket so maybe it isn't what you're looking for.
Lasted until deregulation in 1986. :)
 

duncanp

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Possibly slightly off topic, but I think the current service 63 (now run by First), which was extended to Balerno last year, could be useful if the frequency was increased to at least every 20 minutes, and possibly diverted via Curriehill Station to provide a connection with the trains. The reason for saying this is that:-

  • Quite a number of university staff and students live in Currie and Balerno, so a link to Riccarton Campus would be handy. (Also handy for students wanting to visit pubs in Currie & Balerno, saving a long slow stagger back to the campus late at night) :D
  • Diverting the 63 to serve Curriehill Station would provide a useful connection to rail services, especially if the bus was timed to connect with semi fast westbound trains to Glasgow. When I lived in Balerno, it was a pain in the you know what to have to endure a long slow bus journey to Haymarket Station if I wanted to go to Glasgow, or indeed many other places in Scotland.
  • The Gyle shopping centre, the Edinburgh Park office complex, Edinburgh Park Station, the tram and the airport are all important traffic objectives, and having a reasonable connecting bus service would enable people in Balerno, Currie and students at Heriot - Watt to travel there easily. It might even be worth it diverting the 63 at The Gyle to serve the airport, and having another bus service running from Queensferry to Edinburgh Park, as I am not sure there are too many through journeys from Queensferry to Balerno.

I realise that this probably won't happen in the near future, but if you want to get people using bus services, you have to make them go where people need to get to, and at a suitably attractive frequency.
 

Edirim

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Agree with linking the 63 into Curriehill Station but given its a tendered service...it definitely won't get a frequency increase anytime soon.

The 63 going into the Airport would be too time-consuming although it could divert into the P&R like the 20 does and thus let folk connect onto the tram for onward travel (perhaps using a through ticket...)

If serving Curriehill station is desired perhaps the route from Balerno could be as present then LEFT onto Riccarton Mains Road, LEFT onto Riccarton Avenue then RIGHT onto Curriehill Road (Hail & Ride at the entrance to train station) then CONTINUE along Currehill Road to Back of HW Campus with RIGHT turn into the grounds, serving new stops near the Halls of Residence before serving the Terminus and heading out to Hermiston Park & Ride via the Research Park Grounds.
 
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Agree with linking the 63 into Curriehill Station but given its a tendered service...it definitely won't get a frequency increase anytime soon.

The 63 going into the Airport would be too time-consuming although it could divert into the P&R like the 20 does and thus let folk connect onto the tram for onward travel (perhaps using a through ticket...)

If serving Curriehill station is desired perhaps the route from Balerno could be as present then LEFT onto Riccarton Mains Road, LEFT onto Riccarton Avenue then RIGHT onto Curriehill Road (Hail & Ride at the entrance to train station) then CONTINUE along Currehill Road to Back of HW Campus with RIGHT turn into the grounds, serving new stops near the Halls of Residence before serving the Terminus and heading out to Hermiston Park & Ride via the Research Park Grounds.
Possibly, but Curriehill Station isn't exactly a long distance from bus stops on Riccarton Avenue at the moment, and entering Heriot-Watt from Curriehill Road was never really encouraged in the past. But maybe there are opportunities for changes in future, especially if new houses are built north of the station.
As you point out, the 63 is a tendered service. When Lothian Buses terminated the 63 at Hermiston I think the council subsidy was about £250k per year, and the Balerno extension has probably added 50% to that. Carting revelling students and well-heeled lecturers home from the pub may not be viewed as optimal use of tax-payers money.
 

stan68

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Am I correct in saying that Lothian have ordered some BYD ADL Enviro 400EVs, as has been posted in the manufacturers forum on this site?

Agree with linking the 63 into Curriehill Station but given its a tendered service...it definitely won't get a frequency increase anytime soon.

The 63 going into the Airport would be too time-consuming although it could divert into the P&R like the 20 does and thus let folk connect onto the tram for onward travel (perhaps using a through ticket...)

If serving Curriehill station is desired perhaps the route from Balerno could be as present then LEFT onto Riccarton Mains Road, LEFT onto Riccarton Avenue then RIGHT onto Curriehill Road (Hail & Ride at the entrance to train station) then CONTINUE along Currehill Road to Back of HW Campus with RIGHT turn into the grounds, serving new stops near the Halls of Residence before serving the Terminus and heading out to Hermiston Park & Ride via the Research Park Grounds.
I wonder if First will see sense where Lothian did not, they might try to shoehorn in some direct routes into the city centre if they could make an interchange at Hermiston P+R, which would in turn give them an opportunity to get the university students on their buses with lower fares. Come on Lothian, make a superior service! Also, does the 20 serve Gogarburn RBS under First?
 
