Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[SteveRainhill]

They seem to date from July 2012 (and have indeed been posted in this thread before).

Doing it incrementally is sensible enough if you want the extra capacity but don't have the funding/land to do it all at once. It can clearly be seen that the 2 phase approach was designed in such a way that you weren't really undoing much of the stage 1 work at stage 2, which was going to essentially be just throwing in an extra track and a touch more pointwork.

Thinking may well have moved on since then, and as you say doing it all at once if possible is also sensible, and is consistent with the week long blockade that appears to be planned for July 2014.

Thanks for the reminder of my original post.

Had a wander round Roby the other day. One can get fairly close to the embankment works as they are next to a playing field. But not much is to be seen. All the vegetation is stripped away, and there is what looks like a new haul road. There are patches of newish-looking rubble, perhaps where excavations have been made. But no sheet piling or signs of new concrete. Perhaps the work had been done using 'ground nails' (whatever they are!) that aren't visible from 20m or so.

The trackbed west of Roby is now somewhat clearer, and has guidelines sprayed on it. But large piles of logs and branches are still in situ between Roby and Huyton. At Roby some kind of structure was being put up on the farther disused platform, probably around the subway entrance or where they will excavate the lift shaft. The disused platforms are partially cut back and there are stacks of recovered bricks. At Huyton the infill between the disused platforms has not yet been removed. Visible progress remains pretty glacial.

A mystery is the work taking place half a mile east at the site of Huyton Quarry station. A new substation is the only thing I can think of to explain it, but I've not read anything indicating that.

Lineside residents in the vicinity (e.g. Rainhill) have received notification from NR of overnight piling works starting imminently.

Meagre news snippets I know!

 

[DJH1971]

Thanks for the reminder of my original post.

Had a wander round Roby the other day. One can get fairly close to the embankment works as they are next to a playing field. But not much is to be seen. All the vegetation is stripped away, and there is what looks like a new haul road. There are patches of newish-looking rubble, perhaps where excavations have been made. But no sheet piling or signs of new concrete. Perhaps the work had been done using 'ground nails' (whatever they are!) that aren't visible from 20m or so.

The trackbed west of Roby is now somewhat clearer, and has guidelines sprayed on it. But large piles of logs and branches are still in situ between Roby and Huyton. At Roby some kind of structure was being put up on the farther disused platform, probably around the subway entrance or where they will excavate the lift shaft. The disused platforms are partially cut back and there are stacks of recovered bricks. At Huyton the infill between the disused platforms has not yet been removed. Visible progress remains pretty glacial.

A mystery is the work taking place half a mile east at the site of Huyton Quarry station. A new substation is the only thing I can think of to explain it, but I've not read anything indicating that.

Lineside residents in the vicinity (e.g. Rainhill) have received notification from NR of overnight piling works starting imminently.

Meagre news snippets I know!

Sounds like us residents near St Helens Junction won't be too far off either.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sadly I cannot see restoring the four tracking being restored through Broadgreen in the immediate future but if Merseyrail extend the existing system through one of the tunnels at Edge Hill and/or the amount of freight using the Bootle Branch increases considerably there would clearly be a capacity issue on this part of the line.

Although concrete hasn't yet been poured, the sites for the OHLE foundations seem to have been marked out/explored on the south side of the existing tracks in Olive Mount cutting.
There's no sign they are going to span the entire 4-track layout.
How much this will impede possible future 3/4 tracking is hard to tell.
In any case, if they were going to quad the route there would be no need for a junction at Roby.
There are now blue and yellow marker sticks in the trackbed through Roby station on the new route (for one track).
Any further east is blocked by the manual signalling gubbins for Huyton box and the existing crossover.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

A mystery is the work taking place half a mile east at the site of Huyton Quarry station. A new substation is the only thing I can think of to explain it, but I've not read anything indicating that.

It's a combination OLE SATS, SSP and maintenance access.

 

[Ploughman]

It's a combination OLE SATS, SSP and maintenance access.

