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"Man entered train drivers cabin, switched off breaks and 'began moving controls'"

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Towers

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So what kind of security is afforded to a train stabled at a station? Are they locked? Are they under constant video surveillance? Or is there effectively nothing preventing anyone keen to access a driving cab from doing so?
There are physical measures as well don’t forget; aside from actually having the knowledge to power up the cab and operate controls sufficiently to get a train moving, there is also the infrastructure - if a train is stabled there’s a good chance that you won’t get very far before you reach a set of points that are facing the wrong way, for example. That could easily have your grand adventure ending up in a slow speed derailment. There is likely to be TPWS involved, you would need to know how to overcome that. And so on. If the aim was simply to cause disruption then you might well achieve that, to some degree, regardless. But if it was a major incident or just a long joyride that you were after, the chances of failure are substantial.

Coming from the passenger world (where yes, we have powered cab doors where once you press the "close" button it locks when it closes) it seems weird that security is so lax with locos. Surely the external doors have key locks (08s and 67s certainly do) which should be secured if the loco is to be left unsupervised. That applies to the inactive cab too.
Freight locos seem to be a different level, I mentioned upthread the regularity with which they (particularly Class 66s!) can be seen wafting around with all the cab doors wide open, both the active cab and at the other end. There appears to be largely zero effort to maintain the security of the cabs, which is a tad alarming given that many of these trains are in and out of secure areas which form part of the national infrastructure, and you might think they’d constitute obvious targets for nefarious behaviour.
 
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12LDA28C

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There are physical measures as well don’t forget; aside from actually having the knowledge to power up the cab and operate controls sufficiently to get a train moving, there is also the infrastructure - if a train is stabled there’s a good chance that you won’t get very far before you reach a set of points that are facing the wrong way, for example. That could easily have your grand adventure ending up in a slow speed derailment. There is likely to be TPWS involved, you would need to know how to overcome that. And so on. If the aim was simply to cause disruption then you might well achieve that, to some degree, regardless. But if it was a major incident or just a long joyride that you were after, the chances of failure are substantial.

I wouldn't expect anyone to get very far with regard to actually 'keying up' a cab and attempting to move the train, but accessing the cab and tripping out a few circuit breakers or similar would be pretty easy to do if you were so inclined. Fortunately I don't believe this is actually a huge problem on the railway and those commenting on here from outside the industry seem to be rather more concerned at the perceived risks involved than those who actually work for TOCs and FOCs.
 

Towers

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I wouldn't expect anyone to get very far with regard to actually 'keying up' a cab and attempting to move the train, but accessing the cab and tripping out a few circuit breakers or similar would be pretty easy to do if you were so inclined. Fortunately I don't believe this is actually a huge problem on the railway and those commenting on here from outside the industry seem to be rather more concerned at the perceived risks involved than those who actually work for TOCs and FOCs.
It isn’t a problem until it is! Much like cockpit security on aircraft. The industry is very heavily security focused, with “WHAT & HOT” etc, and yet the obvious risks associated with cab access - not necessarily in terms of stealing a train! - are an area in which things are clearly lacking. It does require a greater deal of attention.
 

43066

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at 4am theres no security I guess? The main security is the threat of prosecution, and the fact that you need to know what your doing to engage a train

Probably fair to say there’s less than you’d imagine. As demonstrated by how common tagging of trains is, which is a far bigger problem than the risk of hijacking - not that we should be blasé about that, of course.
 

Chiltern 165

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It isn’t a problem until it is! Much like cockpit security on aircraft. The industry is very heavily security focused, with “WHAT & HOT” etc, and yet the obvious risks associated with cab access - not necessarily in terms of stealing a train! - are an area in which things are clearly lacking. It does require a greater deal of attention.
The only difference is planes go at 500 miles per hour, and the fact that getting a train to move/continue moving without training is hard (due to AWS, TPWS, DSD.)
 

eldomtom2

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The only difference is planes go at 500 miles per hour, and the fact that getting a train to move/continue moving without training is hard (due to AWS, TPWS, DSD.)
I would hazard a guess that it's easier to get a train moving than a plane. Of course once you've got a plane moving, you can do far more damage with it...
 

