Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[topgun390]

Chat Moss test 1Q01/02 MON 30/03-31/03
Timings 1 RUN ONLY 390 X 1F28 into LIME ST. THEN
1Q01
Lime St dep 23.53 .Edge Hill 23.57 Bootle Branch Jct 23.58 Olive Mount 23.59
Huyton Jct 00.02 Rainhill 00.05 St Helens Jct 00.08
Earlestown 00.12 Newton le Will 00.14. REVERSE.

1Q02
Newton le Will 00.29 Earlestown 00.31 St Helens Jct 00.34 Rainhill 00.36
Huyton 00.39 Olive Mount 00.41 Bootle Jct 00.43 Edge Hill 00.44.









St Helens Jct 00.34
Rainhill 00.36

 

[MikeDel]

Bootle jn or Bootle branch jn?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Chat Moss test 1Q01/02 MON 30/03-31/03

Realtimetrains shows 8 runs that night via Huyton (1Q01-08) involving 2 Pendolinos.
Some runs are to/from Newton-le-Willows and others to/from Warrington BQ.
The trains (1Q03/04) pass each other in Olive Mount cutting around 0130.

 

[Bevan Price]

Oooer.......
A) By dint of a recent notice (see Dave's NW2 Electrification Flickr site) Electrics can't use the station's crossover points because there is no provision for this included in the new OHLE at this point and
B) Whilst I totally agree the small loop is included in the track diagram for the station - in practice it is completely overgrown with trees/vegetation !! See any recent photos of St.Helens Central northern approach & SB

Does anyone know if there is a long term intent to wire the crossover at St.Helens ? It is a useful facility when there is engineering work, and at least until the last timetable, it was used by a morning ecs from Liverpool that reversed there and formed a passenger service back to Liverpool.

 

[LDECRexile]

I understand things should be happening this weekend at:

Phase 2:

Laser Scanning of metalwork at Cornbrook Viaduct.
Removal of redundant overhead equipment at Allerton Depot.
Trackwork between Wavertree and Earlestown, also at St Helens Central.
Platform resurfacing on some Chat Moss and Wigan branch stations
Work on switches at several points on Chat Moss.
Speed sign installations, raising parapets and platform edging at Manchester Victoria.

Phase 4

Farnworth Tunnel, installing the remaining halves of the new crossovers at Kearsley & Moses Gate.

This is as well as things such as installing bases on Phase 4.

I apologise in advance if I've misinterpreted anything I've been told in good faith.

Dave

 

[edwin_m]

Anyone know why the need to laser scan Cornbrook Viaduct? Surely they had to confirm its position when they first put the OLE under it, which if I recall was the very first piece in the North West and must be a couple of years ago now?

 

[snowball]

Anyone know why the need to laser scan Cornbrook Viaduct? Surely they had to confirm its position when they first put the OLE under it, which if I recall was the very first piece in the North West and must be a couple of years ago now?

It says scanning of metalwork so it's probably its condition rather than position that they're interested in.

I think it was raised a few inches when Metrolink phase 1 was built in 1991ish, to provide electrification clearance underneath, which was not used until the last few years.

 

[8A Rail]

Bootle jn or Bootle branch jn?

Bootle Branch Junction.

 

[Llama]

OHLE now extends beyond the east ends of (at least some of, possibly all) the through platforms at Manchester Victoria, to the gantries at Manchester Victoria East Junction. During the blockade next weekend 'electric trains stop here' signs will be fixed to the most easterly OHLE gantry on the platforms, there will be no provision for electric trains to shunt out of the east of the station until electrification marches eastwards up to Miles Platting and beyond.

Work on the signalling next weekend is also being done. The signals on the west end of the platforms at Manchester Vic will be replaced with LED signals, and the junction indicators ('feathers') will be replaced with alphanumeric route indicators. The four signals further west on the gantry protecting Deal Street Junction will also be replaced with LED signal heads and the alphanumeric route indicators will be repositioned (new indicators are in position but bagged over) and the actual route indications available will be changed. A few signals between Deal Street and Ordsall Lane junctions have been repositioned slightly, and the permissible speeds modified slightly (reduced from 25mph to 5mph(!) for facing road moves in the Up direction along the Down Chat Moss, and the 10mph on the Up Chat Moss has been tinkered with slightly.

