Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

[LNW-GW Joint]

Indeed it is competition, which is why the DFT will complain and make LNER react accordingly.

My point was that DfT can't complain to Lumo or ORR, that dialogue was had before the Lumo paths were approved.
DfT already owns LNER and essentially sets the timetable and fares (and the level of premium returned).
That role will pass to GBR eventually, but it's up to them to decide service levels and fares in the mix with Lumo.
Avanti are in the mix too, with an interest in the London-Edinburgh market.

 

[takno]

Unless they are already waiting at Kings Cross or Waverley a lot of those unable to get a seat on Lumo would probably still choose the plane. A reasonable number of people won’t take costs of getting to and from the airport into consideration, and a number of people will also live closer to the airport than the station anyway.

If LNER don’t want to lower their fares they’ll need to hope there’s enough additional demand to/from York to fill the seats vacated by those switching to Lumo for the Newcastle and Edinburgh journeys.

A lot of people aren't completely driven by cost to the point of saving a fiver on thr trip. They're flying because they believe it's a fraction of the cost, based on previous encounters with train fares where the single was only 10p cheaper than the return, or where they couldn't get an advance the night before. The half-return-price singles and on-the-day advances have changed the economics of LNER travel completely in the last 3 years, people will simply never have checked.

Once you get into the habit of only checking air fares and expecting to arrive at an airport then LNER don't get a look in - even I've been in the habit in the past of always booking BA and falling back to easyJet. If instead you are used to looking for a train ticket and arriving at Kings Cross, then LNER become the default second option.

Given that the Lumo operation is never going to be given more than a fraction of the paths LNER have, then any money they spend on modal shift of passengers is really just gravy from LNER's point of view

 

[Ianno87]

A lot of people aren't completely driven by cost to the point of saving a fiver on thr trip. They're flying because they believe it's a fraction of the cost, based on previous encounters with train fares where the single was only 10p cheaper than the return, or where they couldn't get an advance the night before. The half-return-price singles and on-the-day advances have changed the economics of LNER travel completely in the last 3 years, people will simply never have checked.

Once you get into the habit of only checking air fares and expecting to arrive at an airport then LNER don't get a look in - even I've been in the habit in the past of always booking BA and falling back to easyJet. If instead you are used to looking for a train ticket and arriving at Kings Cross, then LNER become the default second option.

Given that the Lumo operation is never going to be given more than a fraction of the paths LNER have, then any money they spend on modal shift of passengers is really just gravy from LNER's point of view

This is why I think Lumo are right to be introducing now, even though it might be weird during the post-Covid recovery.

Normal flight schedules and pricing are so messed up that such people probably now will check the train...and find competitive prices and timings.

 

[XAM2175]

Once you get into the habit of only checking air fares and expecting to arrive at an airport then LNER don't get a look in - even I've been in the habit in the past of always booking BA and falling back to easyJet. If instead you are used to looking for a train ticket and arriving at Kings Cross, then LNER become the default second option.

This is a very important point.

 

[AlterEgo]

Only 30 minute DR rather than 15. A little disappointing considering the direction the rest of the industry has gone in.

Almost nobody who travels with LUMO is going to factor this is, and in any case, aligns with LNER.

 

[BayPaul]

Once you get into the habit of only checking air fares and expecting to arrive at an airport then LNER don't get a look in - even I've been in the habit in the past of always booking BA and falling back to easyJet. If instead you are used to looking for a train ticket and arriving at Kings Cross, then LNER become the default second option

I wonder if Lumo could manage to get their prices and schedules into airline systems, like skyscanner. That could make a big difference.

 

[takno]

I wonder if Lumo could manage to get their prices and schedules into airline systems, like skyscanner. That could make a big difference.

I don't think that would be particularly difficult, although a combination of the takeover by ctrip and coronavirus has turned Skyscanner in Edinburgh into a relatively bare-bones operation right now, so it might not be as easy as it would have been two or three years ago.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Yes, you need to click on the "view more" option:
View attachment 102378

Lumo-only walkup fares are then shown, although it's far from clear that these tickets are restricted to Lumo services:

View attachment 102379

And the term "ECTL ONLY" is not going to mean anything to 99% of passengers:

View attachment 102380

Trainline are now selling the LumoFixed tickets; however their white label site (used by XC, Northern, Scotrail etc.) is still only showing the walkup fares. TrainSplit are only showing Lumo's walkup fares and MixingDeck based sites (used by GWR, SWR & TPE) aren't showing Lumo's flexible or Advance fares at all.


The fares have been uploaded. BR Fares only shows fares that are available for travel today. LumoFixed tickets are shown on BR Fares because they are, theoretically, available for travel today - there are just no publicly advertised services, hence you can't buy them. Whereas the flexible fares are only available for purchase from 25 October, so will only appear on BR Fares on that date.


