Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[snowball]

As far as I know and the plans Ive seen the chord design is done, they just need the money and English heritage to get there arses in gear.

It's the Secretary of State for Transport that they need to approve the Order under the T&W Act. English Heritage had its say at the public inquiry.

 

[po8crg]

Has the inspector reported from the public inquiry yet? Secretary of State can't approve the order until the inspector has reported.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On the Wigan branch, a full set of wires is now up for about a mile through Prescot.
This makes 3 separate wired stretches on the branch.
At the eastern end the wires now extend past Ince Moss Jn round the curve towards Springs Branch.
Steelwork is now erected right up to the WCML junction.

PS - the missing gantries approaching Victoria now seem to be down to a couple over the station throat.
PPS - the 4th track at Huyton now extends all the way to the point where it begins to merge with the Up Fast.

 

[snowball]

Has the inspector reported from the public inquiry yet? Secretary of State can't approve the order until the inspector has reported.

I don't know. I would have thought so given the time since the close of the inquiry. Usually no announcement is made when the inspector sends his report to the minister. (Assuming that inquiries under the T&W Act work like inquiries under the Highways Acts. The newish procedure for "development consent orders" for "nationally significant infrastructure" is different, as we've just seen with the A556, but the Chord was prevented from using that mechanism.)

The text of the report is published simultaneously with the minister's decision, never before.

 

[LDECRexile]

On the Wigan branch, a full set of wires is now up for about a mile through Prescot.
This makes 3 separate wired stretches on the branch.
At the eastern end the wires now extend past Ince Moss Jn round the curve towards Springs Branch.
Steelwork is now erected right up to the WCML junction.

Encouraging, thank you.

In a long article in the current edition of "RAIL" (RAIL 756 pp 22-3) in which Network Rail seem to be putting a brave face on things the following disquieting passage occurs:

'Progress across phase 2 has been hampered by problems with the use of the Balfour Beatty wiring train "which we are working with the Office of Rail Regulation to get back in use", said [Network Rail Senior Sponsor John] Clee.'

Nevertheless 'Clee is still planning to have the entire Phase 2 ready for service trains in December'

Having to get ORR involved suggests that problems with the wiring train are non-trivial.

 

[tom1649]

Does Network Rail do any wiring in house? I assume that BR used to.

 

[DJH1971]

Encouraging, thank you.

In a long article in the current edition of "RAIL" (RAIL 756 pp 22-3) in which Network Rail seem to be putting a brave face on things the following disquieting passage occurs:

'Progress across phase 2 has been hampered by problems with the use of the Balfour Beatty wiring train "which we are working with the Office of Rail Regulation to get back in use", said [Network Rail Senior Sponsor John] Clee.'

Nevertheless 'Clee is still planning to have the entire Phase 2 ready for service trains in December'

Having to get ORR involved suggests that problems with the wiring train are non-trivial.

They need a right kick up the backside now.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In a long article in the current edition of "RAIL" (RAIL 756 pp 22-3) in which Network Rail seem to be putting a brave face on things the following disquieting passage occurs:
'Progress across phase 2 has been hampered by problems with the use of the Balfour Beatty wiring train "which we are working with the Office of Rail Regulation to get back in use", said [Network Rail Senior Sponsor John] Clee.'
Nevertheless 'Clee is still planning to have the entire Phase 2 ready for service trains in December'
Having to get ORR involved suggests that problems with the wiring train are non-trivial.

I haven't seen the Rail article yet. By ORR I wonder if they mean RSSB?
That would suggest it is a safety/compliance problem.
It's strange as the rig has been in use for a couple of years.
I did notice several locations today where multiple road-railer cherry pickers were parked up ready for use.
Just east of Huyton Jn on the main line there are a dozen or more tubular piles waiting to go in, presumably on the new layout.
There was a hint on here that connecting the old and new wiring at Wavertree would be done when the old wires were off last Sunday, but nothing seems to have been done to close the gap on the Chat Moss route.

 

[PDG1949]

In a long article in the current edition of "RAIL" (RAIL 756 pp 22-3) in which Network Rail seem to be putting a brave face on things the following disquieting passage occurs:

'Progress across phase 2 has been hampered by problems with the use of the Balfour Beatty wiring train "which we are working with the Office of Rail Regulation to get back in use", said [Network Rail Senior Sponsor John] Clee.'