At the moment standing at the west end of Manchester Vic looking west, from left to right the line names are Down Salford Slow, Up Salford Slow, Down Salford Fast, Up Salford Fast. These lines will be known as 'B', 'C', 'D' and 'E' lines. These line names will continue west of Deal Street Junction, towards Ordsall Lane Jn and Salford West Jn (west of Salford Central). At the moment those lines (again from L-R) are called the Down Chat Moss, Up Chat Moss, Down Salford, Up Salford. There will be no 'A' line yet, until the Ordsall Chord work is commissioned and 'B' and 'C' lines are slewed through the currently unused platforms at Salford Central.

Also next weekend Manchester North signalbox will close after 16 1/2 years of operation, with control of signalling moved to the Manchester ROC in Ashburys. Signal IDs etc will remain as they are.

 

[Starmill]

Standing at Victoria, it looks like a tramway only having one wire up!

 

[Llama]

Look a bit closer, the catenary and contact wires are paired through the platforms.

'Tramway' OHLE is actually the term used where there is no catenary wire, where the only wire is the contact wire which is unsupported between registration points - Liverpool Lime St has this, as do some of the bay platforms at Leeds, and probably plenty of other places where permissible speeds are sufficiently low.

 

[Starmill]

I see it now! Although it is still a little unfinished. Do both wires contact a pantograph? Doesn't sound like it?

 

[snowball]

If it's like other places where the two wires are together (under some bridges) the catenary is immediately above the contact wire, so no.

 

[LDECRexile]

OHLE now extends beyond the east ends of (at least some of, possibly all) the through platforms at Manchester Victoria, to the gantries at Manchester Victoria East Junction. During the blockade next weekend 'electric trains stop here' signs will be fixed to the most easterly OHLE gantry on the platforms, there will be no provision for electric trains to shunt out of the east of the station until electrification marches eastwards up to Miles Platting and beyond.

Work on the signalling next weekend is also being done. The signals on the west end of the platforms at Manchester Vic will be replaced with LED signals, and the junction indicators ('feathers') will be replaced with alphanumeric route indicators. The four signals further west on the gantry protecting Deal Street Junction will also be replaced with LED signal heads and the alphanumeric route indicators will be repositioned (new indicators are in position but bagged over) and the actual route indications available will be changed. A few signals between Deal Street and Ordsall Lane junctions have been repositioned slightly, and the permissible speeds modified slightly (reduced from 25mph to 5mph(!) for facing road moves in the Up direction along the Down Chat Moss, and the 10mph on the Up Chat Moss has been tinkered with slightly.

At the moment standing at the west end of Manchester Vic looking west, from left to right the line names are Down Salford Slow, Up Salford Slow, Down Salford Fast, Up Salford Fast. These lines will be known as 'B', 'C', 'D' and 'E' lines. These line names will continue west of Deal Street Junction, towards Ordsall Lane Jn and Salford West Jn (west of Salford Central). At the moment those lines (again from L-R) are called the Down Chat Moss, Up Chat Moss, Down Salford, Up Salford. There will be no 'A' line yet, until the Ordsall Chord work is commissioned and 'B' and 'C' lines are slewed through the currently unused platforms at Salford Central.

Also next weekend Manchester North signalbox will close after 16 1/2 years of operation, with control of signalling moved to the Manchester ROC in Ashburys. Signal IDs etc will remain as they are.

Very interesting and informative, thank you.

I have inserted two photos into the Combined Volume which I took last Tuesday, 24th March at Lime St, as Photos 3608c and 3608b.

When you read their captions (which are identical) you will see why I delayed publication and understand my puzzlement.

Does anyone in the know know what's what?

 

[QueensCurve]

Does anyone know if there is a long term intent to wire the crossover at St.Helens ? It is a useful facility when there is engineering work, and at least until the last timetable, it was used by a morning ecs from Liverpool that reversed there and formed a passenger service back to Liverpool.

Is it not usually the practice to wire all crossovers on electrified routes?

 

[snowball]

I have inserted two photos into the Combined Volume which I took last Tuesday, 24th March at Lime St, as Photos 3608c and 3608b.

