• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

Status
Not open for further replies.

caliburn53

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2014
Messages
12
Made the journey to Liverpool today for the first time in a few months and didn't see much advancement in the electrification process plus we we twice held once on the goods line at Ealestown and at Lime st to allow the tpe trains to pass, seems to me there will in the future a reduction in our stopping service by northern to allow the Manchester to Liverpool Express of tpe more diagrams along with their electric services to Scotland from Manchester Airport
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

8A Rail

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2012
Messages
1,346
Location
Liverpool
Made the journey to Liverpool today for the first time in a few months and didn't see much advancement in the electrification process plus we we twice held once on the goods line at Ealestown and at Lime st to allow the tpe trains to pass, seems to me there will in the future a reduction in our stopping service by northern to allow the Manchester to Liverpool Express of tpe more diagrams along with their electric services to Scotland from Manchester Airport
The frequency of the stopping services will remain as they are - certainly no reduction. With the electriciation, especially at Earlestown (new faster turnouts) and at Huyton, we have now the opportunity for trains to pass slower trains were previously has not been possible.
 

martynbristow

Member
Joined
15 Jun 2005
Messages
426
Location
Birkenhead
The frequency of the stopping services will remain as they are - certainly no reduction. With the electriciation, especially at Earlestown (new faster turnouts) and at Huyton, we have now the opportunity for trains to pass slower trains were previously has not been possible.

When Huyton gets finished off and the 319s start there will be some big changes. Potentially better interaction between slows and stoppers.
I've not had any overtakes yet so I don't really see its been used when I've been out.
But it may not have been suitable for the timetable change
 

8A Rail

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2012
Messages
1,346
Location
Liverpool
When Huyton gets finished off and the 319s start there will be some big changes. Potentially better interaction between slows and stoppers.
I've not had any overtakes yet so I don't really see its been used when I've been out.
But it may not have been suitable for the timetable change

Certainly at Huyton the "overtakes" have been happening and have been since it was completed. I've seen ex WBQ's (& a freight train) be put onto the slow down line to allow TPE's to pass - there has also been other overtakes but not so obvious unless you look at Northern Timetable. Tend to happens if some trains are operating late.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
16,260
Nothing was planned in the Hub timetables to overtake at Earlestown, its all Huyton/Roby.
 

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
Yet in the '319 cascade to Northern' thread (Traction & Rolling Stock sub-forum), it had been stated thay the 319's would need to be re-engineered from 4 car to 3 car.

Its poor research by the newspaper

Two EMUs trains were drafted into Allerton Motive Power Depot last month for driver training on non-public runs to Crewe in readiness for the start of Northern Rail’s December timetable change.

The 27-year-old three coach class 319 electric units, originally part of London’s former First Capital Connect fleet, will probably be used on Liverpool - Manchester Airport services, with the rest of the timetable operated by the equally old existing fleet of two coach diesel multiple units

Probably used? Er its officially announced.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
25,203
Location
Nottingham
Yet in the '319 cascade to Northern' thread (Traction & Rolling Stock sub-forum), it had been stated thay the 319's would need to be re-engineered from 4 car to 3 car.

The journalist probably read that thread and came away totally baffled.
 

LDECRexile

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2014
Messages
2,149
Location
Southport, UK
I went out and about today, taking a very circuitous route to the grandchildren.

As has been the case again and again throughout the year I was pleasantly surprised by how much 'advancement in the electrification process' was readily apparent in just the few days since I last took a look-see. This BLOG and associated images and links and sites such as nw-sparks show clear evidence of widespread, sustained and readily apparent progress and achievement.

Specifically, today:

1. Carr Mill Viaduct: scaffolding completed last week, no action since. Apparently the work has "gone back to the designers."

2. Sankey Viaduct: Stonework at the tops of both North and South sides of Columns 4 and 7 has been removed. Stonework at the top of Column 1 is next in line. The best news is that groundwork in preparation for erecting scaffolding on Column 10 (western end of the viaduct) appears to have started. I could see Orangemen doing such work but they are on private land on the other side of the Sankey Brook with the view obscured by foliage and a berm. Balfour Beattie Orangemen elsewhere, later in the morning, said they thought the green light had been given to get cracking on this. Hopefully someone else will report metalwork climbing during the week.

3. Rainhill Station: five of the eight masts in the station area (seven on the platforms and one just off the western end of the westbound platform) now have characteristic tall, bare, thick masts standing proud. These are typical of areas where wires are to be strung longitudinally and laterally. (I've forgotten the term for them, will someone please help?) A sixth base is curing. It was impossible to tell if the excavations for the other two contain curing bases as their temporary covers were too good as covers.

4. Huyton Quarry: scaffolding has gone up around the gubbins at either end of the electrical unit which looks like a green corrugated container. The lone bare base opposite remains stubbornly mastless.

5. Huyton Junction: More metalwork has sprouted. There seems to be almost a full house of verticals on the north side. After the 'Vee' between tracks 2 and 3 East of Huyton Station has closed the general pattern appears to be TTCs leaning over Tracks 1 and 2 from the South side and single masts from the North side serving Track 3. This should mean that when Track 4 is electrified OHLE over Tracks 1 and 2 need not be disturbed.

