Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[PDG1949]

Come clean and give another date? Last thing you want when you're running so late is give yourself another deadline. Currently plan is working in time for May, bit hopes of much sooner than that.

Which year?

 

[Class377/5]

which year?

2015.

 

[CdBrux]

Under promise and over deliver is my motto. I always remember under BR the ECML being well ahead of schedule and also Class 91 delivery. Even the MK4s were not too bad in the end.

Problem in doing that of course is that, in this case, the project could have been finished, but the rolling stock to use it would have been planned for your given finish date and so have been late leading to lots of moaning of a finished project with nothing to run on it!

 

[PDG1949]

Hi,

Does anyone know exactly whereabouts at Huyton the HG mast code starts, please?

I've been asked by Phil, the compiler at the 'Railway Codes' site (see earlier posting) when I told him about our HG mast code. I told him I guessed it was where SBH1 started - but as I say that was a guess. Does anyone know anything more accurate?

 

[LDECRexile]

We went from Liverpool South Parkway to Malton on Weds, back today.

Five photos added here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

On our way back the train was diverted and ran (raced) non-stop from Manchester Oxford Road to Lime St via Chat Moss to regain some lost time. (I've therefore been on a modern-day "Scarborough Flyer"!)

Scaffolding is nearing the parapet of the Sankey Viaduct on a column further East than Column 7.

A portal has been erected between Roby Jct and Roby Station. North of the tracks in the same area the bases LNW_GW Joint mentioned on Monday are taking shape. They appear to be similar to the "slab" bases widely used in the Salford Central area.

A "baseless mast" like the ones used in the Thatto Heath Canyon has been attached to the northern trackside West of the Stephenson Way bridge between Edge Hill and Wavertree Tech Park.

 

[DJH1971]

Nice to hear!

 

[Class377/5]

Should be news of new expected finish date in next week or so.

 

[DJH1971]

Should be news of new expected finish date in next week or so.

Needs to be something soon, the suspense is killing me.

Even more so, as I will be using the line far more often shortly.

 

[adsteamfan]

Looks like some more progress on the Huyton - Wigan section as I could see that studs for the gantries have been fixed into the M6 bridge near Bryn as I drove under it today.

 

[DJH1971]

Looks like some more progress on the Huyton - Wigan section as I could see that studs for the gantries have been fixed into the M6 bridge near Bryn as I drove under it today.

Encouraging

 

[LDECRexile]

Looks like some more progress on the Huyton - Wigan section as I could see that studs for the gantries have been fixed into the M6 bridge near Bryn as I drove under it today.

Fab

Updated spreadsheet below

 

[deltic08]

I am almost certain now that an election is imminent as Cameron has announced a new line between Manchester and Leeds called HS3 on a visit to Leeds today. Oh p-l-e-a-s-e not again.

He announced that HS3 will cost £4billion and reduce Liverpool-Manchester and Manchester-Leeds journey times to 32 and 26 minutes respectively but no mention of when. I understood electrification completed by Xmas will produce 32 minutes journey time between Liverpool and Manchester non-stop and completion of trans Pennine electrification in 2018 will give 35 minutes journey times onwards to Leeds with one intermediate stop.

How gullible does this Government think we are in the North being offered the same improvement three times in under a year. They must be desperate. What we need is more trains and less Pacers NOW and not HS3 manjana.

 

[swt_passenger]

I am almost certain now that an election is imminent...

Now that elections are on a fixed 5 year timetable you didn't actually need an HS3 announcement...

Wasn't the HS2 announcement done for exactly the same reason though? To give the Conservatives a last minute fast ball?

 

[LDECRexile]

I was able to squeeze in a mini-tour encompassing Roby, Huyton and Wavertree today (plus an abortive trip to see a 319 passing Speke). 18 new photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/15649457131/in/set-72157648494725811/

1. More metalwork on show at Roby
2. Confirm there is evidence of co-operation by the bus people at Huyton, but there are no bases or masts on their land
3. All masts appear to be in place in the overlap between old and new electrics next to Tuebrook Sidings.

 

[deltic08]

I was able to squeeze in a mini-tour encompassing Roby, Huyton and Wavertree today (plus an abortive trip to see a 319 passing Speke). 18 new photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/15649457131/in/set-72157648494725811/

1. More metalwork on show at Roby
2. Confirm there is evidence of co-operation by the bus people at Huyton, but there are no bases or masts on their land
3. All masts appear to be in place in the overlap between old and new electrics next to Tuebrook Sidings.

Anytime you want to post more photos is fine with me.

