Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[61653 HTAFC]

If the Liverpool to Blackpool North service is cut back to Preston this could create major problems at Preston. The through service is well used by families especially in the summer and lights seasons. To force everybody off at Preston on to Platforms 1/2 could create a safety problem as these platforms are so narrow.

That's a problem, but not an insurmountable one... Ormskirk services tend to use that island, but could easily use one of the south facing bays on the 'main' island as they do at times. Liverpool terminators could also, though that means more pedestrian congestion on the bridge and subway. Would much work be needed to recommission the former parcels platform? I know it was used for golf shuttles a while back...

 

[LDECRexile]

Sorry, but went and had a look on the off-chance!

No apology asked for or expected. I for one am all for you dipping your toes into the world of facts and I'm sure others are, too.

Welcome aboard.

Dave

 

[martynbristow]

That's a problem, but not an insurmountable one... Ormskirk services tend to use that island, but could easily use one of the south facing bays on the 'main' island as they do at times. Liverpool terminators could also, though that means more pedestrian congestion on the bridge and subway. Would much work be needed to recommission the former parcels platform? I know it was used for golf shuttles a while back...

Ormskirk trains have always used the bay at night but used to always use 1 during the day.
Many times I remember going into 1 in the morning but having a faff in the evening. But I think they had some direct Ormskirk to Prestons along time ago :/ but I'm not sure if thats right :P

 

[Bevan Price]

If the Liverpool to Blackpool North service is cut back to Preston this could create major problems at Preston. The through service is well used by families especially in the summer and lights seasons. To force everybody off at Preston on to Platforms 1/2 could create a safety problem as these platforms are so narrow.

I think that the cutback to Preston will just be a temporary measure, until electrification to Blackpool is complete. It is probably a better solution than retaining a few dmus whilst almost everything else is Class 319. Are the south end bays at Preston (3C/4C) long enough to contain a Class 319 ? If not, I can imagine these Liverpool services using Platform 5, which is probably less fully occupied than Platforms 1 - 4 (or 6).

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted that Phil Wieland - yes, the Phil Wieland - has kindly submitted a lot of photos for publication.

I have spent several happy hours going through them, sifting, sorting and selecting.

I will present them as a growing album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650238941151/

These are the earliest photos Phil has sent me, covering the period 2010-11.

I will add later ones dollop by dollop, then, when I've processed the lot, I'll merge them into the combined album.

Thank you Phil.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I'm delighted that Phil Wieland - yes, the Phil Wieland - has kindly submitted a lot of photos for publication.
I have spent several happy hours going through them, sifting, sorting and selecting.I will present them as a growing album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650238941151/

These are the earliest photos Phil has sent me, covering the period 2010-11.
I will add later ones dollop by dollop, then, when I've processed the lot, I'll merge them into the combined album.Thank you Phil.

Outstanding job to both of you good sirs - and Phil please keep up the great work on your own website

 

[Billyblue]

Thanks for the kind remark and clear, if regrettable, info. At least more apartments means more potential customers.

Yes, really handy for the station and if you had a view down the track you could probably make it when you saw the train coming!

Actually, there's been a fair bit of recent housing development around Prescot and Lea Green stations.

 

[PDG1949]

Yes, really handy for the station and if you had a view down the track you could probably make it when you saw the train coming!

Actually, there's been a fair bit of recent housing development around Prescot and Lea Green stations.

Having lived in the flats by Eccleston Park station for several years in the '80s, I can vouchsafe that you never needed an alarm clock !! Added to that were some sleepless weekends when the tampers were working......

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted that Phil Wieland - yes, the Phil Wieland - has kindly submitted a lot of photos for publication.

I have spent several happy hours going through them, sifting, sorting and selecting.

I will present them as a growing album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650238941151/

These are the earliest photos Phil has sent me, covering the period 2010-11.

I will add later ones dollop by dollop, then, when I've processed the lot, I'll merge them into the combined album.

Thank you Phil.

I've added and annotated a further 18, then added the final 53, unannotated at this stage. They are all arranged chronologically, newest first.

They are the final ones on Chat Moss, there will be some on the Wigan branch to follow, with a whole lot of shots of the routes to Bolton and Preston which will form a great starter for coverage of those next lines.

They are here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650238941151/

More thanks Phil, smashing stuff showing the huge changes which now tend to look ordinary as they become familiar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've now added 11 shots on the Wigan Branch and annotated the lot.

