Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Don’t think this has been noted already but from what I can see all of Central’s allocation of NightBuses tonight/this morning appear to be single deckers. A sign that the NightBuses are very quiet indeed. For those wondering the ones out so far are:

N3: 6 & 10
N11/N16 (part route/interwork): 1 & 14
N16 (full route): 5 & 15
N25: 2
N26: 4 & 11
N37: 8 & 9

 

[CN04NRJ]

Don’t think this has been noted already but from what I can see all of Central’s allocation of NightBuses tonight/this morning appear to be single deckers. A sign that the NightBuses are very quiet indeed. For those wondering the ones out so far are:

N3: 6 & 10
N11/N16 (part route/interwork): 1 & 14
N16 (full route): 5 & 15
N25: 2
N26: 4 & 11
N37: 8 & 9

Ouch for the drivers! At least the vehicles are getting some usage.

 

[GusB]

Not sure that's justifiable. It's a bus company after all, not a broadband provider. Mobile phone coverage is quite good across the network and most journeys are quite brief. The type of passenger wanting enhanced data rates can probably make their own general arrangements rather than uplifting the Ridacard cost for all.

I'm not a regular visitor to Edinburgh but I found mobile coverage to be very patchy, even with a dual-sim phone. Leith, where I was staying the last time I visited, was absolutely awful. I didn't actually try the bus wifi (I wasn't aware it was there, to be honest) but having to manually switch between SIMs to get a data signal was an absolute pain in the backside.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I have had similar issues in Edinburgh city centre with mobile data. I ended up having to text someone to ask them to check when buses were due, as the (extremely outdated, imo) bustracker signs were out of use and I couldn't get onto the Internet using my phone (despite having a full 4G signal)...

As soon as I got out of the city centre, though, it was completely fine.

 

[kez19]

I thought it was just me that had issues in Edinburgh even in terms of getting a phone signal at times, the buses I have only used in Edinburgh was the 22s, then the 30(?) to Musselburgh and the 107 Lothian Country back.

I think the only time I had WiFi at that time was on the Lothian Country bus.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Buses used to have stickers on windows but this was vetoed when new management came in.

those are long gone now, 2017 those were taken off

 

[takno]

Central Edinburgh has always been painful for mobile signal - there are something like 12 microcells downs the length of the cowgate and it still doesn't penetrate most of the buildings. Even if you can get a good signal, like I do from the office, the data rate is awful. Add in the fact that most visitors experience it during the festival, when it's basically completely unusable for a month.

The problem is that the buses are on the same 4g network, and you're sharing whatever crumbs of bandwidth you can get with all the other people on the bus.

I spend a fiver a month on a rolling contract including 3 gigs of data, which ought to be plenty for bus journeys. No point in charging higher fares to provide anything other than a low-speed backup service

 

[scosutsut]

Another issue, if it's provided at a premium Lothian would get absolutely slammed with users complaining when it didn't work, or wasn't fast enough, or doesn't work with their Great Grandfather's Nokia 1 from 1973* so as a techie I'd recommend in the strongest terms that they don't go down that road less they want that pain!

Mobile signal is patchy. It's a hilly city with big, thick, solid buildings in the way. Also EE have had data issues for years in the City Centre which they've never fixed. You can get full signal in Waverley and no connectivity. But don't start me on that useless shower!

Anyway I think it's become a less important feature over time for buses, what with (generally) people having sufficient data allowances, roaming etc, but if the kit is owned and it can be provided it does no harm to provide it.

(* I made that up, as an extreme example)

 

[Siemens Trains]

Don’t think this has been noted already but from what I can see all of Central’s allocation of NightBuses tonight/this morning appear to be single deckers. A sign that the NightBuses are very quiet indeed. For those wondering the ones out so far are:

N3: 6 & 10
N11/N16 (part route/interwork): 1 & 14
N16 (full route): 5 & 15
N25: 2
N26: 4 & 11
N37: 8 & 9

Just speculation on my part but maybe the choice to go with single deckers across the board was a combination of low passenger demand and fear of encountering disruptive wind overnight.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Lothian Buses are introducing extra school services from Monday - including a partial return of the 45.
It's good to see there are no more school journey's on Friday Afternoons, as this was a mistake that occured last time.

https://twitter.com/on_lothianbuses/status/1369702237329571841

A number of extra journeys will be added to the Lothian network from Monday 15 March in response to an expected increase in passengers as more pupils return to school.

Linked Article: https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2021/03/service-change-from-monday-15-march/

Extra journeys will be added to weekday mornings and afternoons (during school term only) on certain services to provide additional capacity for those making essential journeys. The Service 45 will also return on school days between Heriot-Watt University and Lauriston Place via Currie, Colinton and Bruntsfield (with two morning journeys and two afternoon journeys). An additional morning and afternoon journey will operate on the Service 42 between Leith and Holy Rood High School only.

 

[Lothianbus703]

How many 57 reg B9TLS are left? I know 875 is but that's it.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

How many 57 reg B9TLS are left, I know 875 is but that's it.

In service? Just 874 and 875 at Central. Then 841-843 at Lothiancountry and 844-850 at EastCoastbuses.

