Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[EdinRH]

In Scotland Bank Holidays are just that - Holidays for banks. The public holiday was last Monday (Victoria Day). Different cities have holidays on different weekends - today is the Glasgow holiday.

This hasn't been true of banks in Scotland since the mid 1990s. They now take the rest of the UK dates with the addition of 2nd January

The official Bank Holidays are (bold text for differences)

Scotland: Good Friday, first and last Mondays in May, first Monday in August, St Andrew's Day, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Day, 2nd January.

Rest of UK: Good Friday, Easter Monday, first and last Mondays in May, last Monday in August, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Day.

Lothian Buses operate a Saturday service on both Good Friday and Easter Monday even though the Monday is technically a normal working day in Scotland. In August, they do not restrict the service on either holiday date (presumably it is still busy because of the Festival). There is an Edinburgh local holiday on the third Monday in September. Lothian operate a Saturday service then.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The official Bank Holidays are (bold text for differences)

Scotland: Good Friday, first and last Mondays in May, first Monday in August, St Andrew's Day, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Day, 2nd January.

Rest of UK: Good Friday, Easter Monday, first and last Mondays in May, last Monday in August, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Day.

I thought we had Easter Monday? I could be wrong though. We should also remember St ____ Day for Wales, England and NI.

 

[EdinRH]

I thought we had Easter Monday? I could be wrong though. We should also remember St ____ Day for Wales, England and NI.

Easter Monday is not a national Bank Holiday in Scotland. Until 1995 banks in Scotland opened on Easter Monday, after which they started taking the same holidays as the rest of the UK as a matter of convenience. Easter Monday is however declared to be a local public holiday by the vast majority of Scottish councils, including Edinburgh, so the Saturday service by Lothian Buses on Easter Monday is not without foundation.

I believe St Patrick's Day is a Bank Holiday in Northern Ireland, whereas the relevant saint's days are not holidays in either England or Wales.

 

[GusB]

Let's not have an in-depth discussion about what is and isn't a bank holiday. It's taking the thread off-topic.

 

[Bus9120UK]

1051-1057/9 are now at Seafield.

 

[computerSaysNo]

1051-1057/9 are now at Seafield.

It would surprise me if these were to go to East Coast as has been suggested. I would have said it was a good idea but the Gemini B9s have only been painted fairly recently into the new colours so I can't see any swaps taking place for a while.

 

[stevenedin]

It would surprise me if these were to go to East Coast as has been suggested. I would have said it was a good idea but the Gemini B9s have only been painted fairly recently into the new colours so I can't see any swaps taking place for a while.

841-850 need to be withdrawn so that’s 10 buses that could be replaced with these.

 

[computerSaysNo]

841-850 need to be withdrawn so that’s 10 buses that could be replaced with these.

Why do they need withdrawn? They've only just been painted.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Why do they need withdrawn? They've only just been painted.

Two days ago marked a year for the first, so I wouldn't say 'just'. They lasted longer than 591-594, plus it's not unusual for Lothian to withdraw a bus so fast after painting.

 

[stevenedin]

Why do they need withdrawn? They've only just been painted.

There’s been rumours that they are being withdrawn soon and they are 15 years old now. They are still perfectly fine but I read somewhere (I can’t remember where) that drivers were complaining about them.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There’s been rumours that they are being withdrawn soon and they are 15 years old now. They are still perfectly fine but I read somewhere (I can’t remember where) that drivers were complaining about them.

Oh right. Do they drive significantly worse than more modern buses then? Or is the driving environment worse?

 

[ScotRail158725]

841-850 need to be withdrawn so that’s 10 buses that could be replaced with these.

They don’t need to be withdrawn

Why do they need withdrawn? They've only just been painted.

Paint doesn’t matter

Two days ago marked a year for the first, so I wouldn't say 'just'. They lasted longer than 591-594, plus it's not unusual for Lothian to withdraw a bus so fast after painting.

Not really, other than 591-594 i can’t remember the last time Lothian withdrew a bus less than 2 years after a repaint.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I was told about a month and a half ago by someone that the driver union isn't happy with 841-850 and want them gone, then this news broke! I have also heard that Lothian might've bought 25 Volvo BZL's, but I've not mentioned it here due to the fact I have no other evidence. I think with 1051-1062 joining East Coast Buses, I think this has become more likely. I wouldn't be too certain about the BZL news.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Would there be enough double deckers left in the City fleet if 1051-1062 all go to East Coast?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Would there be enough double deckers left in the City fleet if 1051-1062 all go to East Coast?

Well 1152/3 would almost certainly have to be used. This is why I am thinking that the 25 BZL order rumour was worth pointing out.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Would there be enough double deckers left in the City fleet if 1051-1062 all go to East Coast?

Clearly there is if Lothian are able to operate the updated service levels without issues (..yet). Don't forget Lothian has gained 1003/4/13/28/30/31/32 as well.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Clearly there is if Lothian are able to operate the updated service levels without issues (..yet). Don't forget Lothian has gained 1003/4/13/28/30/31/32 as well.

What about spares, etc? Would this include 466-470 staying at Central? If that was a thing surely Ex-London's would be swapped from Marine to Central with them?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Don't forget Lothian has gained 1003/4/13/28/30/31/32 as well.