And that translates as?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

SNIP--
Lineside residents in the vicinity (e.g. Rainhill) have received notification from NR of overnight piling works starting imminently.
Meagre news snippets I know!

But all good. Nice steady progress is good.

Sounds like us residents near St Helens Junction won't be too far off either.

Again all good.

 

[8A Rail]

A mystery is the work taking place half a mile east at the site of Huyton Quarry station. A new substation is the only thing I can think of to explain it, but I've not read anything indicating that.

No mystery because it IS the site of a new sub station hence clearance of the trees etc on the old sidings.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They seem to date from July 2012 (and have indeed been posted in this thread before).

Doing it incrementally is sensible enough if you want the extra capacity but don't have the funding/land to do it all at once. It can clearly be seen that the 2 phase approach was designed in such a way that you weren't really undoing much of the stage 1 work at stage 2, which was going to essentially be just throwing in an extra track and a touch more pointwork.

Thinking may well have moved on since then, and as you say doing it all at once if possible is also sensible, and is consistent with the week long blockade that appears to be planned for July 2014.

The links provided is actually more or less what is going to happen hence why I provided them again. Three track first and then later on four tracks will be laid. The reason that Network Rail cannot fo four track straight away as they need to buy back some of the land (complusory purchase order) in the area of BT Telephone exchange / Huyton Bus Station and these negotiations are ongoing. If you been to the area in question the trackbed there still could accomodate four tracks but it is very tight and that does not include the space required for the masts etc. It is a sensible approach that NR are taking.

 

[OxtedL]

The links provided is actually more or less what is going to happen hence why I provided them again. Three track first and then later on four tracks will be laid.

Thank you, I did wonder. The land issue is a bit awkward for the bus station, which can't have much room in which to be moved about.

The first stage is the big job, so it's good to see it being done as quickly as possible.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

And that translates as?

Overhead Line Equipment Sectioning Auto-Transformer Site

and

Signalling Supply Point (the old one is the grey shed halfway between the station and the junction - it gets wiped out by the new junction)

 

[Ploughman]

Thanks for that.

 

[ed1971]

Sorry to put the dampers on the enthusiasm for rail electrification, but these links are worth reading:-

http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/library/downloads/emf-property-04-2013-01.pdf


http://www.greenprophet.com/2012/12/israel-electric-train-radiation/

 

[Eagle]

As a scientist, I can safely say that both those articles are bollocks.

If it was as much of a risk as they claim it is, something would have been done about electrification decades ago.

 

[The Planner]

Bakofoil hat, sorted (other brands of tin foil are available...)

 

[HSTEd]

Well.....
Pseudoscience always pops up... just depressing isn't it?

 

[Eagle]

Bakofoil hat, sorted (other brands of tin foil are available...)

Are you sure that with all the electric fields emanating from the OHL that a metallic hat won't make it worse and channel the magnetism to your brain?

 

[tom1649]

25kv? That's nothing, I've seen houses built under or near 400kv power lines.

 

[bramling]

Overhead Line Equipment Sectioning Auto-Transformer Site

and

Signalling Supply Point (the old one is the grey shed halfway between the station and the junction - it gets wiped out by the new junction)

Do we know what other overhead line equipment sites are being provided?

I know about Ordsall Lane (SATS?) and Newton-le-Willows (ATFS?), so we also have Huyton (SATS). What are the other locations for the rest of the north western electrifications?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

As a scientist, I can safely say that both those articles are bollocks.

If it was as much of a risk as they claim it is, something would have been done about electrification decades ago.

+1
I am a scientist too- chemistry/Materials Science and Engineering -and I concur with you.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Luckily Switzerland, Germany, France, Sweden, Italy etc, who all know nothing about science anyway, have much more of this dangerous electricity about on their railways than we do, and have had it for far longer.
Let's just wait for the Swiss to say "That's it, no more electric trains."

 

[Bayum]

+1
I am a scientist too- chemistry/Materials Science and Engineering -and I concur with you.

As scientists is it not your job to educate rather than allow misconceptions to be believed to be true by rubbishing information, instead of explaining why the articles aren't perhaps rated highly by yourselves?