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CN04NRJ

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Am I correct in saying that Lothian have ordered some BYD ADL Enviro 400EVs, as has been posted in the manufacturers forum on this site?


I wonder if First will see sense where Lothian did not, they might try to shoehorn in some direct routes into the city centre if they could make an interchange at Hermiston P+R, which would in turn give them an opportunity to get the university students on their buses with lower fares. Come on Lothian, make a superior service! Also, does the 20 serve Gogarburn RBS under First?

4 BYD /E400EV City.
 

GusB

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Posts relating to the 63 have been copied to the First Scotland East thread; please continue the discussion there.
 

CN04NRJ

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From the Ensign Bus newsletter :
From Lothian Buses : Volvo B7RLE’s SN04NHM / NHU / NHV / NHY / NJF / NJE / SK07CGE / CGF / CGO / CGU / CGV / CFV / CFX / CFY / CFO / CFP / CFU SN57DCO / DDF / DCU / DCY / DCZ / DDE SN58BYO / BYP / BYS / BYT. (27 in all)


Out :
Volvo B7RLEs SN58BYP / BYS : A Line coaches, Newcastle.

Volvo B7RLEs SN58BYO / BYT : Als Coaches, Liverpool.

Volvo B7RLE SK07CFP : Aintree Coaches.

Volvo B7RLE SK07CFO : Robinson Coaches, Huntingdon.

Volvo SN57DCY : Oakley Coaches , Plymouth.
 

Lothianbus703

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Something I realized today is Lothian City don't have any services numbered above 50 (Exceptions are the few services in the 60s) not saying this is a problem but after looking at services changes from the early 2000s most either got withdrawn or changed to lower numbers.
 
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Something I realized today is Lothian City don't have any services numbered above 50 (Exceptions are the few services in the 60s) not saying this is a problem but after looking at services changes from the early 2000s most either got withdrawn or changed to lower numbers.
Here's a vehicle & service number trivia question that someone on here might be able to answer:

Which were the first Lothian (or Edinburgh Corporation) vehicles introduced that could display a 3-digit route number?

I recall some appearing in the late 1970s and at the time wondered if it would bring services with numbers greater than 99, or maybe the rather alien practice at that time of using letters. But all we seemed to get was the airport bus and after the night routes were relaunched there was 101 to 105.

I expect others can be more definitive than me - I don't have much of a clue about display technology or history. But as you say it seems Edinburgh has never really needed much more than 57, never mind 99 different varieties.
 

takno

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Something I realized today is Lothian City don't have any services numbered above 50 (Exceptions are the few services in the 60s) not saying this is a problem but after looking at services changes from the early 2000s most either got withdrawn or changed to lower numbers.
So, apart from the ones in the 60s, and the 100 what have the Romans ever done for us?
 

OmniCity999

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Something I realized today is Lothian City don't have any services numbered above 50 (Exceptions are the few services in the 60s) not saying this is a problem but after looking at services changes from the early 2000s most either got withdrawn or changed to lower numbers.
AIUI, the 50 range is reserved for tram service, when / if multiple lines exist & tram replacement services, when that becomes an issue...

and then inevitably when the tram is torn up in 50 years time, they'll be bus numbers... :rolleyes::lol:
 

VioletEclipse

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The only service in the 60's still in existence in the 67, which is the least frequent regular city service (hourly Mon-Fri) and currently isn't even running
 

BobScott

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AIUI, the 50 range is reserved for tram service, when / if multiple lines exist & tram replacement services, when that becomes an issue...

and then inevitably when the tram is torn up in 50 years time, they'll be bus numbers... :rolleyes::lol:
There was an LRT 132 in the Danderhall/Old Craighall area round about deregulation time.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Yes but I don't think it will come back, now that there is a 15 & 47B serving Bush already
Bush currently has less buses than it normally does. The 37 is near back to normal at the Bush side of things, 15 is all stops and only runs to the campus (not beyond to Deanburn), Eastfield extension is missing too but I don’t think that has any direct impact on this. The peak time 47B is covering for the peak time X47 (basically an all stops version of it). The 67 currently has no full cover (47B you could argue is covering it but not directly). 67 isn’t running as the number of students at the campus is far lower than normal, when students do start to return in higher numbers, I’m sure the 67 will return. It offers connections to King’s Buildings and the central area which normally during the day are needed, at the moment they are not. The 47B offers the connection to the central area at peak times only.
 
