Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[LDECRexile]

My full name is Graham Alistair Howarth (hence GRALISTAIR) ex Preston Lancs, born in Chester, educated in London, but now live in Dayton Ohio USA.

The photo was taken at Man Vic by Dave BEFORE the ceramic insulators were installed etc. It was a great day out and Dave avoided using a telephoto/zoom just to show how close the wire was to grab.

I have loved this thread - it introduced terms such as TGBU -Thundering Great Big Uns - and more recently a derivation of the word "miffed" as in miffage! Keep 'em comin Dave. Life is fun.

Good to hear from you Graham, I hope you'll be in Blighty before long.

 

[LDECRexile]

Paul and I took a few photos at Manchester Victoria yesterday.

Three are relevant to Graham's Grab. I've put them in that album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157653298637359

I've put Paul's into his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381

I've put them plus my own into the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811

Righto, now it's grandadding time....

 

[PDG1949]

Unscheduled De-Vegging disrupted LlV - WGN service on Tuesday.......

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-lime-street-northern-rail-9376883


Down to the wind apparently

 

[Ploughman]

From the look of it the standard of tree clearance must have changed since 1994.
When we worked on the Leeds NW to Skipton our remit for tree clearance, except in special cases, was 6m out and 6m up from the Cess rail.
It meant an awful lot of timber had to be shifted.
But not many problems until it started regrowing.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

From the look of it the standard of tree clearance must have changed since 1994.
When we worked on the Leeds NW to Skipton our remit for tree clearance, except in special cases, was 6m out and 6m up from the Cess rail.
It meant an awful lot of timber had to be shifted.
But not many problems until it started regrowing.

Actually a great deal of tree clearance has taken place on that route while it was being wired. Not enough, evidently!
They also cleared vegetation in places like Olive Mount cutting where it looks distinctly bare now.
This might be the first "repair job" on the new NW wires.

 

[AM9]

Paul and I took a few photos at Manchester Victoria yesterday.

Three are relevant to Graham's Grab. I've put them in that album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157653298637359

I've put Paul's into his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381

I've put them plus my own into the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811

Righto, now it's grandadding time....

Great pictures Dave. It's good to see the appropriate screen placed by the footbridge steps to stop Graham getting up to mischief, (picture 4306m).
As I said in post #3973, the shield must be grounded. If anything bridged the 25kV conductors and an ungrounded shield, (even something like a piece of wet string), it would make the shield live and could cause a fatality even just by coming within 3-4 inches of the metal.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Great pictures Dave. It's good to see the appropriate screen placed by the footbridge steps to stop Graham getting up to mischief, (picture 4306m).
As I said in post #3973, the shield must be grounded. If anything bridged the 25kV conductors and an ungrounded shield, (even something like a piece of wet string), it would make the shield live and could cause a fatality even just by coming within 3-4 inches of the metal.

What is the standard for 25kV AC OHLE? To my UK home there is 240 V 100 amp and they use 10mm earth bonding - or possibly more. What sort of bonding would it be - 25mm equipotential earth bonding?

 

[AM9]

What is the standard for 25kV AC OHLE? To my UK home there is 240 V 100 amp and they use 10mm earth bonding - or possibly more. What sort of bonding would it be - 25mm equipotential earth bonding?

I don't know as I'm not a rail engineer. It does seem to be bolted to the support in several places so it should benefit from the track to pillar bonding which ISTR is something like a 20mm dia cable. That also covers lightning protection.
By the way, I think that a 230V 100A domestic connection now requires a 16mm cross-bond (gas/water) and then 6mm, (it all helps to keep the price of copper up!).

 

[8A Rail]

Actually a great deal of tree clearance has taken place on that route while it was being wired. Not enough, evidently!
They also cleared vegetation in places like Olive Mount cutting where it looks distinctly bare now.
This might be the first "repair job" on the new NW wires.

And yes not enough, that is for sure. It will happen again before too long. I think the main issue if the trees / branches are not within NR boundary, they are left untouched. It is those trees that will cause the problems initially but in the medium term, those on NR property which have been cut / trimmed will spring up quickly again! It is a vicious circle sadly but I think in some places a better cutting job could of been carried out by NR Contractors.