When you read their captions (which are identical) you will see why I delayed publication and understand my puzzlement.

Does anyone in the know know what's what?

It was announced at least several days ago that a Class 319 had been named Northern Powerhouse. I thought it was the same day that this was published, which would make it 20 March - and this confirms it. So why would the name be covered up, with covering partly torn off again, four days later?

 

[LDECRexile]

It was announced at least several days ago that a Class 319 had been named Northern Powerhouse. I thought it was the same day that this was published, which would make it 20 March - and this confirms it. So why would the name be covered up, with covering partly torn off again, four days later?

Precisely

Dave

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If it's like other places where the two wires are together (under some bridges) the catenary is immediately above the contact wire, so no.

The wires through Victoria look to be horizontally paired at the moment (ie not one above the other).
But the installation is not yet finally configured, as some of it at the east end is secured by temporary pulleys.
Hopefully all sorted out over Easter weekend.

One other point about Phase 2 wiring, there is still a north-facing auto-tensioner at St Helens Central (north of the signal box, east side) without wires.
This suggests there is some unfinished business around there, but evidently not critical to running trains.

 

[geoffk]

"There will be no 'A' line yet, until the Ordsall Chord work is commissioned and 'B' and 'C' lines are slewed through the currently unused platforms at Salford Central".

So what is the future layout at Salford Central? I was told that there would be two platforms on the Liverpool line but it doesn't look possible to divert this through the two redundant platforms.

 

[snowball]

"There will be no 'A' line yet, until the Ordsall Chord work is commissioned and 'B' and 'C' lines are slewed through the currently unused platforms at Salford Central".

So what is the future layout at Salford Central? I was told that there would be two platforms on the Liverpool line but it doesn't look possible to divert this through the two redundant platforms.

At some point west of Vic the four lines will fan out to the five lines A-E described by Llama. These 5 lines will have 5 platforms at Salford Central. Lines D and E will head towards Crescent as now. Lines A-C will head to the viaduct alongside Trinity Way and will fan out to four lines, two going to Ordsall Lane Junction and Chat Moss, and two going to the Ordsall Chord.

 

[edwin_m]

One other point about Phase 2 wiring, there is still a north-facing auto-tensioner at St Helens Central (north of the signal box, east side) without wires.
This suggests there is some unfinished business around there, but evidently not critical to running trains.

I don't know the area - but is this in the right place to run a wire over the unelectrified crossover referred to a few posts back? I wonder if this is another incomplete bit that will be sorted out when they get a chance.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't know the area - but is this in the right place to run a wire over the unelectrified crossover referred to a few posts back? I wonder if this is another incomplete bit that will be sorted out when they get a chance.

I thought it might be intended to cover the adjacent siding if it was going to become an Up loop.
It's too far north for the existing crossover - and on the wrong side.
There is still a battery of cherry pickers at the St Helens access point, not sure what they are doing.

 

[swt_passenger]

At some point west of Vic the four lines will fan out to the five lines A-E described by Llama. These 5 lines will have 5 platforms at Salford Central. Lines D and E will head towards Crescent as now. Lines A-C will head to the viaduct alongside Trinity Way and will fan out to four lines, two going to Ordsall Lane Junction and Chat Moss, and two going to the Ordsall Chord.

There was a thread last year about the platform and track layout at Salford Central, went into a lot of detail about platform use, with links to various planning drawings:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101007&page=2

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The first live Pendolino run via Huyton is currently en route: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U10732/2015/03/30/advanced

If RTT is to be believed, there are 3 workings tonight.
Edge Hill-Newton-le-Willows and return (1Q01/02)
Edge Hill-Warrington BQ and return (1Q03/04)
Edge Hill-Warrington BQ (1Q05), returning via the old route Crewe/Runcorn

There don't appear to be any passing moves involving 2 Pendos.
1Q01 now reached Newton-le-Willows.
There are some more runs tomorrow night.

Also RTT shows the evening Preston-Longsight ECS to operate via the Newton-le-Willows loop between Golborne Jn and Winwick Jn to Crewe (reverse).
But it runs behind a class 57...

 

[snowball]

So what is the future layout at Salford Central? I was told that there would be two platforms on the Liverpool line but it doesn't look possible to divert this through the two redundant platforms.