There appears to be steady progress now particularly on viaducts and motorway bridges. I realise work will not be complete by the target date but how far behind do you think it is before electric trains will run through Rainhill and Huyton?

 

[DJH1971]

Anytime you want to post more photos is fine with me.

There appears to be steady progress now particularly on viaducts and motorway bridges. I realise work will not be complete by the target date but how far behind do you think it is before electric trains will run through Rainhill and Huyton?

I have a feeling around February/March 2015.

 

[Class377/5]

I have a feeling around February/March 2015.

That the rough date I've heard recently. Well for wires being finished at least.

 

[DJH1971]

That the rough date I've heard recently. Well for wires being finished at least.

That's what's my money is on.

At least work on the Sankey & Carr Mill viaducts now in place is a good sign.

 

[LDECRexile]

There appears to be steady progress now particularly on viaducts and motorway bridges. I realise work will not be complete by the target date but how far behind do you think it is before electric trains will run through Rainhill and Huyton?

First off, I am a lay observer. I know nowt and pretend nowt.

I talk to people in orange, which has been a consistent pleasure and source of all sorts of nuggets (but never any hint of stirring, moaning, blaming or disloyalty, not once) but standing back I am struck by the remarkable degree of silo practice. The classic example was when I visited Sankey Viaduct in the late Summer to find a very affable gang taking soil samples along the footpath underneath. They were skilled and professional but had no idea at all (and no interest in) what they were taking samples for. They were taking samples where they had been told to take samples. Their bounden duty was to take accurate samples on time, to spec and return them to base for analysis. They had noticed the thundering great bridge nearby, but hadn't paid it any heed.

My point is that asking most Orangemen about what they are doing elicits pride, pleasure at being asked and ample evidence of skill and professionalism, but usually says nowt at all about the Orangeman working 50 yards away, let alone 5 miles away.

I therefore have an ignorant view of the surface and a partial understanding of a partial view of the gubbins.

I reckon 95% could be ready for the original target date, but 95%=0%. it only takes one yard of wire to be incomplete, one switch not switched on etc to stop the show.

The single worst obstacle I know of which would render the above equation as 99.99%=0% is the westernmost pair of masts on Sankey Viaduct. The other three are in business, but there has been difficulty with access to the other one. I hope to visit and see for myself tomorrow.

Today's photos suggest engineering solutions have been found for bases in difficult ground between Roby Jct and Roby Station. The picture is less clear near Archway Road, Huyton.

Men have been working for ages on two large, man-made holes one on each side of the tracks between Edge Hill and Wavertree TP. I don't know what they are or whether they are an issue or not.

I was astonished when I saw that Planning Permission had only been applied for for work at Rainhill in Summer 2014, but hey, it was granted without the Awkward Squad kicking off and work has cracked on.

A while ago we heard horror stories about the Salford Central area "having to be done again." Since then more wires have gone up, so I'm struggling to weigh Shock Horror with Eyeballs. Someone else posted that Man Vic would be prioritised because it will be needed for extra services during the Farnworth Blockade. I suspect that it will be prioritised ahead of the Wigan Branch, unless "Sankey West" stops the whole Chat Moss job, in which case Wigan would be better than nowt.

I offer Evens that we'll see a 319 go under its own power from Lime St to Manchester Airport in January 2015.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Men have been working for ages on two large, man-made holes one on each side of the tracks between Edge Hill and Wavertree TP. I don't know what they are or whether they are an issue or not.

You made some very perceptive remarks there.

My guess is the big holes at Wavertree are to do with the switchgear going in on the north side.
We don't often talk about the power supply side of the work but it is clearly critical, complex and e.x.p.e.n.s.i.v.e.
This one is maybe also replacing the older (c1960) WCML power setup in the area as well as powering the new lines.

I was in foreign parts viewing the GW scheme yesterday.
If you think the NW project is in trouble...

 

[LDECRexile]

I had an amazing day today, 31 photos added here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

1. Scaffolding is up on Columns 1 and 4 at Carr Mill Viaduct, it is reckoned to be ready for electrification teams to come and do their thing. In these cases "their thing" is to pump concrete into formers to create large bases on top of the "spare" columns where tracks 3 and 4 used to run. TTC masts will then be attached which will lean across both tracks like gallows.

2. There has been a single wire crossing Penkford Lane bridge, Collins Green, for quite some time. Now there are four wires, two on either side of the tracks.

