"Man entered train drivers cabin, switched off breaks and 'began moving controls'"

[PyrahnaRanger]

A friend of mine knew someone who, having missed his last bus home, 'borrowed' one from another route and drove off, only to belly it on a hump-back bridge; he legged it and wasn't caught. This would have been sometime in the 1960s. To return to the original subject, have there been instances when an unauthorised person has driven off a train either from a station or a depot? If there were, what were the consequences?

In the early days of my Dad running a coach company, he came home from dropping people off after a wedding reception. Rather than clean the coach at half two in the morning, he left it outside the house and went to bed.

He was awakened at around four by various air brake and horn noises outside the house. Upon inspection, all the lights on the coach were on, the heaters were spooling up, the radio playing… and in the driver’s seat, a very drunk punter who’d fallen asleep, and was now trying to make his way home, a task which the local constabulary eventually assisted him with!

 

[jfowkes]

You have to really want to steal the train and do some research prior as to what train to take and from where. You’re not going far if you just rock up and jump on the first 150 you see at your local station.

If you're cunning, you can steal a train by applying to TOCs for driver training, passing all the tests and getting a job. If you are careful to only drive the train where and when the TOC and signallers want you to, you can get away with stealing loads of trains all the time and they'll even pay you to do it, the fools!

 

[Towers]

If you're cunning, you can steal a train by applying to TOCs for driver training, passing all the tests and getting a job. If you are careful to only drive the train where and when the TOC and signallers want you to, you can get away with stealing loads of trains all the time and they'll even pay you to do it, the fools!

That might explain some blokes who “drive it like they stole it…”

 

[43066]

If you're cunning, you can steal a train by applying to TOCs for driver training, passing all the tests and getting a job. If you are careful to only drive the train where and when the TOC and signallers want you to, you can get away with stealing loads of trains all the time and they'll even pay you to do it, the fools!

But ironically by that stage you’ll be working hard to avoid driving trains .

 

[Signal_Box]

If you're cunning, you can steal a train by applying to TOCs for driver training, passing all the tests and getting a job. If you are careful to only drive the train where and when the TOC and signallers want you to, you can get away with stealing loads of trains all the time and they'll even pay you to do it, the fools!

yes ! LOL

 

[Horizon22]

Unit stabled away from depot, completely shut down. No power, so you're leaving the doors unlocked and train unattended in your scenario. Not very wise...

There's a difference between a driver's cab being locked and the whole train and passenger doors being locked.

 

[Chiltern 165]

If you know what your doing, stealing a train can be quite easy - as they all use the same type of key. All it takes is a good TSW player to move a train without it stopping/

If you know what your doing, stealing a train can be quite easy - as they all use the same type of key. All it takes is a good TSW player to move a train without it stopping/

Alot of enthusiasts (including myself) own a general master key for all UK trains (I believe its called an EP key.)

 

[Pompey00]

They wouldn’t be able to take a train without the drivers key anyway surely then again probably easy get ahold of or make

 

[randyrippley]

Alot of enthusiasts (including myself) own a general master key for all UK trains (I believe its called an EP key.)

And how do you justify having that?

 

[greatkingrat]

And how do you justify having that?

Why does he need to justify it? Possession of a key is not illegal.

 

[Chiltern 165]

They wouldn’t be able to take a train without the drivers key anyway surely then again probably easy get ahold of or make

drivers often hand out spare keys

And how do you justify having that?

I dont need to justify owning random things, thats like asking "And how do you justify owning Train Sim World 4, thats a manual on how to hijack trains."

 

[Pompey00]

It’s not illegal to have them just aslong as you don’t use it as then you’d be breaking the law and your entering a prohibited bit and tampering with equipment and controls etc but having them as collectibles should be fine

 

[Chiltern 165]

It’s not illegal to have them just aslong as you don’t use it as then you’d be breaking the law and your entering a prohibited bit and tampering with equipment and controls etc but having them as collectibles should be fine

yeah exactly, i might go to a heritage railway and ask them if i can test it

 

[Pompey00]

yeah exactly, i might go to a heritage railway and ask them if i can test it

Yh it’s just down to them whether they let you

 

[randyrippley]

I dont need to justify owning random things, thats like asking "And how do you justify owning Train Sim World 4, thats a manual on how to hijack trains."

No, it's more analogous to justifying having a master key that opens every car, or every house, or every shop......

Carrying it with you could certainly be construed as "going prepared for theft", just as if you were carrying something else that defeated locks, like a jemmy or crowbar

 

[Pompey00]

Such a security risk now a days as they are easy to get hold off and would be impossible to change every single lock on the trains to replace it with new keys same with the br1 locks used at stations and even if they could people would still find a way to get them whether it’s online or from a friend/family on the railway people can find a way in as they can be clever with that sort of thing.

And if caught doing so will deal with the real consequences.

 

[43066]

No, it's more analogous to justifying having a master key that opens every car, or every house, or every shop......

It isn’t, because such keys aren’t freely available to buy online! To be fair I do agree with @Chiltern 165 that he doesn’t need to justify owning it. However I hope he would show appropriate discretion in not carrying it openly on trains if he isn’t involved in their operation.

Carrying it with you could certainly be construed as "going prepared for theft", just as if you were carrying something else that defeated locks, like a jemmy or crowbar

I think this is 2+2 = 6.