Having looked again at the detailed Chord plans I see your point. The answer is that the Middlewood viaduct, at its NE end, will be widened on its NW side as part of the Chord works. In other words if you're on a train from Eccles to Victoria, then when you're on the viaduct alongside Trinity Way, getting near Salford Central, the viaduct will be widened on its left side, to enable two tracks to be moved nearer the line from Bolton, and so enter Salford Central midway between the present Bolton tracks and the present Chat Moss tracks.

The last of the three tracks between Middlewood Viaduct and Salford Central will be where the present Liverpool-bound track is.

 

[Billyblue]

It was announced at least several days ago that a Class 319 had been named Northern Powerhouse. I thought it was the same day that this was published, which would make it 20 March - and this confirms it. So why would the name be covered up, with covering partly torn off again, four days later?

Being a cynic I should imagine it's for a political reason and it's being saved to trumpet the government's 'Northern Powerhouse' programme.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The first live Pendolino run via Huyton is currently en route: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U10732/2015/03/30/advanced

If RTT is to be believed, there are 3 workings tonight.
Edge Hill-Newton-le-Willows and return (1Q01/02)
Edge Hill-Warrington BQ and return (1Q03/04)
Edge Hill-Warrington BQ (1Q05), returning via the old route Crewe/Runcorn

There don't appear to be any passing moves involving 2 Pendos.
1Q01 now reached Newton-le-Willows.
There are some more runs tomorrow night.

Also RTT shows the evening Preston-Longsight ECS to operate via the Newton-le-Willows loop between Golborne Jn and Winwick Jn to Crewe (reverse).
But it runs behind a class 57...

The Pendolino flew through Huyton (eastwards) at 00.13. Unfortunately, because of the weather and a camera malfunction I was unable to film it. (or get a photo)

 

[PDG1949]

The first live Pendolino run via Huyton is currently en route: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U10732/2015/03/30/advanced

If RTT is to be believed, there are 3 workings tonight.
Edge Hill-Newton-le-Willows and return (1Q01/02)
Edge Hill-Warrington BQ and return (1Q03/04)
Edge Hill-Warrington BQ (1Q05), returning via the old route Crewe/Runcorn

There don't appear to be any passing moves involving 2 Pendos.
1Q01 now reached Newton-le-Willows.
There are some more runs tomorrow night.

Also RTT shows the evening Preston-Longsight ECS to operate via the Newton-le-Willows loop between Golborne Jn and Winwick Jn to Crewe (reverse).
But it runs behind a class 57...

Dave (LDECRexile) and myself were at Earlestown and 'caught' the first Pendo coming through around 0020. A couple of mins later a freight haul came through P3 Liverpool bound. Just before 0100 a headlight could be seen approaching from Newton and we thought here's the return trip. However it turned off towards P5 and sounded as if it was stopping. A couple of orangemen appeared where I was on P2 and I asked had they seen a Pendo on their travels. It appears they had just got off it, as apparently a call had been received at N-le-W that there had been some sort of isolation problem at Huyton and the Pendo was returning the long way round via Warrington BQ and there was no more activity for the night because of this, if I've got everything right.

 

[LDECRexile]

Dave (LDECRexile) and myself were at Earlestown and 'caught' the first Pendo coming through around 0020. A couple of mins later a freight haul came through P3 Liverpool bound. Just before 0100 a headlight could be seen approaching from Newton and we thought here's the return trip. However it turned off towards P5 and sounded as if it was stopping. A couple of orangemen appeared where I was on P2 and I asked had they seen a Pendo on their travels. It appears they had just got off it, as apparently a call had been received at N-le-W that there had been some sort of isolation problem at Huyton and the Pendo was returning the long way round via Warrington BQ and there was no more activity for the night because of this, if I've got everything right.

Spot on Paul.

One film each turned out pretty well, given the squally conditions.

Will post them tomorrow.

'Night all.

 

[Ian1000]

0616 from LIV to MIA cancelled this morning due to overhead wire problems according to the auto announcer.

 

[adsteamfan]

If a little common sense had been used then this test would have been scheduled for a Friday night so that any problems wouldn't have had an impact on the electrics the next day as they currently don't run at weekends.