3. Scaffolding on Sankey Viaduct is visible from the Sankey Street bridge in Earlestown.

4. There appear to be more wires under Broad Lane bridge, Collins Green, but not quite a full set.

5. There appear to be more wires North from Thatto Heath to Ravenhead Works, but not quite a full set.

6. Significant progress at Sankey Viaduct:

6.1 Columns 4 and 7 have scaffolding completed and ready to support work on both North and South sides
6.2 Column 1 had its South side scaffolding nearly complete when I left the site at 14:30. The North side groundwork was also nearly complete, both were expected to be finished today, with the North side scaffolding to be erected tomorrow.
6.3 As suspected, I was wrong last week when I reported that columns 2, 4, 7 and 10 will carry masts. Columns 1, 4, 7 and 10 will carry masts. Columns 1 and 10 are the end columns, both have an open arch to one side and solid embankment on the other.
6.4 Progress may shortly be made on access to Column 10 (the westernmost end.)

Best of all:

6.5 A length of parapet has been removed on the South side of the top of Column 7. Apparently this work started on Monday night, but ground to a halt when stonemasons encountered stonework joints which they had simply never met before. As the viaduct was a world first, perhaps that's not surprising. By Tuesday night (this work will all be done on night shifts when there are no trains) they had the right tools and techniques to crack on, which they did.

Once again, I encountered an Orange Team to put an smile on anyone's face - pleasant, humorous and professional, as the photos clearly show.

PS: if you are thinking of going to Sankey Viaduct for a shufty, then take your wellies!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You made some very perceptive remarks there.

My guess is the big holes at Wavertree are to do with the switchgear going in on the north side.
We don't often talk about the power supply side of the work but it is clearly critical, complex and e.x.p.e.n.s.i.v.e.
This one is maybe also replacing the older (c1960) WCML power setup in the area as well as powering the new lines.

I was in foreign parts viewing the GW scheme yesterday.
If you think the NW project is in trouble...

Have you reported your GW Electrification observations elsewhere? If you have, please say where, as I enjoy and value your contributions immensely.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I had an amazing day today, 31 photos added here:

Another great set of pictures.
Better not ask how some of them were taken...
I wonder if the Sankey Viaduct graffiti is being dealt with while the parapet is removed?
It's now looking like mostly portals Roby Jn-Huyton Jn.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Have you reported your GW Electrification observations elsewhere? If you have, please say where, as I enjoy and value your contributions immensely.

Post #613 in GW Electrification.
I'm rather surprised we don't get more frequent updates from the GW locals, especially considering how many people travel the route every day.
It is hard counting at 125mph though!
Like on the NW scene, the stoppers are the best for checking progress.

 

[LDECRexile]

Another great set of pictures.
Better not ask how some of them were taken...
I wonder if the Sankey Viaduct graffiti is being dealt with while the parapet is removed?
It's now looking like mostly portals Roby Jn-Huyton Jn.

The Orangemen said that removing graffiti has been approved.

All photos were taken kosher and above board. I took all the ones from the ground, all from safe places with staff agreement. Scaffolder Richard took all the ones from the parapet. He was up there on legitimate business (erecting the scaffolding!) and wore all appropriate protective kit, including harness, which you can actually see on one shot. We passed him my camera using the same rope and pulley used for lifting planks, scaffolding tubes, tools, screws and everything else. I went to some trouble to ensure the team were happy to do this and for it to go public.

I'm answering your pleasant grin fully with a straight face because it would be grievous if some malcontent somewhere made life hard for these chaps and queered the pitch for similar elsewhere.

As for Roby Jct-Huyton Jct portals, I agree.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Bald Rick]

I offer Evens that we'll see a 319 go under its own power from Lime St to Manchester Airport in January 2015.

Odds for December 14? I might be tempted...

 

[deltic08]

First off, I am a lay observer. I know nowt and pretend nowt.

I talk to people in orange, which has been a consistent pleasure and source of all sorts of nuggets (but never any hint of stirring, moaning, blaming or disloyalty, not once) but standing back I am struck by the remarkable degree of silo practice. The classic example was when I visited Sankey Viaduct in the late Summer to find a very affable gang taking soil samples along the footpath underneath. They were skilled and professional but had no idea at all (and no interest in) what they were taking samples for. They were taking samples where they had been told to take samples. Their bounden duty was to take accurate samples on time, to spec and return them to base for analysis. They had noticed the thundering great bridge nearby, but hadn't paid it any heed.

My point is that asking most Orangemen about what they are doing elicits pride, pleasure at being asked and ample evidence of skill and professionalism, but usually says nowt at all about the Orangeman working 50 yards away, let alone 5 miles away.

I therefore have an ignorant view of the surface and a partial understanding of a partial view of the gubbins.

