Luggage on trains… bikes now take priority?

[tankmc]

Just disembarked a full Greater Anglia FLIRT train going from Stanstead Airport to Norwich.

1 Bike area (the train has 2) was filled with neatly stacked luggage. Conductor comes down the train demanding everyone moves the luggage as it’s a bike space - despite no bikes on the tran. A passenger asked where do you want the luggage to go? The are no luggage racks.

The conductor says they should go above the seats. (Many of the bags were large suitcases that clearly would not fit.

Various passangers begin arguing, and things get irate. Eventually it calms down, luggage is left in the bike space and the train fills even more.

Arrival into Ely, one bike space is filled with luggage the other with people sitting on the flip down seats and sanding. 2 bikes are on the platform and the conductor then comes out demanding everyone moves and the luggage is removed for the bikes.

Of course everyone moves the bags to in front of the doors clogging everything up!

So my questions are

Who has priority? The conductor said bikes have priority over passangers sitting down and luggage as it’s a bike space.

Who designed an a airport train with no luggage storage yet space for 6 bikes?

And, should we start charging for bikes? They take up the space of 4 seats per bike space.

 

[dk1]

They should never have put tip up seats in the cycle area either. Causes more trouble than a little for the poor traincrew having to shift passengers when cyclists board. Trains passing through Cambridge are always busy with bikes. The route through here has been even more difficult today for GA Norwich services due to industrial action at XC.

They are not designated airport trains just a common user regional fleet.

 

[3rd rail land]

Just disembarked a full Greater Anglia FLIRT train going from Stanstead Airport to Norwich.

1 Bike area (the train has 2) was filled with neatly stacked luggage. Conductor comes down the train demanding everyone moves the luggage as it’s a bike space - despite no bikes on the tran. A passenger asked where do you want the luggage to go? The are no luggage racks.

The conductor says they should go above the seats. (Many of the bags were large suitcases that clearly would not fit.

Various passangers begin arguing, and things get irate. Eventually it calms down, luggage is left in the bike space and the train fills even more.

Arrival into Ely, one bike space is filled with luggage the other with people sitting on the flip down seats and sanding. 2 bikes are on the platform and the conductor then comes out demanding everyone moves and the luggage is removed for the bikes.

Of course everyone moves the bags to in front of the doors clogging everything up!

So my questions are

Who has priority? The conductor said bikes have priority over passengers sitting down and luggage as it’s a bike space.

Who designed an a airport train with no luggage storage yet space for 6 bikes?

And, should we start charging for bikes? They take up the space of 4 seats per bike space.

I believe that bikes do have priority over other luggage and passengers but as you experienced it is hard work for the traincrew to enforce this. Not sure if spaces are reservable on GA but passengers won't know if a bike will board and when during the journey so it wouldn't help the traincrew.

As already mentioned these are not airport trains but a regional train which explains the shortage on luggage space on airport services. The solution would be take out a handful of seats and put in luggage stacks but we all know that isn't going to happen so this issue is going to continue to occur for the foreseeable future. Perhaps one of the bike areas could be designated as luggage space but then again I don't know how many people will bikes travel on the routes served with these trains.

I am not sure charging for bikes is going to solve the problem. I reckon most people that take bikes on regional services would be happy to pay a small fee to bring their bike onboard but would then probably get pretty irate if the space tehy had paid for was filled was luggage and/or passengers. the issue you experienced is still going to occur whether a charge is levied on bikes or not.

Ultimately I don't think there is a viable solution that would solve the issue you witnessed, at least not unless some seats were removed and replaced with luggage stacks.

 

[Western 52]

The answer to the bike issue, which I know isn't going to happen, is to bring back van areas like we had years ago. In the 1980s we travelled all over the UK on trains with bikes and rarely had any space problems.

I did notice bikes being carried in the DVT of a TfW class 67 service last week, and there's plenty of room there. Not many trains like that though these days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course bicycles have priority in areas labelled for that purpose. Why would they not? Though it's at least less of an issue than putting it in wheelchair space, as most cyclists are able enough to simply move the errant luggage.

I don't know the situation on that train, but it is true that most people are too lazy to put even quite small bags in the overheads. FLIRTs have large overheads and even large suitcases will fit.

I do wish they'd not put tip up seats in those spaces though, that does cause conflict as some people prefer them.

 

[Peter Fox]

FLIRTs have large overheads and even large suitcases will fit.

And everyone is a weightlifter. And dropping a suitcase on somebody will never happen.
Prams and buggies fly up to the overhead racks on their own!

 

[Bletchleyite]

And everyone is a weightlifter. And dropping a suitcase on somebody will never happen.

Most people these days travel with an airline hand luggage sized case. Most people can easily lift these, as they chose them to be able to do exactly that on an aircraft.

Prams and buggies fly up to the overhead racks on their own!

Prams and buggies are not typically very heavy. Nobody uses a classic Silver Cross any more - they're all designed to separate and fold and be lightweight so as to be easily carried by small car, and the effect of that is that they can on public transport, too.