 

[Billyblue]

And yes not enough, that is for sure. It will happen again before too long. I think the main issue if the trees / branches are not within NR boundary, they are left untouched. It is those trees that will cause the problems initially but in the medium term, those on NR property which have been cut / trimmed will spring up quickly again! It is a vicious circle sadly but I think in some places a better cutting job could of been carried out by NR Contractors.

I'm not sure what the legal situation is regarding trees that may interfere with the railway but are not actually on railway land.
Alongside the Huyton railway footpath, trees overhanging the footpath were cut back during the July blockade. The trees are on private land and the path is the responsibility of Knowsley Council.
Shortly before the electrification scheme was announced the owner of the haulage yard adjacent to platform 1, at Huyton, was served a notice that HE had to make the trees on his land 'safe'
The trees have since been removed, anyway, and flats are being built on the site (very handy for the train!)

 

[AM9]

I'm not sure what the legal situation is regarding trees that may interfere with the railway but are not actually on railway land.
Alongside the Huyton railway footpath, trees overhanging the footpath were cut back during the July blockade. The trees are on private land and the path is the responsibility of Knowsley Council.
Shortly before the electrification scheme was announced the owner of the haulage yard adjacent to platform 1, at Huyton, was served a notice that HE had to make the trees on his land 'safe'
The trees have since been removed, anyway, and flats are being built on the site (very handy for the train!)

It is the responsibility of landowners to keep the growth of their trees within the boundary of that land. Parts of trees overhanging adjacent land not removed by their owners can be removed, (ultimately at the cost of the person whose land they are growing on) by those whose land they are interfering with.
This is a very common problem in the south when residents have got used to an ever increasing density of trees and hedgerows alond the sides of railway lines obscuring the tracks and trains. Eventually, the trees start to cause operating problems (seasonal leaf fall) and sometimes a danger (obstructing the track in high winds). When NR takes steps to rectify the problem there are usually howls of complaint, and of course the local news rags chime in from a zero knowledge of the facts starting point.
This even gets daft when residents try to stop NR managing trees entirely on railway land claiming loss of amenity.

 

[snowball]

There's an article in the current Modern Railways about how, in some areas, control of trees has begun to be taken seriously.

 

[The Snap]

It is the responsibility of landowners to keep the growth of their trees within the boundary of that land. Parts of trees overhanging adjacent land not removed by their owners can be removed, (ultimately at the cost of the person whose land they are growing on) by those whose land they are interfering with.
This is a very common problem in the south when residents have got used to an ever increasing density of trees and hedgerows alond the sides of railway lines obscuring the tracks and trains. Eventually, the trees start to cause operating problems (seasonal leaf fall) and sometimes a danger (obstructing the track in high winds). When NR takes steps to rectify the problem there are usually howls of complaint, and of course the local news rags chime in from a zero knowledge of the facts starting point.
This even gets daft when residents try to stop NR managing trees entirely on railway land claiming loss of amenity.

When trees start to cause operational problems such as obstructing signals, or restricting the sighting of signals, they get cut back. The local rags and residents and protest all they like, it won't matter a toss.

It would be interesting to see if they moaned as much (or I suspect more), when their trains get cancelled or delayed a result of not maintaining the trees...

 

[8A Rail]

I'm not sure what the legal situation is regarding trees that may interfere with the railway but are not actually on railway land.
Alongside the Huyton railway footpath, trees overhanging the footpath were cut back during the July blockade. The trees are on private land and the path is the responsibility of Knowsley Council.
Shortly before the electrification scheme was announced the owner of the haulage yard adjacent to platform 1, at Huyton, was served a notice that HE had to make the trees on his land 'safe'
The trees have since been removed, anyway, and flats are being built on the site (very handy for the train!)

I am already aware of the above as I have taken images around those area's. There is many places along the line where trees have been cut back but not sufficent to stop growth and will be back to square one in 12 or so months! There are three very big trees near Whiston - Ropers Bridge (not on NR property) although cut back on one side but sooner or later one or all will come crashing down on the line.