Nevertheless 'Clee is still planning to have the entire Phase 2 ready for service trains in December'

Having to get ORR involved suggests that problems with the wiring train are non-trivial.

Here's Balfour Beatty's take on the new wiring train

http://www.bbrail.co.uk/news-article/Electrification_investment_TRE

Intersteing to note at the end of the article that the training was done at Allerton in Dec 2013 and it was intended to be deployed on Phase 2 in March 2014.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Here's Balfour Beatty's take on the new wiring train
http://www.bbrail.co.uk/news-article/Electrification_investment_TRE
Intersteing to note at the end of the article that the training was done at Allerton in Dec 2013 and it was intended to be deployed on Phase 2 in March 2014.

And it is also to be used on the Airport Jn-Maidenhead section of the GW electrification.
More delays there if it is not working (although they are still at the foundation stage).

 

[Bald Rick]

Does Network Rail do any wiring in house? I assume that BR used to.

Yes and yes.

 

[Billyblue]

Thanks for the welcome Gralistair and LDECRexile!
I noticed, this afternoon, that a stanchion base has been installed just at the top of the Huyton subway ramp where it's nearest to the track. ie near the telephone exchange where the 4th track will be..
As I type this (at 00.55) I can hear the piledriving which I reckon is near the bus station/MacDonald's area.
During the day the orange army has been reduced to a handful who are finishing off the paving at the top of the subway steps (Poplar Bank/Derby Road end), and making good the low perimeter wall in A T Mays' haulage yard, adjacent to platform 1.
The temporary ramp to the (Huyton) station entrance has been removed and concrete steps are being installed. A few men are doing tidying up work on platforms 3 and 4
Cheers!

 

[8A Rail]

Thanks for the welcome Gralistair and LDECRexile!
I noticed, this afternoon, that a stanchion base has been installed just at the top of the Huyton subway ramp where it's nearest to the track. ie near the telephone exchange where the 4th track will be..
As I type this (at 00.55) I can hear the piledriving which I reckon is near the bus station/MacDonald's area.
During the day the orange army has been reduced to a handful who are finishing off the paving at the top of the subway steps (Poplar Bank/Derby Road end), and making good the low perimeter wall in A T Mays' haulage yard, adjacent to platform 1.
The temporary ramp to the (Huyton) station entrance has been removed and concrete steps are being installed. A few men are doing tidying up work on platforms 3 and 4
Cheers!

There are few bases already in place just east of the Huyton Station. The "Orange" army (Buckingham's?) who have been working on both Huyton / Roby Stations are schedule to finish this month. In relation to the new ramp / steps at Huyton Station building has got me curious. I recall that the original outer wall surrounding the steps to the subway had sandstone bases and I wonder what happen to them? I had been advised many many years go, some of them were the original sleepers for the line from the 1830's and when you observed them, you could see were the "spikes / plugs" had been, two pair sandstone block. The blocks were rescued and therefore in-coporated into the station when built in the late 1800's. Regardless, whether fact or fiction, the blocks certainly did suggest something had been laid on them but unfortunately we will never know.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It seemed to me passing through Huyton yesterday, that the 4th track will be foul of a large cabinet of signalling equipment alongside the bus station boundary.
That will take a lot more shifting than simply knocking walls down and bulldozing a track base.
Unless I have misread the eventual layout.

 

[8A Rail]

It seemed to me passing through Huyton yesterday, that the 4th track will be foul of a large cabinet of signalling equipment alongside the bus station boundary.
That will take a lot more shifting than simply knocking walls down and bulldozing a track base.
Unless I have misread the eventual layout.

No, that will be replaced I imagine when the new revised layout is completed in two years time. Don't worry I'm sure NR have thought of everything.

 

[L+Y]

Do we know yet what sort of catenary is likely to be used on the four track section? Will it be portal structures, or double pairs of standard stanchions?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do we know yet what sort of catenary is likely to be used on the four track section? Will it be portal structures, or double pairs of standard stanchions?

Difficult to tell, as there are not enough mast bases installed yet to get a full picture.
Some bases have gone in on both sides of the route, but also in the middle in places.

 

[Billyblue]

There are few bases already in place just east of the Huyton Station. The "Orange" army (Buckingham's?) who have been working on both Huyton / Roby Stations are schedule to finish this month. In relation to the new ramp / steps at Huyton Station building has got me curious. I recall that the original outer wall surrounding the steps to the subway had sandstone bases and I wonder what happen to them? I had been advised many many years go, some of them were the original sleepers for the line from the 1830's and when you observed them, you could see were the "spikes / plugs" had been, two pair sandstone block. The blocks were rescued and therefore in-coporated into the station when built in the late 1800's. Regardless, whether fact or fiction, the blocks certainly did suggest something had been laid on them but unfortunately we will never know.