 

[Lothianbus703]

So many have gone in the last few months, wow

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Of the 07 plates 826-830 are at Lothian Country whilst upgrades are ongoing.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Of the 07 plates 826-830 are at Lothian Country whilst upgrades are ongoing.

Not anymore.

 

[route101]

Another issue, if it's provided at a premium Lothian would get absolutely slammed with users complaining when it didn't work, or wasn't fast enough, or doesn't work with their Great Grandfather's Nokia 1 from 1973* so as a techie I'd recommend in the strongest terms that they don't go down that road less they want that pain!

Mobile signal is patchy. It's a hilly city with big, thick, solid buildings in the way. Also EE have had data issues for years in the City Centre which they've never fixed. You can get full signal in Waverley and no connectivity. But don't start me on that useless shower!

Anyway I think it's become a less important feature over time for buses, what with (generally) people having sufficient data allowances, roaming etc, but if the kit is owned and it can be provided it does no harm to provide it.

(* I made that up, as an extreme example)

Glasgow City Centre is the same. There is a bit where I get no signal near St Enoch Centre, I guess the buildings. Will check the next time I'm in Edinburgh.

I think there is still a fair few that rely on wifi on buses etc. I usually use my data as its annoying connecting all the time. Though with poor home internet Ive been using mobile hotspot and that eats it up. I think Stagecoach have taken off wifi in local buses.

 

[221129]

I think there is still a fair few that rely on wifi on buses etc.

I really doubt that, especially as it is isn't advertised.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Glasgow City Centre is the same. There is a bit where I get no signal near St Enoch Centre, I guess the buildings. Will check the next time I'm in Edinburgh.

I think there is still a fair few that rely on wifi on buses etc. I usually use my data as its annoying connecting all the time. Though with poor home internet Ive been using mobile hotspot and that eats it up. I think Stagecoach have taken off wifi in local buses.

I've never thought about it but now it's been brought up i have noticed before how poor connectivity is in Edinburgh. Aberdeen in comparison has free wifi across the entire city centre, around most libraries and down at the beach.

I don't think that many do rely on wifi on buses, not on shorter journeys anyway. It's always really slow and by the time you've managed to log in you're not far from where you want off anyway. Albeit the data caps at certain operators don't help either!

 

[GusB]

Okay, let's keep the thread on topic please - wifi in Glasgow and Aberdeen is not relevant.

 

[OmniCity999]

Glasgow City Centre is the same. There is a bit where I get no signal near St Enoch Centre, I guess the buildings. Will check the next time I'm in Edinburgh.

I think there is still a fair few that rely on wifi on buses etc. I usually use my data as its annoying connecting all the time. Though with poor home internet Ive been using mobile hotspot and that eats it up. I think Stagecoach have taken off wifi in local buses.

I really doubt that, especially as it is isn't advertised.

I've never thought about it but now it's been brought up i have noticed before how poor connectivity is in Edinburgh. Aberdeen in comparison has free wifi across the entire city centre, around most libraries and down at the beach.

I don't think that many do rely on wifi on buses, not on shorter journeys anyway. It's always really slow and by the time you've managed to log in you're not far from where you want off anyway. Albeit the data caps at certain operators don't help either!

This is the reason the contactless payment systems took so long to introduce.

Edinburgh's landscape and buildings mean that network coverage can be patchy at best. Network repeaters were also installed in various location in conjunction with the council were the service was so bad.

More powerful networking had to be installed on each bus to facilitate contactless payments. This in tern means that contactless payments can be taken even when no internet is available. Payments can be taken, cached and and processed at a later time, which is the case.

WiFi for patrons and WiFi for bus systems works on separate systems - to negate any issues.

 

[Humberscot]

According to bustimes.org service X38 and EX2 will be cancelled on March 7th.

Link below to service X38.

PM0002883/14 – bustimes.org

Link below to EX2.

PM0002883/9 – bustimes.org

Interested to know why LCB has pulled the X38. Winchburgh is an area of massive development with the population due to expand greatly over the next few years and before and if the train station ever gets built there should be business to be had even during COVID restrictions. First have a history of running an unreliable 38 and are not popular. If they costed it right they could easily give First a run for their money here. Seems a strange decision - the LCB X38 showed real potential compared to so many other LCB routes which have, even pre-COVID have always been virtually empty.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Interested to know why LCB has pulled the X38. Winchburgh is an area of massive development with the population due to expand greatly over the next few years and before and if the train station ever gets built there should be business to be had even during COVID restrictions. First have a history of running an unreliable 38 and are not popular. If they costed it right they could easily give First a run for their money here. Seems a strange decision - the LCB X38 showed real potential compared to so many other LCB routes which have, even pre-COVID have always been virtually empty.

I could see them doing a Winchburgh service.

This is an idea (I'll use a fictious service number) service 274 Kirkliston to Boghall via Winchburgh Threemiletown, Eccelsmachan, Uphall, Uphall Station, Pumpherston, Mid Calder (Spottiswoodie Gardens) Dedridge, Livingston, Polbeth, West Calder, Addiewell, Loganlea, Stoneyburn, Bents Fauldhouse (or straight to Longridge), Longridge, Whitburn, Armadale and Bathgate.