 

[Chiltern 165]

It isn’t, because such keys aren’t freely available to buy online! To be fair I do agree with @Chiltern 165 that he doesn’t need to justify owning it. However I hope he would show appropriate discretion in not carrying it openly on trains if he isn’t involved in their operation.



I think this is 2+2 = 6.

i agree with this completely, only time i showed staff is the same journey i was given it (a caledonian sleeper service, ironic given the post title lol)

Such a security risk now a days as they are easy to get hold off and would be impossible to change every single lock on the trains to replace it with new keys same with the br1 locks used at stations and even if they could people would still find a way to get them whether it’s online or from a friend/family on the railway people can find a way in as they can be clever with that sort of thing.

And if caught doing so will deal with the real consequences.

trains arent easy to steal, to move a train you need to be a rail enthusiast, or in the industry - the majority of trains are under security at all times

 

[Pompey00]

i agree with this completely, only time i showed staff is the same journey i was given it (a caledonian sleeper service, ironic given the post title lol)


trains arent easy to steal, to move a train you need to be a rail enthusiast, or in the industry - the majority of trains are under security at all times

True that but the wrong people with these items will try

 

[12LDA28C]

drivers often hand out spare keys

To members of the public? They really don't.

yeah exactly, i might go to a heritage railway and ask them if i can test it

Good luck with that.

the majority of trains are under security at all times

Are they? What kind of 'security'?

 

[Pompey00]

In past threads I’ve read that people have got into cabins, panels and unauthorised areas such as station compounds etc just by using tools and other objects whether that’s true or have accidently been left open and they’ve got in we’ll never know

 

[Chiltern 165]

To members of the public? They really don't.



Good luck with that.



Are they? What kind of 'security'?

at depots normal security

True that but the wrong people with these items will try

Yeah true, but if someone wants to break into a train so much they would just do a more typical way (like forcing their way in)

 

[12LDA28C]

at depots normal security

Ah of course. And trains never leave the Depot, no? What about at stations?

 

[Chiltern 165]

In past threads I’ve read that people have got into cabins, panels and unauthorised areas such as station compounds etc just by using tools and other objects whether that’s true or have accidently been left open and they’ve got in we’ll never know

Yeah, what i feel some people are missing is the fact that its easier to break into a train/station than to obtain a key from a nice driver

Ah of course. And trains never leave the Depot, no? What about at stations?

"Majority of trains" (I'm talking about stabled trains in this context.)

 

[Pompey00]

Yeah, what i feel some people are missing is the fact that its easier to break into a train/station than to obtain a key from a nice driver


"Majority of trains" (I'm talking about stabled trains in this context.)

I mean people have been known to sell or give them away but like we say breaking in is probably easy option for those who don’t have a key

 

[Chiltern 165]

I mean people have been known to sell them or give away but like we say breaking in is probably easy option for those who don’t have a key

Yeah, if you want to hijack a train in advance your not keeping a close eye on ebay for many months, your instead breaking into the cab of the train while its doing a service.

 

[Pompey00]

Yeah, if you want to hijack a train in advance your not keeping a close eye on ebay for many months, your instead breaking into the cab of the train while its doing a service.

Exactly seems like we’re probably gonna hear more of
It over the news

 

[12LDA28C]

Yeah, what i feel some people are missing is the fact that its easier to break into a train/station than to obtain a key from a nice driver


"Majority of trains" (I'm talking about stabled trains in this context.)

So what kind of security is afforded to a train stabled at a station? Are they locked? Are they under constant video surveillance? Or is there effectively nothing preventing anyone keen to access a driving cab from doing so?

 

[Chiltern 165]

So what kind of security is afforded to a train stabled at a station? Are they locked? Are they under constant video surveillance? Or is there effectively nothing preventing anyone keen to access a driving cab from doing so?

at 4am theres no security I guess? The main security is the threat of prosecution, and the fact that you need to know what your doing to engage a train

 

[Krokodil]

What kind of new tamper- and terrorist-proof security / lock should 'new' traction be fitted with? Bearing in mind that various different manufacturers supply stock to UK operators, would a standard universal key be approved or should a different key be required dependent on type of train, for added 'security'? That's gonna be a lot of keys for some drivers to carry around.

Exactly the same as the guards at one TOC are issued with a common CDL key which works all post-BR traction at that TOC, while at another TOC they have a similar type of key (but different cut) for the same purpose. I'm pretty sure that the cabs of Voyagers have security locks, at least for the access from inside the train, rather than T-key locks. DVT guard vans definitely have proper locks. Coming from the passenger world (where yes, we have powered cab doors where once you press the "close" button it locks when it closes) it seems weird that security is so lax with locos. Surely the external doors have key locks (08s and 67s certainly do) which should be secured if the loco is to be left unsupervised. That applies to the inactive cab too.

Unit stabled away from depot, completely shut down. No power, so you're leaving the doors unlocked and train unattended in your scenario. Not very wise...

Units of a certain generation (I won't mention which ones lest anyone try anything) have easily forceable doors once they lose air.

So what kind of security is afforded to a train stabled at a station? Are they locked? Are they under constant video surveillance? Or is there effectively nothing preventing anyone keen to access a driving cab from doing so?

I can't speak for every TOC, but mine hire security guards when units are stabled at otherwise unmanned locations. More for preventing graffiti than anything.