Further to the base on the Huyton village/BT side of the 4th track there's now a partner one between the 2nd and 3rd tracks and another one between the 2nd and 3rd just eastwards.
I think quite a few large sandstone blocks were recovered from the walls of the village side subway. Originally they started at ground level and then as the pavement sloped into the subway there was brickwork both above and below the blocks.
They've been stored nearby, originally just strewn around, but for the past 12 months they've been on stacked pallets where the 3rd track now is. After the July blockade they'd disappeared!
When the ground was being prepared, earlier this year, for the new subway ramp,( BT side) the remains of several brick buildings were exposed (about 20 yrds east of platforms 2 and 3). My wife remembers the former 4 platform station but says there were never any buildings just there. Does anyone know what they were?

 

[LDECRexile]

I did a Lime St-Manchester Victoria-Roby-Wigan NW-Lime St tour today and a paid a visit to the Huyton area on Sunday.

Highlights:

1. Now down to 102 bases without masts over the whole project.
2. No visible progress on the stations, viaducts and bridges previously discussed.
3. Visible progress in Manchester
4. Some progress at Roby.
5. 4th track, sleeper runs and ballast over more than 50% from Roby Jct to Huyton

1. The bases position is encouraging because the overall total has fallen, even though more have been created. The ones created fall into two groups:
1a) bases which "overlap" or "intrude" into established mast runs from the 1960s. These are noticeable at Tuebrook, West of the easternmost old mast and at Wigan, North of the southernmost old mast and at Earlestown East of the westernmost old mast.
1b) bases infilling gaps, most noticeably on the South side and a few on the North side at Huyton Junction.

Masts have been erected across the project in ones and twos, with significant numbers at the Ince Moss curve and either side of the Sankey Viaduct.

2. In addition to the sites previously discussed (M57 bridges, Sankey Viaduct, Earlestown Platforms 1&2, Rainhill Station, M6 Bridge and Carr Mill Viaduct) where there are no signs of masts or bases I have to add Manchester Victoria between Platforms 3 & 4 where there is a significant length with no droppers. It is unclear whether the scaffolding-like ironwork will support wires and fittings.

3. I could only see 4 mastless bases on the western approaches to Manchester Victoria. Lots of metalwork in the air, but no wires. Progress too on the new roof at the eastern end.

4. Roby Platform 2/3 now has a seat, but not in the waiting shelter. Teams working on Platform 4 edging and surface. Lift shaft roofs look done, but no lifts yet in service. Awning on Platform 1 still skeletal. The buried base on Platform 2/3 has been marked out; it is where the drain has a kink.

5. Track 4 extends from the eastern end of Huyton Platform 4 approx 2/3rd of the way to Roby. A run of sleepers extends from Roby Jucntion to the Roby Worksite entrance.

I could only see two mastless bases between Whiston and St Helens Junction, three if you count the mystery base behind the fence at Lea Green Station.

I have added ten photos to the end of this link:

https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

 

[8A Rail]

Difficult to tell, as there are not enough mast bases installed yet to get a full picture.
Some bases have gone in on both sides of the route, but also in the middle in places.

The following can be established already at Huyton Station. Bases are in place both ends of Platform One and Four - also in the middle of those platforms but they seem to be covered up, This suggest's stanction's are going right across all platforms with no support in the middle.

At east end of station, three pairs of bases are already in situation including the middle with remaining one being on the north side (by subway wall) and the other two being by the footpath. This suggest's the stanchions will be unsupported on one side, i.e. over one or two tracks depending which side the base is not on. Further east, piles are being driven in along the footpath but no sign of anything in the middle or other side of bus station wall. My visual observation would suggests base would be on other side of wall as space between up and down lines is not that great which means stanctions right across all lines. However, it is an observation and that is all.

 

[snowball]

I have added ten photos to the end of this link:

https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

Thanks for the great photos. Is number 293 perhaps wrongly captioned?

 

[LDECRexile]

The following can be established already at Huyton Station. Bases are in place both ends of Platform One and Four - also in the middle of those platforms but they seem to be covered up, This suggest's stanction's are going right across all platforms with no support in the middle.