As a teacher I find that the worst thing to do is stand by and rubbish a student's findings without giving an explanation as to why it might be wrong.

 

[ed1971]

I raised the issue of EMF as I used to be a television engineer. The World Health Organization has an in depth article about the subject here:

http://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/WhatisEMF/en/index3.html

The older type TVs with cathode ray tubes worked with a EHT supply of 20 - 24Kv. I often got an headache when in close proximity to the back of the tube due to radiation. On one occasion, I tested a faulty set. Excessive radiation was clearly being given off due to a faulty LOPT.

A few years ago I read a newspaper article about an householder who lived below 440Kv power pylons and kept having surges which kept blowing appliances. In the house he had in his hand a flourescent tube which was lit due to the radiation from the power lines!

The general consensus seems to be that electrified railways are safe, but not idiot proof as shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1fPLj-mHwE

 

[WatcherZero]

Electromagnetic induction, the way you will be recharging all your hand held gadgets in a couple of years, simply place them on a charging plate, no need to bother with wires.

 

[edwin_m]

Electromagnetic induction, the way you will be recharging all your hand held gadgets in a couple of years, simply place them on a charging plate, no need to bother with wires.

But what is the efficiency? If it's only 95% that doesn't matter for a gadget but for a train that's a big increase in the electricity bill and a load of heat to get rid of. It is offered for trams and buses by Bombardier but I don't think they have sold any yet.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

25kv? That's nothing, I've seen houses built under or near 400kv power lines.

Can I ask if there are now any planing regulations in force that forbid the building of new properties under power lines of certain voltages ?

 

[WatcherZero]

But what is the efficiency? If it's only 95% that doesn't matter for a gadget but for a train that's a big increase in the electricity bill and a load of heat to get rid of. It is offered for trams and buses by Bombardier but I don't think they have sold any yet.

Augsburg 0.8km, Mannheim 1.8km and Lommel 0.125km test sections
Braunschweig full 12km bus line

The Augsburg ones interesting as they ran trams and buses using the same power supply.

 

[edwin_m]

Augsburg 0.8km, Mannheim 1.8km and Lommel 0.125km test sections
Braunschweig full 12km bus line

The Augsburg ones interesting as they ran trams and buses using the same power supply.

Thanks for that information. Any thoughts on the efficiency gratefully received - though if the Germans are interested maybe it's quite high!

 

[tom1649]

Can I ask if there are now any planing regulations in force that forbid the building of new properties under power lines of certain voltages ?

Not that I'm aware of, no. Obviously, the higher the voltage, the bigger the clearance needed.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

11 concrete mast foundations have appeared on the south side of Olive Mount cutting, east of Wavertree station.
As predicted, they are standing in the old fast lines solum, so there mustn't be any plans for 4-tracking in the foreseeable future.

No other progress of note, either on the main line or the Wigan branch.
The mile-long gap in the catenary/contact wires at Glazebury is still there.
It's now 10 weeks since NR and DfT said Phase 1 was "complete", but it looks like several more weeks are needed before the OHLE can be powered up.

 

[8A Rail]

..... so there mustn't be any plans for 4-tracking in the foreseeable future...........

There was never any plans to begin with! NR had already shown their cards for the forseeable future with the NW electrification plans. To be honest, if it was possible, you think RT/NR would of build Wavertree Tech Park Station and sold off the land for the Tech Park in the first instance if there was ever plans to reinstate 4 track? Answers on a fifty pound note please!

 

[DJH1971]

11 concrete mast foundations have appeared on the south side of Olive Mount cutting, east of Wavertree station.
As predicted, they are standing in the old fast lines solum, so there mustn't be any plans for 4-tracking in the foreseeable future.

No other progress of note, either on the main line or the Wigan branch.
The mile-long gap in the catenary/contact wires at Glazebury is still there.
It's now 10 weeks since NR and DfT said Phase 1 was "complete", but it looks like several more weeks are needed before the OHLE can be powered up.

They need to get the finger out on that gap at Glazebury now.