 

[hexagon789]

And everyone is a weightlifter. And dropping a suitcase on somebody will never happen.
Prams and buggies fly up to the overhead racks on their own!

The following luggage items are not permitted on trains:

• You may not bring any items that you cannot carry without assistance

 

[Falcon1200]

More than once, with my bike, I have joined a train with a dedicated bike space only to find it blocked by people and/or their luggage. Recently I boarded at origin but before I could put my bike in its space, it was already occupied by pushchairs! To be fair, the owners did offer to move them, but as I know which side the platforms are on my route I simply stood in the unused doorway.

 

[tankmc]

Most people these days travel with an airline hand luggage sized case. Most people can easily lift these, as they chose them to be able to do exactly that on an aircraft.

In what reality do "Most people these days travel with an airline hand luggage sized case" when going holiday for a week? This is a train that goes to the airport. I would love to know what research you used for this? Probably the same research most train companies used when deciding to put next to zero luggage storage on trains.

 

[HSTEd]

I'm not sure "carrying without assistance" is the same as "must be able to lift into an overhead rack".

Those two things are fundamentally different, and I'm of the opinion that overhead racks are of questionable utility regardless, given the difficulties of actually using them in many cases.
In most cases we would do better to have taller seats in the train and additional storage under seats.

EDIT:

There is a world of difference between "I can carry this duffel bag" and "I am confident to lift this duffel bag above my head on a train that is moving and where any mistake will drop it on someone's head".

 

[Malaxa]

While it is peak holiday season, there has been in recent years an increase in the size of luggage being carted on and off planes and cruises [and thus into trains] thanks to the development of those huge 4-wheel suitcases which a lot of people can't even lift and probably weigh much more than a bicycle [not that weight is the problem here]

 

[Bletchleyite]

In what reality do "Most people these days travel with an airline hand luggage sized case" when going holiday for a week? This is a train that goes to the airport. I would love to know what research you used for this? Probably the same research most train companies used when deciding to put next to zero luggage storage on trains.

It's what I see on trains all the time. People have got used to airline restrictions and tend to use 55x40x20 sort of sized cases for most things and economise on packing.

Yesterday for instance I had my 120l rucksack but almost everyone else had one of those trolleys, the overhead was full of them. Those habits have even shifted with families - each family member will have their own case like that rather than one or two big cases for everyone, sometimes something like a Trunki for the really little kids.

Not totally universal, which is why we have ground level luggage stacks (often not enough of them) but half the time those are full of IATA size bags and medium holdalls which could go up.

 

[PedroHav]

Most people these days travel with an airline hand luggage sized case. Most people can easily lift these, as they chose them to be able to do exactly that on an aircraft.

I disagree with that statement.

We have the same situation on Southern with the trains going through Gatwick. So many people are taking suitcases with them and they end up on the seats ... because the announcements say 'keep your personal items with you at all times'.
There is not a designated bike area and hardly any storage.

Any train with an airport stop needs to provide luggage space.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree with that statement.

We have the same situation on Southern with the trains going through Gatwick. So many people are taking suitcases with them and they end up on the seats ... because the announcements say 'keep your personal items with you at all times'.
There is not a designated bike area and hardly any storage.

Any train with an airport stop needs to provide luggage space.

Certainly there's an issue with Electrostars having very small overheads. Fortunately that isn't so of most other designs.

 

[startingaparty]

I was on a Northern Class 331 train the other week and there were two ladies sat down on the fold-down seats. A man boarded the train with his bike and initially was stood in the vestuible with it. He asks if he can sit there. He made them both get up and move down the carriage so he could put his bike there! Honestly, I was astounded. I would have said something had it of been me.

 

[jagardner1984]

I must say without wishing to poke the cycling bear …. It seems an odd idea to me that someone travelling with a handbag and occupying a seat with their bay stowed in the footwell would be charged the same as either someone travelling with large 32kg luggage (or more), or indeed a cycle which takes the space of … some passengers. If I go to the airport, which this post refers to, I would expect the amount I travel with to affect the price I pay. Whether or not the rolling stock is correctly designed for either the route or the expected balance of non human objects travelling, it seems odd passengers can occupy wildly different amounts of space with no cost or other repercussions; and for any of those non human objects to result in other paying passengers standing …. *

*Obvious exemption for those who do not have a choice as to how they travel, eg wheelchair users or young babies in pushchairs.

Without wishing to deviate into speculative discussion, one wonders if the “Highland Explorer” sets which effectively provide a travelling rack for bikes and other sports equipment, might be a good use of some otherwise redundant rolling stock where platform lengths allow. From what I’ve heard and read, it seems to work quite well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was on a Northern Class 331 train the other week and there were two ladies sat down on the fold-down seats. A man boarded the train with his bike and initially was stood in the vestuible with it. He asks if he can sit there. He made them both get up and move down the carriage so he could put his bike there! Honestly, I was astounded. I would have said something had it of been me.

