Making good value tickets hard to buy

[Tazi Hupefi]

If anyone is missing the point, it's you - I was quoting from your post where you said:

Are you now saying that was a reference to a product that is only available to staff, and therefore is not a 'normal' ranger or rover? If that's the case they are special products provided as a staff benefit and therefore irrelevant to the discussion in hand, as the level of sales will have no impact on their provision.

New Mills Central to Sheffield is £14.30.

30p more than a Derbyshire Wayfarer.

Does that count?

No, it doesn't count, because it's essentially a PTE/Local authority ticket and not an actual rail industry ranger/rover and thus is not a product the rail industry can promote or control itself. This thread is mainly about why such tickets aren't promoted - and it's because certain forum members don't seem capable of understanding that there are significant differences between a PTE/local authority product and an actual commercially priced and created rail ranger/rover that a TOC, or group of TOCs, has full control over.

However, even for that example, that is one of the tickets where some passengers will happily pay the extra 30p for something that is more familiar to them, i.e. a normal return. There are examples of this all over society - people like familiarity with simpler, more convenient concepts, especially when the price difference is so minimal.

 

[WelshBluebird]

and it's because certain forum members don't seem capable of understanding that there are significant differences between a PTE/local authority product and an actual commercially priced and created rail ranger/rover that a TOC, or group of TOCs, has full control over.

Are you actually claiming that ToCs are literally not able to promote such tickets? I'd be very suprised if that is true.

However, even for that example, that is one of the tickets where some passengers will happily pay the extra 30p for something that is more familiar to them, i.e. a normal return. There are examples of this all over society - people like familiarity with simpler, more convenient concepts, especially when the price difference is so minimal.

Or maybe people just aren't aware of the cheaper ticket ans if they were aware of it then they would opt for that

 

[Haywain]

Or maybe people just aren't aware of the cheaper ticket ans if they were aware of it then they would opt for that

No, some people genuinely choose to pay a small amount extra for something they actually understand.

 

[WelshBluebird]

No, some people genuinely choose to pay a small amount extra for something they actually understand.

What is hard to understand about "you can use any bus and train in this area"?

 

[Haywain]

What is hard to understand about "you can use any bus and train in this area"?

Nothing to you and me but some people just don't get that kind of thing. And while they might try and get their head round it to save several pounds, they won't for a few pence.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Are you actually claiming that ToCs are literally not able to promote such tickets? I'd be very suprised if that is true.

Or maybe people just aren't aware of the cheaper ticket ans if they were aware of it then they would opt for that

First, the copyright amongst other rights and obligations belongs to whoever controls the product.

Whilst TOCs would (and do occasionally) happily put up posters produced by the local PTE/authority - it would be a truly awful idea if you let individual operators (and not just rail) unilaterally promote someone else's product/scheme. Control over a brand is exceptionally important in terms of consistency, ownership and customer confidence - and that's before you get into the issues around accuracy and terms and conditions.

If a PTE changed a price or validity, not only would they need confidence that their own publicity had been updated, but how would they control a situation where third parties like TOCs have made their own content? Are they going to reimburse the TOC for having to redo everything again? If a TOC keeps the old prices and conditions up, who is liable if a customer sees that incorrect information?

Especially in schemes involving lots of different operators, you absolutely must have a single, consistent and centralised marketing operation, if indeed you have one at all.

 

[Deerfold]

First, the copyright amongst other rights and obligations belongs to whoever controls the product.

Whilst TOCs would (and do occasionally) happily put up posters produced by the local PTE/authority - it would be a truly awful idea if you let individual operators (and not just rail) unilaterally promote someone else's product/scheme. Control over a brand is exceptionally important in terms of consistency, ownership and customer confidence - and that's before you get into the issues around accuracy and terms and conditions.

If a PTE changed a price or validity, not only would they need confidence that their own publicity had been updated, but how would they control a situation where third parties like TOCs have made their own content? Are they going to reimburse the TOC for having to redo everything again? If a TOC keeps the old prices and conditions up, who is liable if a customer sees that incorrect information?

Especially in schemes involving lots of different operators, you absolutely must have a single, consistent and centralised marketing operation, if indeed you have one at all.

As I've commented earlier in the thread, in West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester the former PTE products are controlled by a company with shares held by all the local bus operators and TOCs.

Certainly in West Yorkshire it's common to see adverts for these products on buses - often on the same advert as one with that operator's products (occasionally with an out of date price). I don't see why the rail operators couldn't also advertise them.

 

[infobleep]

Again you're confusing PTE style multi modal products which ARE NOT ranger or rover tickets, except in name only, to make them fit into existing ticketing systems. The TOCs have absolutely ZERO input into how they are priced or marketed. However, even the biggest one of all, the London Travelcard, is on it's way out. I suspect most TOCs want nothing to do with these schemes, as they abstract revenue and only accept because their franchise or whatever agreement tells them to.

Well as the government takes the revenue now why should they care as much about the travel card scheme abstracting money from them? Surely it's abstracting money from the government.