Meerkat

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The only difference is planes go at 500 miles per hour, and the fact that getting a train to move/continue moving without training is hard (due to AWS, TPWS, DSD.)
Nothing is that hard any more - I’m sure if you are motivated you can find what you need on the internet.
As a couple of incidents have proven the protection measures don’t always stop the obstruction of the main line.
A motivated individual would also research a place where they could do the most damage (It would still be easier to drive a stolen truck onto the line though). I would think the biggest danger would be a somewhat unstable but enthusiastic wannabe driver.
 

NSEWonderer

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These days the off the shelve sims are getting more detailed, isolation of safety systems are actually shown on a few consumer sims I believe. Nonetheless I think you'll always have some form of security issue as it will be balanced by the practicality side of increasing the measure up which always falls down to money at the end of the day.
 

1D54

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Five days on and am i right in assuming this guy still hasn't been apprehended?
 

greatkingrat

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The original appeal for information on the BTP website seems to have been removed, which suggests he has been identified, although there is no way to know for sure.
 

eldomtom2

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These days the off the shelve sims are getting more detailed, isolation of safety systems are actually shown on a few consumer sims I believe. Nonetheless I think you'll always have some form of security issue as it will be balanced by the practicality side of increasing the measure up which always falls down to money at the end of the day.
Obscurity is generally not an especially good security method.
 

12LDA28C

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They might well do, but are they authorised to give their companies property away?
I've very much doubt any company would authorise that particular item!

They don't, in my experience. Just because someone on this forum got given one by a driver does not mean it happens regularly.
 

Egg Centric

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Interestingly, the SBB have just banned Train Sim World from making any more add ons with realistic safety systems and so on so that people can't use it to teach themselves how to drive a Swiss train. You can find a thread with more information on the offical Train Sim World forums here. So clearly some foreign places are becoming more security conscious about this.
 

NSEWonderer

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Interestingly, the SBB have just banned Train Sim World from making any more add ons with realistic safety systems and so on so that people can't use it to teach themselves how to drive a Swiss train. You can find a thread with more information on the offical Train Sim World forums here. So clearly some foreign places are becoming more security conscious about this.
Not surprised just talked about off-the shelves sims and simulating such features in #158
 

Egg Centric

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Not surprised just talked about off-the shelves sims and simulating such features in #158

Ya.

I suppose one incredibly helpful thing is that today's main terrorists (in the UK) of either Islamic Extremists, Far Right, or the new one of Incel tend to be almost to a man (and they almost always are men!) total losers which means they suck at planning this stuff (or any atrocity) properly. Back in the days of the IRA they'd be easily have been able to figure out how to take over a train (but also wouldn't have done so).

I'm not overly concerned about enthusiasts stealing trains. I mean obv they need to be stoppped and prosecuted, but their motives are not so deadly.

Has anyone linked to Darius McCollum yet?
 

Lost property

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I would hazard a guess that it's easier to get a train moving than a plane. Of course once you've got a plane moving, you can do far more damage with it...
It's actually very easy to get an aircraft to move under its own power. Just release the brakes, apply a small amount of power for momentum and away you will go. Steering is easy as well...just move the rudder pedals as most light aircraft have direct nose wheel steering linked to the pedals.

Actually stealing a light aircraft is, comparatively, easy. All you need is the key and some very basic knowledge of the instruments and how to select the BATT on for power. Getting airborne is where the "fun" would begin...using the controls to counter torque from the prop, or a cross wind, or both, would be "difficult" for an untrained individual, but, not impossible.

I would speculate the individual shown approaching the train / gaining access is possibly a spotter with some time on a train sim, and mental health problems, who felt it was time to move on from the sim to the real thing.

Has a train ever actually been "stolen" in the past ?
 

Turtle

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Ya.

I suppose one incredibly helpful thing is that today's main terrorists (in the UK) of either Islamic Extremists, Far Right, or the new one of Incel tend to be almost to a man (and they almost always are men!) total losers which means they suck at planning this stuff (or any atrocity) properly. Back in the days of the IRA they'd be easily have been able to figure out how to take over a train (but also wouldn't have done so).

I'm not overly concerned about enthusiasts stealing trains. I mean obv they need to be stoppped and prosecuted, but their motives are not so deadly.

Has anyone linked to Darius McCollum yet?
Interesting link there. Maybe they should have offered him a job!
 

gabrielhj07

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Did something similar happen in New York where the guy 'hijacked' a train just to carry on the service?
 
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