This is true, I had forgotten about those.

This is why I am thinking that the 25 BZL order rumour was worth pointing out.

I assume if there were getting BZLs that (1) there would be an announcement and delay for manufacture and (2) there would be a delay in getting charging points installed. So I would guess any BZLs wouldn't be delivered any earlier than next year.

 

[Cesarcollie]

I was told about a month and a half ago by someone that the driver union isn't happy with 841-850 and want them gone, then this news broke! I have also heard that Lothian might've bought 25 Volvo BZL's, but I've not mentioned it here due to the fact I have no other evidence. I think with 1051-1062 joining East Coast Buses, I think this has become more likely. I wouldn't be too certain about the BZL news.

It’s unlikely that just because ‘the trade Union don’t like them’ a particular bus or batch of buses would be disposed of……

 

[LothianBusesPh]

This is true, I had forgotten about those.

I assume if there were getting BZLs that (1) there would be an announcement and delay for manufacture and (2) there would be a delay in getting charging points installed. So I would guess any BZLs wouldn't be delivered any earlier than next year.

I was told that charging points were being installed soon by said source, we didn't know about 291-294 coming until they arrived too!

Soon = Not right now, I don't have a date and yet again it may not be accurate.

It’s unlikely that just because ‘the trade Union don’t like them’ a particular bus or batch of buses would be disposed of……

I know that, but I just wanted to add that they weren't happy with them either. I would hope Lothian wouldn't scrap buses because a union didn't like them!!!

 

[computerSaysNo]

What about spares, etc? Would this include 466-470 staying at Central? If that was a thing surely Ex-London's would be swapped from Marine to Central with them?

I am still confused about 466-470 going to Central. If this is to cope with an increased decker requirement at Central why send vehicles branded for a route Central don't operate?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

It looks like I need to be a bit more clear that nothing I said was facts and it was just to add to the conversation!

I am still confused about 466-470 going to Central. If this is to cope with an increased decker requirement at Central why send vehicles branded for a route Central don't operate?

The only thing I can think of, is that it was to be a temporary replacement for the 18 plates?

 

[Bus9120UK]

I am still confused about 466-470 going to Central. If this is to cope with an increased decker requirement at Central why send vehicles branded for a route Central don't operate?

The buses aren't strictly branded for the 26, just the zoo in general. Looking at it from a spreadsheet view it's simply just 441-470 at Central now.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

They're not going to be used on the 31 because that's XLB's now, so unless they were to for no reason at all, remove the XLB's from the 31 (Which can struggle even on XLB's,) that's the only logical explanation.

The buses aren't strictly branded for the 26, just the zoo in general. Looking at it from a spreadsheet view it's simply just 441-470 at Central now.

I do like the fact that they sorted it like that. And at least the plates are similar because it goes from 66 to 17!

I want to add that charging points being installed could be the new Toyota Electric Vans!

 

[computerSaysNo]

I do like the fact that they sorted it like that. And at least the plates are similar because it goes from 66 to 17!

I do think it would be interesting to do some kind of analysis to compare the 2014 batch, 2015 batch, 2016 batch, 2017 batch, and 2018 batch of B5s, as they have all had different route allocations and garages since introduction. E.g. the 26 seems to be quite an intense route which runs for a high number of hours each day, so will that batch have a higher annual mileage?

 

[GusB]

I was told that charging points were being installed soon by said source, we didn't know about 291-294 coming until they arrived too!

Soon = Not right now, I don't have a date and yet again it may not be accurate.


I know that, but I just wanted to add that they weren't happy with them either. I would hope Lothian wouldn't scrap buses because a union didn't like them!!!

Perhaps you could indicate what your source is. Is it a reliable internal source within Lothian Buses, or is it just on-the-grapevine wibble?

If it's the former, are you authorised to make such announcements on behalf of the company?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I do think it would be interesting to do some kind of analysis to compare the 2014 batch, 2015 batch, 2016 batch, 2017 batch, and 2018 batch of B5s, as they have all had different route allocations and garages since introduction. E.g. the 26 seems to be quite an intense route which runs for a high number of hours each day, so will that batch have a higher annual mileage?

They will also be more strained and will wear quicker.

Perhaps you could indicate what your source is. Is it a reliable internal source within Lothian Buses, or is it just on-the-grapevine wibble?

If it's the former, are you authorised to make such announcements on behalf of the company?

Supervisor at Lothian, that's why I am saying it's not 100% reliable and I am just stating what I've been told. I just wanted to state it to help people theorize what will happen with things to do with allocations, etc.

 

[Highland050261]

I believe if all is to go well they were to purchase 997 at the end of its loan period. I believe that was why it has Lothian Interior.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

So it would appear that Central has held onto 3 runs (previously 6) on the 44 Mon-Fri. The 25 is back to being fully Longstone operated- previously 4 runs from Marine Mon-Fri.

 

[Vectron383]

I believe if all is to go well they were to purchase 997 at the end of its loan period I believe that was why it has lothain Interior.

I was about to make a similar comment- its extended stay could indicate a ‘bedding in’ operation to establish suitability for particular routes. (This certainly is unsubstantiated wibble)