6. HG nn nn mast numbering on the Wigan Branch: by last week a portal had been erected over the Wigan Branch near the Vee of Huyton Junction itself. This was my 'candidate' for HG 00 01. Now a pair of masts has been squeezed in between that portal and the Vee. This could well be HG 00 01, but I couldn't see any marker, even with binocs.

7. Roby-Huyton Overtaking: The significant re-quadrupling scheme was conceived and justified to enable service enhancements such as adding the Newcastle flyers. We have seen ample evidence over the months of this taking place westbound. Today I was standing on my trusty step-stool on the footpath next to Track 1 when two trains hove into view from the East - a flyer from Newcastle and a stopper from Wigan. They arrived at the junction as if synchronised, with the stopper at line speed of 45 mph and the flyer at 90. I make no apology for saying I had a real tingle of excitement as the flyer roared past a few feet from me. Pre-works, one of these trains would have had to stand before the junction. Signalling changes already made and to follow next Spring North of St Helens Central will further reduce the risk of extra future trains such as Liverpool-Scotland causing chaos.

8. Roby Junction-Roby Bases: a couple of weeks ago LNW-GW Joint reported some non-standard 'Slab' bases in the unstable ground in this area. Others have given more detail of the three since, with long-range images. One of them was reported as still there yesterday. The two to the North of the tracks have had all shuttering removed and are completing the curing process. They appear to have sets of six bolts rather than the more usual four. From the Public Open Space to the North of the tracks they can be seen as substantial structures.

I will add more photos, including some from night work in progress on Sankey Viaduct, later tonight or tomorrow.
 
Last edited:

LDECRexile

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2014
Messages
2,149
Location
Southport, UK
Headspans I think you mean...
As used on the 1970s OHLE between Newton le Willows and Earlestown.

That's it, thanks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have added 26 photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811/

Please note that most are at the end, but I have also inserted three which I have received from a Sankey Viaduct scaffolder at photo number 0965 (my numbering). I have received three more but am struggling to get them off my phone, so I will have to add them later.
 

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
It would hardly exist.

As we still don't know for certain when the wires will be usable to Victoria/Airport how many units do we think may be available for use when they are.

Currently looking like three months delay in initial completing. Northern was suppose to have six units by then.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,993
Headspans I think you mean...
As used on the 1970s OHLE between Newton le Willows and Earlestown.

I hope its done properly and not like the ECML stuff. I would have thought the headspan being a metal rather than wire structure would have been more reliable but still.
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,888
Location
Leeds
I would have thought the headspan being a metal rather than wire structure would have been more reliable but still.

????

If it has transverse rigid metal connecting two uprights, it's a portal or gantry. If it has transverse wires instead, it's a headspan.
 

LDECRexile

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2014
Messages
2,149
Location
Southport, UK
Last edited:

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
17,120
I have seen some examples, from Japan I believe, of headspan-gantry hybrid structures, where there was a solid gantry arm but it appeared rather lightweight and was supported with cables in the manner of a headspan.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,947
Location
Mold, Clwyd
I have seen some examples, from Japan I believe, of headspan-gantry hybrid structures, where there was a solid gantry arm but it appeared rather lightweight and was supported with cables in the manner of a headspan.

They have something like that inside the train shed at Liverpool Lime St.
Solid horizontal bars are suspended over pairs of tracks from the roof, and the OHLE is then strung from the bar.
Visually quite effective.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,993
????

If it has transverse rigid metal connecting two uprights, it's a portal or gantry. If it has transverse wires instead, it's a headspan.

Sorry I couldn't remember what it was.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The logic behind using headspans at Rainhill Station (uniquely in Phase 2, as far as I can see) is talked through in here:

http://llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=101342

Basically, beauty beats beef.

Ok but I still stand by my earlier remark, I hope it isn't done like the ECML which as we all know is prone to failure particularly when the weather takes a turn for the worse.
 
Last edited:

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,947
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Ok but I still stand by my earlier remark, I hope it isn't done like the ECML which as we all know is prone to failure particularly when the weather takes a turn for the worse.

These will be 2-track headspans though, not the giant 4-track ones on the ECML and elsewhere.
And only 90mph not 125mph.
 

deltic08

On Moderation
Joined
26 Aug 2013
Messages
2,736
Location
North
I hope its done properly and not like the ECML stuff. I would have thought the headspan being a metal rather than wire structure would have been more reliable but still.

Headspan design was cheaper than portal to allow more electrification at less cost. The problem is that the headspan wires move in high winds or when two pantographs pass a headspan simultaneous causing it to oscillate quite markedly. This in turn allows the contact wire to move upwards but also sideways beyond the pantograph width in a waveform until the pan is above the wire and pulls everything down at the next headspan. Portal structures do not alloy this oscillation by holding the catenary and contact wires at each support. I think you will find that dewirement on two track headspans is almost unheard of as the headspan wire is shorter and doesn't move to the extent of a four track headspan wire moves thus reducing the amount the contact wire is allowed to move.

Dewirement on the ECML is common because electrification here was done on the cheap so the distance between headspans was increased to save money. Had they been installed closer together reducing span length of suspended contact wire then deviation would have been less and dewirement would be very much reduced. Supports at Rainhill appear to be closer together than ECML so should be ok. I hope I have made this clear. Someone on here can probably explain it better.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top