"Phil's Photos" of the Chat Moss line and the Wigan Branch is now complete.

It represents a significant contribution to the history of these lines.

It can be found here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650238941151/

Thank you Phil for your foresight 'back then' and for your unselfishness in making this material available now.

 

[L+Y]

Just one contribution from me, and it's not of the best quality: but these are the first masts erected in Olive Mount Cutting, from the platform of Wavertree station. Photo taken on the afternoon of the sixth of February 2014.

 

[Billyblue]

I'm on the case of the damage caused to the north/south part (the wide bit) of the Huyton public footpath that leads from St Mary's Road to the station. A local resident has been using the footpath to access his/her back garden and the path has been churned by mechanised diggers and not made good. There's also been fly tipping .
Network Rail say the path is the responsibility of the council but the council say it's NR. I'll be back on the case, tomorrow, but would appreciate if anyone can give a definitive answer as to whose resonsibility the path is. The diggers have now gone so the resident obviously has no intention of making good the damage.

 

[Class 170101]

If the Liverpool to Blackpool North service is cut back to Preston this could create major problems at Preston. The through service is well used by families especially in the summer and lights seasons. To force everybody off at Preston on to Platforms 1/2 could create a safety problem as these platforms are so narrow.

To reduce changing could the Buxton to Preston service not be extended to Blackpool instead?

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm on the case of the damage caused to the north/south part (the wide bit) of the Huyton public footpath that leads from St Mary's Road to the station. A local resident has been using the footpath to access his/her back garden and the path has been churned by mechanised diggers and not made good. There's also been fly tipping .
Network Rail say the path is the responsibility of the council but the council say it's NR. I'll be back on the case, tomorrow, but would appreciate if anyone can give a definitive answer as to whose resonsibility the path is. The diggers have now gone so the resident obviously has no intention of making good the damage.

I have no legal knowledge or skills, but I happened by sheer chance to be there when the path was reopened around the time of the blockade. I sticks in my mind because I was expecting it to be blocked off with access denied to view and photograph from the path proper, I was therefore well pleased.

The two blokes who were removing temporary fencing were using a council van.

Have NR or their contractors had cause to cross over the pallisade fencing? It's not obvious to me why they should.

I close as I started, these are lay observations, I know nowt much really.

 

[8A Rail]

I'm on the case of the damage caused to the north/south part (the wide bit) of the Huyton public footpath that leads from St Mary's Road to the station. A local resident has been using the footpath to access his/her back garden and the path has been churned by mechanised diggers and not made good. There's also been fly tipping .
Network Rail say the path is the responsibility of the council but the council say it's NR. I'll be back on the case, tomorrow, but would appreciate if anyone can give a definitive answer as to whose resonsibility the path is. The diggers have now gone so the resident obviously has no intention of making good the damage.

I have certainly used the path on a number of occasions since the July Blockade including the latest just before Christmas and as far as I can assess including the wide bit onto St Mary's Road, there has been no obvious condition change to it in any way what so ever. In fact I would suggest the condition of the path is just about the same prior to that blockade with the only difference with the erection of steel mesh fencing in addition to the pallasade fencing that was already in place.

I must admit I have never seen any entrance (locked gate or otherwise) to access anyone's back garden on the main path itself as it is a continious fence on both sides. Is the access on the r/h/s wide part of the path that leads from St Mary's Road?

Has the condition of the path (including alledge fly tipping) change since Christmas in the circumstances. As for the ownership of the path, being a public right of way, as far as I aware, it is the responsibilty of Knowsley MBC.

 

[Billyblue]

I have no legal knowledge or skills, but I happened by sheer chance to be there when the path was reopened around the time of the blockade. I sticks in my mind because I was expecting it to be blocked off with access denied to view and photograph from the path proper, I was therefore well pleased.

The two blokes who were removing temporary fencing were using a council van.

Have NR or their contractors had cause to cross over the pallisade fencing? It's not obvious to me why they should.

I close as I started, these are lay observations, I know nowt much really.

If it was a council van then it must be them. I'll get back on to them in the morning. I use that path most days and when it was barricaded on I continued to do so, just walking around the barriers. If it was safe to proceed then I did.

The churning hasn't been caused by NR but by the occupants of the adjacent house.

 

[nw-sparks]

I'm delighted that Phil Wieland - yes, the Phil Wieland - has kindly submitted a lot of photos for publication.

Oh I say! I don't think I've ever been referred to as the Phil Wieland before!