I reckon 95% could be ready for the original target date, but 95%=0%. it only takes one yard of wire to be incomplete, one switch not switched on etc to stop the show.

The single worst obstacle I know of which would render the above equation as 99.99%=0% is the westernmost pair of masts on Sankey Viaduct. The other three are in business, but there has been difficulty with access to the other one. I hope to visit and see for myself tomorrow.

Today's photos suggest engineering solutions have been found for bases in difficult ground between Roby Jct and Roby Station. The picture is less clear near Archway Road, Huyton.

Men have been working for ages on two large, man-made holes one on each side of the tracks between Edge Hill and Wavertree TP. I don't know what they are or whether they are an issue or not.

I was astonished when I saw that Planning Permission had only been applied for for work at Rainhill in Summer 2014, but hey, it was granted without the Awkward Squad kicking off and work has cracked on.

A while ago we heard horror stories about the Salford Central area "having to be done again." Since then more wires have gone up, so I'm struggling to weigh Shock Horror with Eyeballs. Someone else posted that Man Vic would be prioritised because it will be needed for extra services during the Farnworth Blockade. I suspect that it will be prioritised ahead of the Wigan Branch, unless "Sankey West" stops the whole Chat Moss job, in which case Wigan would be better than nowt.

I offer Evens that we'll see a 319 go under its own power from Lime St to Manchester Airport in January 2015.

I asked you because of your enthusiastic and diligent recording of progress to date. If anybody had an idea of completion date I thought you would have, lay observer or not.

Thank you for your opinion and explanation. It is much appreciated.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

All photos were taken kosher and above board. I took all the ones from the ground, all from safe places with staff agreement. Scaffolder Richard took all the ones from the parapet. He was up there on legitimate business (erecting the scaffolding!) and wore all appropriate protective kit, including harness, which you can actually see on one shot. We passed him my camera using the same rope and pulley used for lifting planks, scaffolding tubes, tools, screws and everything else. I went to some trouble to ensure the team were happy to do this and for it to go public.

I'm answering your pleasant grin fully with a straight face because it would be grievous if some malcontent somewhere made life hard for these chaps and queered the pitch for similar elsewhere.

Indeed so. Well done.

 

[deltic08]

Another great set of pictures.
Better not ask how some of them were taken...
I wonder if the Sankey Viaduct graffiti is being dealt with while the parapet is removed?
It's now looking like mostly portals Roby Jn-Huyton Jn.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Post #613 in GW Electrification.
I'm rather surprised we don't get more frequent updates from the GW locals, especially considering how many people travel the route every day.

All I can say is thank goodness for the North making this Forum interesting. I think we are grateful for any improvement and excitedly discuss here even if we don't agree with each other all the time. The Southeast and London know that whatever they want they get so do not exhibit the same excitement.

The Treasury has already pledged half of the £20billion needed for Crossrail2 before Thameslink and Crossrail1 have even been completed. Perhaps that is why HS3 was launched on Monday for the third time to coincide with the Crossrail2 announcement trying to balance the North/South divide which it wont as 30 minutes from Manchester to Liverpool has already been delivered, a few months back after only a few hundred £millions, twenty years before HS3.

 

[AM9]

All I can say is thank goodness for the North making this Forum interesting. I think we are grateful for any improvement and excitedly discuss here even if we don't agree with each other all the time. The Southeast and London know that whatever they want they get so do not exhibit the same excitement.

The Treasury has already pledged half of the £20billion needed for Crossrail2 before Thameslink and Crossrail1 have even been completed. Perhaps that is why HS3 was launched on Monday for the third time to coincide with the Crossrail2 announcement trying to balance the North/South divide which it wont as 30 minutes from Manchester to Liverpool has already been delivered, a few months back after only a few hundred £millions, twenty years before HS3.

Ah, somebody has mistaken this thread for the 'The North is getting a raw deal' one. It hasn't been locked yet so rather than pollute this thread which has given interesting factual information, better pop over to:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101608

 

[snowball]

As we all know the three-monthly update of the CP5 Enhancements Delivery Plan, due 30 Sep, has not yet appeared.

However I've found a document on the ORR site named "Enhancements delivery plan change control September 2014":

http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/15072/cp5-enhancements-delivery-plan-sept-2014.pdf

The only part I've looked at so far is the beginning where the ORR rejects NR's request to extend the target date for phase 2c (i.e. wires to Victoria) to April 2015.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

PS: if you are thinking of going to Sankey Viaduct for a shufty, then take your wellies!

Yes - definitely a Northern England forum