That space is designated for bike use, as the safe place to put a bike without obstructing a vestibule. Thus he was completely right to do so, particularly if other seats were available.

The tip-ups really should be removed, and then the space would only be otherwise occupied by standees, and if it was so busy that people were standing there and couldn't move, the bike probably shouldn't board anyway.

 

[Malaxa]

I was on a Northern Class 331 train the other week and there were two ladies sat down on the fold-down seats. A man boarded the train with his bike and initially was stood in the vestuible with it. He asks if he can sit there. He made them both get up and move down the carriage so he could put his bike there! Honestly, I was astounded. I would have said something had it of been me.

So there were other seats available?? What was the passengers' attraction of the fold-down seats in which they were "sat", i.e. sitting?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So there were other seats available?? What was the attraction of the passengers "sat", i.e. sitting, in the fold-down seats?

It is an area for bicycles, where the seats are only supposed to be used if not required for bicycles. There will be signage of that nature there.

 

[jon0844]

I was on a Northern Class 331 train the other week and there were two ladies sat down on the fold-down seats. A man boarded the train with his bike and initially was stood in the vestuible with it. He asks if he can sit there. He made them both get up and move down the carriage so he could put his bike there! Honestly, I was astounded. I would have said something had it of been me.

What would you have said? It sounds like everything went just fine. Anything you said would likely have just caused an unnecessary nuisance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What would you have said? It sounds like everything went just fine. Anything you said would likely have just caused an unnecessary nuisance.

I think there is a distinct anti bicycle undertone there.

I once had someone ask me to move my bike so they could sit there, I pointed to the sign and told them not to be silly.

 

[dk1]

It is an area for bicycles, where the seats are only supposed to be used if not required for bicycles. There will be signage of that nature there.

Exactly mate. As staff we all were shocked they decided to install these seats in such a ridiculous location. That also includes doorways. Seems like somebody was trying to impress the DfT.

 

[Krokodil]

Who designed an a airport train with no luggage storage yet space for 6 bikes?

The public complains about having to stand on trains, so franchise specifications encouraged seats to be wedged absolutely everywhere, even if it makes things operationally difficult (vestibule jump seats are a pain). All so that politicians can claim "there will be x thousand more seats per day" (or some other daft metric). You can't put a jump seat in a luggage stack.

Prams and buggies are not typically very heavy. Nobody uses a classic Silver Cross any more - they're all designed to separate and fold and be lightweight so as to be easily carried by small car, and the effect of that is that they can on public transport, too.

And yet if you tell someone that they will need to fold their pram in order to safely accommodate it in a cramped 158 they look at you as if you have two heads. Most prams seem to be bought because the brand is fashionable, rather than because they are practical for public transport.

So there were other seats available?? What was the attraction of the passengers "sat", i.e. sitting, in the fold-down seats?

Beats me, but it happens all of the time. People seem to ignore dozens of available proper seats and go straight to the jump seats, ending up with longer dwell times because they block bike spaces and vestibules.

 

[transportphoto]

I know of one TOC looking to block out bike reservations to allow the space to be used by luggage… whether that’s happened as yet, I’m not sure.

 

[Sleepy]

Since Covid the tip up vestibule seats have become more popular - Some people seem prefer them rather than sit next to stranger even on moderately loaded services.

 

[RailWonderer]

They should never have put tip up seats in the cycle area either. Causes more trouble than a little for the poor traincrew having to shift passengers when cyclists board. Trains passing through Cambridge are always busy with bikes. The route through here has been even more difficult today for GA Norwich services due to industrial action at XC.

They are not designated airport trains just a common user regional fleet.

This route has become substantially busier since the extension to Stansted. Using it twice from Whittlesford to Cambridge I found it nearly full and standing and from Cambridge it's bedlam at certain hours. Tip up seats I believe were a requirement for minimum number of seats per coach when the trains were ordered.

 

[dk1]

This route has become substantially busier since the extension to Stansted. Using it twice from Whittlesford to Cambridge I found it nearly full and standing and from Cambridge it's bedlam at certain hours. Tip up seats I believe were a requirement for minimum number of seats per coach when the trains were ordered.

Yes they were much as it was not the right thing to do with the entire Stadler fleet at this TOC.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Yes they were much as it was not the right thing to do with the entire Stadler fleet at this TOC.

But it helps the DFT and GA sell the fact that there's more seats and space for bikes.. I've never seen it mentioned it's either or situation... I'll bet they we're counting them as the extra seats into London even though they can't be used if there's a bike in the way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll bet they we're counting them as the extra seats into London even though they can't be used if there's a bike in the way.

Taking into account when they were ordered, the busy trains were the peak-time ones into London on which bikes are not permitted, so that made some level of sense. The tip-ups would be OK if they were locked by staff at times when bicycles are permitted.

Things have changed a bit since then, though.