Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Why are all the country buses double decker? Surely single deckers are more cost-effective given the lower passenger numbers.

To answer your question is actually a bit more complicated than it would seem.

As has been said by others, Lothian Country only have Double Deckers now. This is really due to a lack of available single deckers.

In an ideal world the 1 and 30 would both become double deckers which then not only would withdraw 1-10, it would allow you to move surplus other single deckers to Lothian Country. This would then allow the ageing Gemini’s to be sold. Now this is possible with the BZL’s arriving soon, but to do this you would need to compromise on having frequency increases.

That would then mean that 1-10, 841-850 and 905-906 are gone and maybe a few routes can still go up in frequency. The 1 and 30 would likely be reduced in frequency in any case.

I have spent the last couple of days trying to get everything up to a good frequency, using the fleet as much as possible. The result was that Lothian was 53 double deckers short. In my plan only 1-10 went, the 12 Gemini’s all stayed! So you could argue it’s 65.

The last point is, we all want to see things go up, but driver shortages are still there. Thankfully gone are the days where no relief driver would be at a changeover point, but as far as I know, it’s still very stretched with very little spare coverage.

 

[Lothianbus703]

To answer your question is actually a bit more complicated than it would seem.

As has been said by others, Lothian Country only have Double Deckers now. This is really due to a lack of available single deckers.

In an ideal world the 1 and 30 would both become double deckers which then not only would withdraw 1-10, it would allow you to move surplus other single deckers to Lothian Country. This would then allow the ageing Gemini’s to be sold. Now this is possible with the BZL’s arriving soon, but to do this you would need to compromise on having frequency increases.

That would then mean that 1-10, 841-850 and 905-906 are gone and maybe a few routes can still go up in frequency. The 1 and 30 would likely be reduced in frequency in any case.

I have spent the last couple of days trying to get everything up to a good frequency, using the fleet as much as possible. The result was that Lothian was 53 double deckers short. In my plan only 1-10 went, the 12 Gemini’s all stayed! So you could argue it’s 65.

The last point is, we all want to see things go up, but driver shortages are still there. Thankfully gone are the days where no relief driver would be at a changeover point, but as far as I know, it’s still very stretched with very little spare coverage.

The 30 would need to be rerouted with other services potentially changed to cover missed out sections.

The Geminis have been taken care of and looked after enough there isnt a need to withdraw them.

I am unsure on the situation of 1-10 or 12-50.

I agree converting the 1 and 30 to double deckers is a good idea regardless of the situation.

 

[CSB0241]

In an ideal world the 1 and 30 would both become double deckers which then not only would withdraw 1-10, it would allow you to move surplus other single deckers to Lothian Country. This would then allow the ageing Gemini’s to be sold. Now this is possible with the BZL’s arriving soon, but to do this you would need to compromise on having frequency increases.

May I ask, what’s wrong with 1-10? I was on 5 yesterday afternoon & it seemed to be in just as good condition as 12-50.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 30 would need to be rerouted with other services potentially changed to cover missed out sections.

There is no need to change anything to replace the 30. It rarely stops after Fort Kinnaird now so the demand isn’t there. 46 and 48 provide adequate coverage.

The Geminis have been taken care of and looked after enough there isnt a need to withdraw them.

Time will catch up with them. Yes they were heavily refurbished but since 2019 most of them have been getting hammered on long distance work. They’ve got pretty high mileages now. They can’t last forever.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

There is no need to change anything to replace the 30. It rarely stops after Fort Kinnaird now so the demand isn’t there. 46 and 48 provide adequate coverage.

Watch this space! The second Lothian announce the 30 getting curtailed back to Fort Kinnaird there will be an uproar on social media.

Does anyone know if the East Coast CountryPlus Daytickets are now valid in the CityWest Zone? They never used to be but since the normal daytickets are now valid to Queensferry it had me wondering.

 

[iij]

To answer your question is actually a bit more complicated than it would seem.

As has been said by others, Lothian Country only have Double Deckers now. This is really due to a lack of available single deckers.

In an ideal world the 1 and 30 would both become double deckers which then not only would withdraw 1-10, it would allow you to move surplus other single deckers to Lothian Country. This would then allow the ageing Gemini’s to be sold. Now this is possible with the BZL’s arriving soon, but to do this you would need to compromise on having frequency increases.

That would then mean that 1-10, 841-850 and 905-906 are gone and maybe a few routes can still go up in frequency. The 1 and 30 would likely be reduced in frequency in any case.

I have spent the last couple of days trying to get everything up to a good frequency, using the fleet as much as possible. The result was that Lothian was 53 double deckers short. In my plan only 1-10 went, the 12 Gemini’s all stayed! So you could argue it’s 65.

The last point is, we all want to see things go up, but driver shortages are still there. Thankfully gone are the days where no relief driver would be at a changeover point, but as far as I know, it’s still very stretched with very little spare coverage.

I see, is this the same reason that EastCoast 140/141 use deckers? Most of the time they run light.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I see, is this the same reason that EastCoast 140/141 use deckers? Most of the time they run light.

These services, and the 139, have enough demand at specific points during the day to justify double deckers.

 

[stevenedin]

Does it cost that much more to run a double decker than a single decker in general?

 

[H00V3R]

Does it cost that much more to run a double decker than a single decker in general?

Not an expert, but fuel costs and cleaning times must be at least two higher factors. Doubles are bigger, heavier and (in general) less aero dynamic than singles. Although if hybrids are to continue to be used on the 70/71 that may alleviate some of the cost on fuel.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Watch this space! The second Lothian announce the 30 getting curtailed back to Fort Kinnaird there will be an uproar on social media.