It would be hourly on all days of the week and would terminate evenings at Livingston and Winchburgh.

Peak morning and evening times would see X19 for Edinburgh journeys running every 30mins.

Just an idea though.

 

[DunsBus]

Interested to know why LCB has pulled the X38. Winchburgh is an area of massive development with the population due to expand greatly over the next few years and before and if the train station ever gets built there should be business to be had even during COVID restrictions. First have a history of running an unreliable 38 and are not popular. If they costed it right they could easily give First a run for their money here. Seems a strange decision - the LCB X38 showed real potential compared to so many other LCB routes which have, even pre-COVID have always been virtually empty.

Unfortunately, the potential didn't translate into the necessary number of bums on seats which were needed to keep the service going. First can't have been that unpopular with passengers to have seen off the LCB X38. This is why LCB has struggled - there was a management belief, and anticipation, that First would just roll over in West Lothian and this didn't happen. The fact that the X17, X38, EX1 and EX2 - after being launched amid much hype - have now all gone is proof that there simply isn't the custom in West Lothian to sustain two operators.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Unfortunately, the potential didn't translate into the necessary number of bums on seats which were needed to keep the service going. First can't have been that unpopular with passengers to have seen off the LCB X38. This is why LCB has struggled - there was a management belief, and anticipation, that First would just roll over in West Lothian and this didn't happen. The fact that the X17, X38, EX1 and EX2 - after being launched amid much hype - have now all gone is proof that there simply isn't the custom in West Lothian to sustain two operators.

Technically the X17 isn't gone, the 276 misses the Kilpunt Roundabout to Edinburgh City Centre portion.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Technically the X17 isn't gone, the 276 misses the Kilpunt Roundabout to Edinburgh City Centre portion.

It goes via Craigshill and Grange Road instead of the Fastlink, and also doesn’t go to Fauldhouse. It’s an entirely different route. Long term if the 276 sticks (which seems more likely than X17 coming back) it might go a little bit further but I wouldn’t be putting bets on it put it that way.

Lothiancountry hasn’t lived up to what Lothian thought it could’ve been, but I and others have said similar things before so I don’t see any point repeating an old argument that hasn’t changed, from both sides (First and Lothian). And I’m sure those employed by Lothiancountry wouldn’t find it helpful either, it’s peoples jobs and livelihood after all.

 

[Baileygirl]

It goes via Craigshill and Grange Road instead of the Fastlink, and also doesn’t go to Fauldhouse. It’s an entirely different route. Long term if the 276 sticks (which seems more likely than X17 coming back) it might go a little bit further but I wouldn’t be putting bets on it put it that way.

Lothiancountry hasn’t lived up to what Lothian thought it could’ve been, but I and others have said similar things before so I don’t see any point repeating an old argument that hasn’t changed, from both sides (First and Lothian). And I’m sure those employed by Lothiancountry wouldn’t find it helpful either, it’s peoples jobs and livelihood after all.

Interesting to note that the service nos have changed on the bus stops at Ratho Station. The EX1, EX2, X17 and X18 have been removed but the 275 has not. Would suggest the X17 is not coming back. The X38 also had the disadvantage of the crew changes being distant from the depot arising in extra costs being involved.

 

[Graham Alexand]

It goes via Craigshill and Grange Road instead of the Fastlink, and also doesn’t go to Fauldhouse. It’s an entirely different route. Long term if the 276 sticks (which seems more likely than X17 coming back) it might go a little bit further but I wouldn’t be putting bets on it put it that way.

Lothiancountry hasn’t lived up to what Lothian thought it could’ve been, but I and others have said similar things before so I don’t see any point repeating an old argument that hasn’t changed, from both sides (First and Lothian). And I’m sure those employed by Lothiancountry wouldn’t find it helpful either, it’s peoples jobs and livelihood after all.

The X17 was going to get withdrawn from Fauldhouse anyways, so Stoneyburn and Bents are not served.

The X17 always ran through Craigshill from the very beginning.

The only changed part is the portion between Craigshill and Uphall.

Currently it's numbered 276 but it is essentially the X17 because for a month or 2 when the X17 was reintroduced it ran the same route as the 276 today, also the part which has been changed is very minor.

I have attached the old map of the X17 below.

 

[GusB]

If a service is no longer numbered X17 and has a different number, regardless of the route it takes, the service is gone.

We've gone over what might have been with the West Lothian routes so many times already in this thread and the fact of the matter is that the Covid situation has caused most, if not all, operators to slam on the brakes and rethink their operations.

Speculation about what might be in the future is unhelpful because we still don't know the exact timescale for lifting any restrictions. I suggest we knock it on the head for now and leave the service planning to those who are actually paid to do it!

 

[Busman757]

What I can say is that there are currently no extensions to routes or new routes coming any time soon.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Noticed earlier a 400 in Moredun parked at the side of the road with a few people in hi-vis and a maintenance van around 8ish and now the 8 & 400 both completely avoiding Moredun, could this be due to antiscoial behaviour or is it just coincidence?