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There appears to be two single deck vehicles on the 3 right now (37 and 171) going by the tracker; how rare is this? I've never seen singles on the 3 before.
Also there's a noticeable lack of (decker) hybrids on the 3 today, could it be something to do with that? (I know it's been mostly hybrids during the week this week but I'm not sure what it's normally like on a Saturday)
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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There appears to be two single deck vehicles on the 3 right now (37 and 171) going by the tracker; how rare is this? I've never seen singles on the 3 before.
Also there's a noticeable lack of (decker) hybrids on the 3 today, could it be something to do with that? (I know it's been mostly hybrids during the week this week but I'm not sure what it's normally like on a Saturday)
That’s extremely rare, especially to see one never mind two single decks on the 3. I think 171 was on the 36 this morning, I’m guessing 505 appears to have taken its place on that.
 

DunsBus

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There was an LRT 132 in the Danderhall/Old Craighall area round about deregulation time.
As I recall, the 132 was a Lothian Regional Council tender. One of the journeys extended to Tranent, and ran from there back into town as a 44A.
 

tbtc

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Something I realized today is Lothian City don't have any services numbered above 50 (Exceptions are the few services in the 60s) not saying this is a problem but after looking at services changes from the early 2000s most either got withdrawn or changed to lower numbers.

Off the top of my head, there were the following LRT routes post-deregulation - most of which were scrapped by the millennium):

  • 51 - half hourly version of the 5 that ran via the western end of The Jewel to ASDA (rather than via Brunstane)
  • 52 - anti clockwise version of the 32 (Outer Circle) every twenty minutes
  • 58/59 - the "Maxi Taxi" services - can't remember which were which but one was a Musselburgh Town Service, one was effectively a Wester Hailes "town service' (Clovenstone to Sighthill - in the days when the CitySprinter C55 penetrated the scheme whilst the big red buses on the 22/25/34/35 only served the main road)
  • 60 - Holyrood - Bristo Place
  • 61 - Bristo Place - Churchhill (on the same timetable as the 24 IIRC)
  • 62 - tendered Sunday service to Penicuik via Morningside (years before the 15 extended beyond Fairmilehead)
  • 63 - West Lothian (was Brunstane - Livingston, later became City - Whitburn?)
  • 64 - City - Armadale
  • 65 - Lochend - Herriot Watt
  • 66 - South Queensferry - Seaton Sands
  • 67 - "Current" service to Bush
  • 68 - Portobello - Mayfield (placing journeys for express service from Midlothian into Edinburgh)
  • 69 - Portobello "local", but also Moredun - Clermiston
  • 70s - mainly rush hour only version of various daytime services (since LRT seemed to have an aversion fo "X" prefixes)
  • 80 - East Craigs/ Davidsons Mains - Polton Mill
  • 81 - Muirhouse - Penicuik
  • 82 - Granton (etc?) - Midlothian (Bonnybridge?)
  • 83 - Wallyford - Balerno
  • 84 - Musselburgh - Dalkeith (and beyond? Penicuik?), plus also Wallyford - Balerno a few years earlier
  • 85 - Tranent - Clermiston
  • 86 - Tranent - Clermiston
  • 87 - Kings Road - Penicuik
  • 88 - short lived version of the 87?
  • 89 - Eastfeld - Gorebridge
  • 90s - I think some shopper services in western Edinburgh were numbered in the nineties? - plus the 90 was the Dalkeith town service?
  • 100 - Waverley Bridge - Airport
  • 101-106 - Night buses
  • 132 - as mentioned above - Danderhall area
  • 200 - St Andrew Square - Airport
  • 201-205 - Night buses
Some of these were limited stop, some of these evolved a bit (e.g. the 85 started off at Stoneybank before the Tranent extension, later renumbered to X85), some of the termini swapped around a little (e.g. you'd have a Midlothian service running through to the Western General but beyond that it may have swapped from the current 19 route around Granton to serving Muirhouse/ Silverknowes instead -I lost track of some of the swaps) but I've put the termini that I remember best (I think that the 89 had several "northern" termini!)
 