Does anyone know if the East Coast CountryPlus Daytickets are now valid in the CityWest Zone? They never used to be but since the normal daytickets are now valid to Queensferry it had me wondering.

I think this falls into the classic case of ‘use it or lose it’. I can’t see why there’d be a massive uproar to be honest. The 46 and 48 covers all the key links, the much faster train covers the city centre traffic, while QMU still has the 30 albeit via the A1. It would’ve been a different problem had the 30 still ran all the way to the Grammar School, but with it terminating at QMU it’s much easier to do now.

 

[iij]

I think this falls into the classic case of ‘use it or lose it’. I can’t see why there’d be a massive uproar to be honest. The 46 and 48 covers all the key links, the much faster train covers the city centre traffic, while QMU still has the 30 albeit via the A1. It would’ve been a different problem had the 30 still ran all the way to the Grammar School, but with it terminating at QMU it’s much easier to do now.

Instead of QMU the 30 could terminate at Brunstane station though it would mean fewer parking spaces.

 

[stevenedin]

I think this falls into the classic case of ‘use it or lose it’. I can’t see why there’d be a massive uproar to be honest. The 46 and 48 covers all the key links, the much faster train covers the city centre traffic, while QMU still has the 30 albeit via the A1. It would’ve been a different problem had the 30 still ran all the way to the Grammar School, but with it terminating at QMU it’s much easier to do now.

Does the 30 go along the A1 now?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does the 30 go along the A1 now?

Read back the relevant posts and it will make sense.

 

[Busman757]

Instead of QMU the 30 could terminate at Brunstane station though it would mean fewer parking spaces.

There’s no where to turn at Brunstane?

 

[Edirim]

There’s no where to turn at Brunstane?

Presumably they meant Newcraighall, which is where the 30 used to turn in years gone by.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet - there is currently an active process of refreshing the madder on the 11 plate B9TLs. This involves part repaint at Seafield with the madder receiving a new coating. I think the lower front bumper white might be painted too? The rest of the body is just polished.
So far, 364, 954 and 958 have been completed with 363 and 959 in progress. Worth saying that the buses which have had this completed so far have not gained the black behind the rear logo.

 

[DunsBus]

Presumably they meant Newcraighall, which is where the 30 used to turn in years gone by.

And the 14, before that.

 

[stantheman]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet - there is currently an active process of refreshing the madder on the 11 plate B9TLs. This involves part repaint at Seafield with the madder receiving a new coating. I think the lower front bumper white might be painted too? The rest of the body is just polished.
So far, 364, 954 and 958 have been completed with 363 and 959 in progress. Worth saying that the buses which have had this completed so far have not gained the black behind the rear logo.

Does that mean they will survive the new bus intake ?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does that mean they will survive the new bus intake ?

I think it’s looking more and more likely that everything could, maybe a small number of departures at most. A net increase nonetheless.

 

[stevenedin]

Does that mean they will survive the new bus intake ?

I think that they are at least 70 or so buses down compared to before 2020 so it makes sense to keep these running. I can see another order being placed at some point on top of this one. I was on 928 yesterday and it does sound tired compared to what it used to. Surprisingly 841-850 aren’t sounding as tired but I guess they had at least 2 years out on light work.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Two photos have been posted on Flickr by David Beardmore confirming that two of the BZLs have registration plates SJ24 HXA and SJ24 HXB
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/53843982359/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/53842732142/

 

[Resuwen]

Looks like Lothian spec is no longer for glazed staircases.

The Wrights had them down the years.

The XLBs had them.

The 400MMCs didn’t.

The BZL demo did.

The BZL batch don’t.

 

[stevenedin]

Two photos have been posted on Flickr by David Beardmore confirming that two of the BZLs have registration plates SJ24 HXA and SJ24 HXB
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/53843982359/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/53842732142/

Looks great. I’m looking forward for them to enter service. Loving the new livery

 

[computerSaysNo]

Looks like Lothian spec is no longer for glazed staircases.

The Wrights had them down the years.

The XLBs had them.

The 400MMCs didn’t.

The BZL demo did.

The BZL batch don’t.

That is a shame, as it helped set them apart from most other areas in Scotland.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Two photos have been posted on Flickr by David Beardmore confirming that two of the BZLs have registration plates SJ24 HXA and SJ24 HXB
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/53843982359/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/53842732142/

What is interesting about HXA is that it has no seating.

 

[Resuwen]

What is interesting about HXA is that it has no seating.

Presumably it’s at that location to be fitted out

 

[computerSaysNo]

What is interesting about HXA is that it has no seating.

[silly] No no, you misunderstand: it has fold-away seating. It's a trial on a new type - it folds into the wall, if the bus is quiet then passengers board and unfold their own seat and it folds away again on its own when they get off. If the bus gets too busy then the driver presses a button and all the seats fold away - you can get many more people standing that way!

[/silly]

 

[Bus9120UK]

Presumably it’s at that location to be fitted out

From what I understood the buses were delivered but they had been built to the wrong spec in some respect, so they were sent back to have this sorted. Perhaps seating layout was part of this.
I don't see why they wouldn't have been fitted in Egypt?

 

[Resuwen]

Given the delays and glitches like that I wonder if Lothian will stick with MCV in future or go back to Wright or Alexander

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Given the delays and glitches like that I wonder if Lothian will stick with MCV in future or go back to Wright or Alexander

They’ll have no choice but to stick with MCV. Wright and ADL don’t body Volvo chassis’ anymore as far as I’m led to believe. Instead offering their own integral bus.