Lumo have had to fit within the existing ECML timetable, which wasn't designed to accommodate an additional fast service. When the ECML recast eventually happens, Lumo should get some better paths, although they will inevitably still have some pathing ("slack"). There are also a number of limitations on the calls they are allowed to make due to their access rights.

I have been on the Lumo website and I cannot for the life of me find any cheap fares. I thought they had finally been released? They can’t have sold out for literally every single day

 

[JonathanH]

I have been on the Lumo website and I cannot for the life of me find any cheap fares. I thought they had finally been released? They can’t have sold out for literally every single day

Try Newcastle to Edinburgh.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Try Newcastle to Edinburgh.

Still literally nothing. God knows where the tickets are then. I’ve tried many different dates and filtered by Lumo

 

[Blindtraveler]

An experience like this would not look good to a passenger that might have been persuaded to at least spend 15 minutes looking at the website before returning to the safe haven of easyJet for another 60 lb London return jobby.

I'm becoming inclines to agree with those that say that first groups lack of innovation here will be the ultimate death of this service

 

[Eboordna]

Still literally nothing. God knows where the tickets are then. I’ve tried many different dates and filtered by Lumo

Have you made sure you search for a time and date they’re operating as in their timetable page? And avoided the engineering dates?

 

[johnnychips]

Still literally nothing. God knows where the tickets are then. I’ve tried many different dates and filtered by Lumo

I got £152 on their 1045 from London to Morpeth on 3/11. The 1100 LNER service was £41, with a change.

An article in Metro written on Thursday says:

‘Lumo has promised that all single trips before 1 December will cost £19.90 or less as long as they are booked at least the day before, with the most a person will pay booking on the same date of travel being £69’.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Have you made sure you search for a time and date they’re operating as in their timetable page? And avoided the engineering dates?

Of course. I have literally tried everything from their launch date into mid November

 

[DanNCL]

Has anyone tried reporting this to Lumo? It could be an error, I'd certainly hope it would be an error anyway!

 

[Class360/1]

Yeah, whenever I try it always says £0.00 when I try to book something and it didn’t give me any services to choose from

 

[Eboordna]

Definitely looks like an error, was working fine when I looked on Friday

 

[JonathanH]

Still literally nothing. God knows where the tickets are then. I’ve tried many different dates and filtered by Lumo

It needs to be after 25 October but searching at 13:30 on 24 November I get £4.90 for a single from Newcastle to Edinburgh on the 13:47 departure.

 

[takno]

It isn't even listing the 69 quid lumo-specific fare, so I suspect it is a bug tbh.

 

[VideozVideoz]

It needs to be after 25 October but searching at 13:30 on 24 November I get £4.90 for a single from Newcastle to Edinburgh on the 13:47 departure.

Yay! One of the few elusive Lumo tickets available

 

[takno]

It is entirely possible that it's all sold out of course. 20 quid is *very* cheap

 

[superalbs]

It does appear that they've changed the names of the ticket since I last checked (brfares.com), so maybe that is something to do with it? The walk-ups aren't on there at all.

 

[Alex365Dash]

It does appear that they've changed the names of the ticket since I last checked (brfares.com), so maybe that is something to do with it? The walk-ups aren't on there at all.

BRFares only shows tickets for immediate travel - you can’t buy Lumo walk-ups for travel today, so they simply won’t show until the 25th October.

 

[pethadine82]

The journey times are very slow

 

[alistairlees]

I expect this is a problem with the set up of the quota-controlled fares in RARS2 (the Rail Availability and Reservations System); there are many potential causes of this. There is still space on their trains on many (if not all) dates. I'd expect this to be fixed tomorrow in all likelihood.

 

[island]

BRFares only shows tickets for immediate travel

That isn’t correct.

 

[Alex365Dash]

That isn’t correct.

Sorry, should have mentioned that by that I didn’t mean walk-ups - I’ll try my best to rephrase:

I believe BRFares only shows tickets that are in the fares system to travel on that day - so this will include every ticket of which you could’ve purchased in advance for travel on that day (as well as some others which exist in the fares system that can be issued for travel that day, but not purchased through normal methods, such as tour operator package tickets, and some tickets which are restricted by day of the week, such as SWR’s Sunday Out tickets), which includes Advances, but doesn’t include tickets like Lumo’s walk-up fares.

 

[Pinza-C55]

That whole page is just bizarre. I've never once felt like I was a prisoner on a train, just because there are "guards" on board!

Your name vill go on ze list.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Soggy chips on the catering menu?
_"don't tell him pike"

 

[Bosch91]

Has anyone seen the lumo YouTube channel. Looks like they’ve employed some bored children to produce them.
Actually I take that back, some bored children would have done a much much better job!