DunsBus

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Off the top of my head, there were the following LRT routes post-deregulation - most of which were scrapped by the millennium):

  • 51 - half hourly version of the 5 that ran via the western end of The Jewel to ASDA (rather than via Brunstane)
  • 52 - anti clockwise version of the 32 (Outer Circle) every twenty minutes
  • 58/59 - the "Maxi Taxi" services - can't remember which were which but one was a Musselburgh Town Service, one was effectively a Wester Hailes "town service' (Clovenstone to Sighthill - in the days when the CitySprinter C55 penetrated the scheme whilst the big red buses on the 22/25/34/35 only served the main road)
  • 60 - Holyrood - Bristo Place
  • 61 - Bristo Place - Churchhill (on the same timetable as the 24 IIRC)
  • 62 - tendered Sunday service to Penicuik via Morningside (years before the 15 extended beyond Fairmilehead)
  • 63 - West Lothian (was Brunstane - Livingston, later became City - Whitburn?)
  • 64 - City - Armadale
  • 65 - Lochend - Herriot Watt
  • 66 - South Queensferry - Seaton Sands
  • 67 - "Current" service to Bush
  • 68 - Portobello - Mayfield (placing journeys for express service from Midlothian into Edinburgh)
  • 69 - Portobello "local", but also Moredun - Clermiston
  • 70s - mainly rush hour only version of various daytime services (since LRT seemed to have an aversion fo "X" prefixes)
  • 80 - East Craigs/ Davidsons Mains - Polton Mill
  • 81 - Muirhouse - Penicuik
  • 82 - Granton (etc?) - Midlothian (Bonnybridge?)
  • 83 - Wallyford - Balerno
  • 84 - Musselburgh - Dalkeith (and beyond? Penicuik?), plus also Wallyford - Balerno a few years earlier
  • 85 - Tranent - Clermiston
  • 86 - Tranent - Clermiston
  • 87 - Kings Road - Penicuik
  • 88 - short lived version of the 87?
  • 89 - Eastfeld - Gorebridge
  • 90s - I think some shopper services in western Edinburgh were numbered in the nineties? - plus the 90 was the Dalkeith town service?
  • 100 - Waverley Bridge - Airport
  • 101-106 - Night buses
  • 132 - as mentioned above - Danderhall area
  • 200 - St Andrew Square - Airport
  • 201-205 - Night buses
Some of these were limited stop, some of these evolved a bit (e.g. the 85 started off at Stoneybank before the Tranent extension, later renumbered to X85), some of the termini swapped around a little (e.g. you'd have a Midlothian service running through to the Western General but beyond that it may have swapped from the current 19 route around Granton to serving Muirhouse/ Silverknowes instead -I lost track of some of the swaps) but I've put the termini that I remember best (I think that the 89 had several "northern" termini!)
63 was originally Seafield/Brunstane - Livingston (St John's Hospital), then Seafield/Brunstane - Deans South before its brief extension to Whitburn. When LRT withdrew its entire West Lothian network in December 1994, the route then became Seafield/Brunstane - Gyle Centre.

82 was originally Gorebridge - West End, then Rosewell - West End from January 1987 and Rosewell to East Craigs from November 1988. For the final year or so of its existence (March 2000 to May 2001) it ran as Danderhall - East Craigs with a peak hour extension from Stoneybank AM and to Stoneybank PM.

There was also an evening and Sunday variant, the 82A which ran between Rosewell and Muirhouse from 1988 until 1992. Later in 1992 a partial Sunday service was reinstated, running between Rosewell and George Street. This came off in 1999.

The 89 did have a number of northern terminals (Eastfield, Leith Links, Seafield and finally Granton) with its route through the city centre changing several times as well. As I recall, the 89 suffered badly from timekeeping issues and during the time when it terminated at Seafield (September 1991 to July 1993), this was solved by having a spare bus parked on the hill at Marine. If an incoming 89 was late, then the next one due out used the spare and once the incoming one eventually arrived it then became the spare bus.
 
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Bus9120UK

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Found a photo of a few more MCVs down at Seafield, looks like 72, 81, 82 and 66 ;

There is an XLB behind the Gemini 1 there, however it seems the livery above the window with the destination screens is plain white, what happened? (Normally it has maroon paint there)
 

OmniCity999

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There is an XLB behind the Gemini 1 there, however it seems the livery above the window with the destination screens is plain white, what happened? (Normally it has maroon paint there)
Its in full livery, the angle of the photograph is cutting it off.
 

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