An early draft of a live signalling diagram for Lime Street is now available at

http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livesig/XZ

 

[Billyblue]

I have certainly used the path on a number of occasions since the July Blockade including the latest just before Christmas and as far as I can assess including the wide bit onto St Mary's Road, there has been no obvious condition change to it in any way what so ever. In fact I would suggest the condition of the path is just about the same prior to that blockade with the only difference with the erection of steel mesh fencing in addition to the pallasade fencing that was already in place.

I must admit I have never seen any entrance (locked gate or otherwise) to access anyone's back garden on the main path itself as it is a continious fence on both sides. Is the access on the r/h/s wide part of the path that leads from St Mary's Road?

Has the condition of the path (including alledge fly tipping) change since Christmas in the circumstances. As for the ownership of the path, being a public right of way, as far as I aware, it is the responsibilty of Knowsley MBC.

The whole path from St Mary's Road to the station was cleared of weeds and rubbish in the summer.
I use it on most days and the damage was caused late last week, during work carried out at the adjacent house. Their property runs adjacent to the whole length of the wide path. They'd removed a section of their back garden side fence and the diggers accessed the garden via the footpath.
No big deal in that and it's the obvious thing to do. The problem is that the path hasn't been made good and a good length is like a ploughed field. The fly tipped stuff is a load of black bags containing bits of wood which could well be old decking. There's no evidence that this came from the work being carried out but it appeared at the same time.
This section of the path can get muddy at the best of times.
I'll get onto the council tomorrow and ask them to have a look at it and take the appropriate action to make it reasonably passable.
It's quite surprising just how many people use this path to get to the station, and the shops, and I feel we should try to protect what footpaths we have left.
I'll keep you posted on the council response.

 

[PDG1949]

Oh I say! I don't think I've ever been referred to as the Phil Wieland before!

An early draft of a live signalling diagram for Lime Street is now available at

http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livesig/XZ

Wow ! Thanks for this (as always extremely interesting) and the photos. Phil - any chance of an eventual expansion eastwards - or is this determined by when areas switch over to the Manchester Control centre ?

 

[budge]

Regarding the "then and now" aspect of the Liverpool - Manchester Electrification Project this Youtube video has some validity.
Big project, big changes..

http://youtu.be/KyiRWuV92qY

 

[LDECRexile]

An early draft of a live signalling diagram for Lime Street is now available at

http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livesig/XZ

NW-sparks and this are why you are a "the".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding the "then and now" aspect of the Liverpool - Manchester Electrification Project this Youtube video has some validity.
Big project, big changes..

http://youtu.be/KyiRWuV92qY

Great find, thanks for sharing.

Looks like Summer 2012, unless anyone know different. The new flats are up on the erstwhile cinema site north of Earlestown station but no site clearance Huyton-Roby.

Any stills of Roby Forest would be greatly appreciated.

 

[thealexweb]

Regarding the "then and now" aspect of the Liverpool - Manchester Electrification Project this Youtube video has some validity.
Big project, big changes..

http://youtu.be/KyiRWuV92qY

That video reminds me. Are the extra three platforms at Salford Central going ahead? Will it be likely that the Manchester to Liverpool stopper services will call there at its (presumably numbered) Platform 5?

 

[snowball]

That video reminds me. Are the extra three platforms at Salford Central going ahead? Will it be likely that the Manchester to Liverpool stopper services will call there at its (presumably numbered) Platform 5?

The Ordsall Chord hasn't got final approval yet - it's rumoured that the Minister has put off the decision at least until next month and possibly until after the election. Network Rail was expecting it in November. So I suppose it would be premature to say the extra platforms are definitely going ahead, but the money for them is there and I'm sure they'll happen if the Chord does.

Others will know better than I do about the services but it seems likely.

 

[8A Rail]

The whole path from St Mary's Road to the station was cleared of weeds and rubbish in the summer.
I use it on most days and the damage was caused late last week, during work carried out at the adjacent house. Their property runs adjacent to the whole length of the wide path. They'd removed a section of their back garden side fence and the diggers accessed the garden via the footpath.
No big deal in that and it's the obvious thing to do. The problem is that the path hasn't been made good and a good length is like a ploughed field. The fly tipped stuff is a load of black bags containing bits of wood which could well be old decking. There's no evidence that this came from the work being carried out but it appeared at the same time.
This section of the path can get muddy at the best of times.
I'll get onto the council tomorrow and ask them to have a look at it and take the appropriate action to make it reasonably passable.
It's quite surprising just how many people use this path to get to the station, and the shops, and I feel we should try to protect what footpaths we have left.
I'll keep you posted on the council response.