At east end of station, three pairs of bases are already in situation including the middle with remaining one being on the north side (by subway wall) and the other two being by the footpath. This suggest's the stanchions will be unsupported on one side, i.e. over one or two tracks depending which side the base is not on. Further east, piles are being driven in along the footpath but no sign of anything in the middle or other side of bus station wall. My visual observation would suggests base would be on other side of wall as space between up and down lines is not that great which means stanctions right across all lines. However, it is an observation and that is all.

I agree.

A bit further east, but before the Wigan lines actually swing northwards and near the electrical building LNWR_GWR Joint mentioned, there are bases on both North and South sides of the tracks.

The flummoxing part is the easternmost 50 yards or so of the footpath, where there doesn't seem to be room for masts either on the South side or in the middle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for the great photos. Is number 293 perhaps wrongly captioned?

Confusingly written, indeed. More haste, less you know what. Is it OK now?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I did a Lime St-Manchester Victoria-Roby-Wigan NW-Lime St tour today.

I have added ten photos to the end of this link:

https://picasaweb.google.com/110155...rification20134?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmM9tLBtNTlgAE

excellent thanks.

 

[snowball]

Confusingly written, indeed. More haste, less you know what. Is it OK now?

Yes thank you!

 

[Springs Branch]

I did a Lime St-Manchester Victoria-Roby-Wigan NW-Lime St tour today and a paid a visit to the Huyton area on Sunday.

Highlights:

1. Now down to 102 bases without masts over the whole project.
2. No visible progress on the stations, viaducts and bridges previously discussed.
3. Visible progress in Manchester
4. Some progress at Roby.
5. 4th track, sleeper runs and ballast over more than 50% from Roby Jct to Huyton
................................

The Network Rail website is still talking about completion of Liverpool - Manchester/Wigan electrification by December 2014. But New Year is now only about 16 weeks away.

Given the observations on progress & outstanding work between Edge Hill & Earlestown and Huyton & Springs Branch Jn, does anyone have a view whether it's likely to be finished on schedule?

 

[8A Rail]

The Network Rail website is still talking about completion of Liverpool - Manchester/Wigan electrification by December 2014. But New Year is now only about 16 weeks away.
Given the observations on progress & outstanding work between Edge Hill & Earlestown and Huyton & Springs Branch Jn, does anyone have a view whether it's likely to be finished on schedule?

Pesonally I see no reason why not - a lot of work has been done already and you be surprised what can be acheived overnights and at weekends.

 

[LDECRexile]

The Network Rail website is still talking about completion of Liverpool - Manchester/Wigan electrification by December 2014. But New Year is now only about 16 weeks away.

Given the observations on progress & outstanding work between Edge Hill & Earlestown and Huyton & Springs Branch Jn, does anyone have a view whether it's likely to be finished on schedule?

There has been quite a lot of discussion recently on this thread concerning this very question. I suggest you go to p156 and read forwards for a page or two.

Hope this helps.

 

[PDG1949]

Forgive if this question has been asked before, but what is the significance of the lettering on the electrification mast plates? On Earlestown - Edge Hill it's labelled 'LM' - which I'm guessing might mean 'Liverpool - Manchester', but Huyton to Wigan has 'HG'. I'm guessing the 'H' could mean 'Huyton', but the 'G' leaves me scratching my head a bit - the only connection I can think of is the the WCML masts on the Wigan approach have the single letter 'G' on them. So what would the 'G' stand for?

Power feeder sites perhaps?

 

[LDECRexile]

Forgive if this question has been asked before, but what is the significance of the lettering on the electrification mast plates? On Earlestown - Edge Hill it's labelled 'LM' - which I'm guessing might mean 'Liverpool - Manchester', but Huyton to Wigan has 'HG'. I'm guessing the 'H' could mean 'Huyton', but the 'G' leaves me scratching my head a bit - the only connection I can think of is the the WCML masts on the Wigan approach have the single letter 'G' on them. So what would the 'G' stand for?

Power feeder sites perhaps?

Try this, I've not used the electrification masts section before, but the ELR stuff is amazing. Would appreciate your comments on it:

http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/electrification/mast_prefix.shtm

 

[snowball]

I thought that site had lost a lot of data since I last looked at it a year or two ago, but the longer tables now have a scrolling system, and the window in which I was viewing it in was cutting off the scrollbars!