In the light of this information, it would be NR contractors who need to make the path good and that I reckon will be the council's response. As for the fly tipping that may be unrelated but fly tippers will take advantage of upheavals so that could be a council responsibility to remove it. Appreciate the update's as I do use the path occasionally.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As there seems to be an interest in images prior to and during the electrification of the Merseyside part of the L&M line, please take a look at over 200 images since 2011 on this link :-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8arail/sets/72157638711552704/

Many locations covered along the line with many of them gone for good because of the line electrification but that is (welcomed) progress for you.

 

[nw-sparks]

Further to the suggestions I posted on my blog last week, I can now confirm that Victoria will be closed for five days from Good Friday to the following Tuesday.

Hopefully to finish the electrification?

The Phil Wieland
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Phil - any chance of an eventual expansion eastwards - or is this determined by when areas switch over to the Manchester Control centre ?

Moving to Manchester is not a pre-requisite, and a data feed is available for Warrington PSB, but someone would need to get me a "yellow peril".

In any case, it's already been done: Have you seen

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Signal_Box_Watcher/WN_Chat_Moss.html

which covers the whole Chat Moss route.

Phil

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Oh I say! I don't think I've ever been referred to as the Phil Wieland before!

An early draft of a live signalling diagram for Lime Street is now available at

http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livesig/XZ

That is what you get for running a first class website my friend.

 

[LDECRexile]

In the light of this information, it would be NR contractors who need to make the path good and that I reckon will be the council's response. As for the fly tipping that may be unrelated but fly tippers will take advantage of upheavals so that could be a council responsibility to remove it. Appreciate the update's as I do use the path occasionally.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As there seems to be an interest in images prior to and during the electrification of the Merseyside part of the L&M line, please take a look at over 200 images since 2011 on this link :-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8arail/sets/72157638711552704/

Many locations covered along the line with many of them gone for good because of the line electrification but that is (welcomed) progress for you.

Apart from the welcome inclusion of the Streak and the Semi every single shot seems to be spoiled by a train getting in the way.

Only kidding - wonderful stuff, thank you very much for pointing it out. Do you know of any others in this vein?

Is the blank bridge at Marshall's Cross now a footbridge?

Kind regards

Dave

 

[Billyblue]

In the light of this information, it would be NR contractors who need to make the path good and that I reckon will be the council's response. As for the fly tipping that may be unrelated but fly tippers will take advantage of upheavals so that could be a council responsibility to remove it. Appreciate the update's as I do use the path occasionally.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As there seems to be an interest in images prior to and during the electrification of the Merseyside part of the L&M line, please take a look at over 200 images since 2011 on this link :-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8arail/sets/72157638711552704/

Many locations covered along the line with many of them gone for good because of the line electrification but that is (welcomed) progress for you.

It definitely won't be NR because they haven't caused any damage. The council have told me they'll send someone around to have a look at it and will also alert the cleansing dept about the rubbish.

 

[LDECRexile]

I am delighted that George Rear has submitted his 'First Masts at Olive Mount' photo for publication.

In common with all other contributors I have opened an album specifically for George, here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650268236541/

I am taking advantage of being confined to barracks with something flu-like to do a root and branch restructure of the combined album, spurred by the wonderful flow of material received recently.

I'll advertise George's and Phil's material in there when I'm done.

I hope my absence from trackside will have the same effect as going to the lavatory during a cricket match - a hat trick, a stunning catch, six sixes in an over etc etc...

 

[deltic08]

I am delighted that George Rear has submitted his 'First Masts at Olive Mount' photo for publication.

In common with all other contributors I have opened an album specifically for George, here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650268236541/

I am taking advantage of being confined to barracks with something flu-like to do a root and branch restructure of the combined album, spurred by the wonderful flow of material received recently.

I'll advertise George's and Phil's material in there when I'm done.

I hope my absence from trackside will have the same effect as going to the lavatory during a cricket match - a hat trick, a stunning catch, six sixes in an over etc etc...

You have timed it just right. Isn't the fourth portal on Sankey viaduct due to be erected by tomorrow?

 

[LDECRexile]

I am delighted that The has done some more rooting down the back of his electronic sofa and found a dozen more photos.

I have added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650238941151/

I will annotate them and meld them into the combined album later.

Thank you Phil.