 

[WatcherZero]

When trees start to cause operational problems such as obstructing signals, or restricting the sighting of signals, they get cut back. The local rags and residents and protest all they like, it won't matter a toss.

It would be interesting to see if they moaned as much (or I suspect more), when their trains get cancelled or delayed a result of not maintaining the trees...

Don't think its so much in response to increased problems but a pre-emptive assault with the motivation of eking out whatever small increase in performance targets they can get.

 

[AM9]

Don't think its so much in response to increased problems but a pre-emptive assault with the motivation of eking out whatever small increase in performance targets they can get.

Do you mean as in trees and large branches falling accross the tracks make trains a bit late?

 

[WatcherZero]

More the worry that their PPMs are so bad and not showing signs of improvement, their facing substantial fines for poor performance and so would resort to prayer beads and chanting if they thought it might improve the figures by even a fraction of a percent. 'Problem', 'kitchen sink' and 'throw' come to mind.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

More the worry that their PPMs are so bad and not showing signs of improvement, their facing substantial fines for poor performance and so would resort to prayer beads and chanting if they thought it might improve the figures by even a fraction of a percent. 'Problem', 'kitchen sink' and 'throw' come to mind.

There's a reasonably lengthy write up about vegetation management in Modern Railways this month, with some information about what to expect and where on the LNE & EM and ScR routes this year.

LNE and EM region claim to have reduced leaf fall and related delays from 8000 minutes to 5000 minutes during Autumn 2014 just by clearing lineside vegetation, and hope to achieve further reductions with more tree removal this year.

I've not had a proper look through the delay figures to work out if they are actually cutting delays, or whether something else is being blamed in the absence of leaf fall.

Network Rail community relations could do with reminding home owners/tenants about securing trampolines effectively, they rack up a fair number of delay minutes, especially on electrified parts of the network, during times of high winds.

 

[Bevan Price]

What were the "overhead wire problems" in the Huyton area today (5 June) ? 11:32 Lime St. - Wigan delayed here by almost 2 hours, and several other trains cancelled.

 

[DJH1971]

What were the "overhead wire problems" in the Huyton area today (5 June) ? 11:32 Lime St. - Wigan delayed here by almost 2 hours, and several other trains cancelled.

Can't understand. Weather was okay.

 

[3270]

What were the "overhead wire problems" in the Huyton area today (5 June) ? 11:32 Lime St. - Wigan delayed here by almost 2 hours, and several other trains cancelled.

I believe a bird's nest in the OHL caused a bit of a loud bang and a flash. Nothing wrong with the wires themselves and services resumed once everything had been checked and found to be OK.

 

[LDECRexile]

I've wanged a few more photos on the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Finally, the missing length of AT wire has gone up over the Up line between Huyton Jn and Huyton Quarry.
So I think we can now declare Phase 2 wiring COMPLETE!

 

[snowball]

Do we know whether all the power supplies, autotransformer wires, autotransformers and track sectioning cabins are operational?

 

[507 001]

I believe a bird's nest in the OHL caused a bit of a loud bang and a flash. Nothing wrong with the wires themselves and services resumed once everything had been checked and found to be OK.

Quick roast chicken?

 

[PDG1949]

Quick roast chicken?

Guess all's well that ends well so long as nobody landed in the soup over it....

 

[Tirov]

Now that the Ticket Gates have been installed and are working at Manchester Victoria I wonder whether there has been an increase in Ticket Income for the trains that stop and start at Victoria?

 

[Statto]

Guess all's well that ends well so long as nobody landed in the soup over it....

Passengers in a flap over the delays, at least it wasn't fowl play.

 

[Donny Dave]

Guess all's well that ends well so long as nobody landed in the soup over it....

I wonder if that was the most egg-citing thing to happen this year! :roll:

 

[LDECRexile]

Paul and I went out and about in Salford and Bolton today.

Specifically:

1. Eccles (Phase 2) in pursuit of two Then and Now quests, we solved one of them
2. Oldfield Road Bridge - open to road and pedestrian traffic. Some minor works being completed, mainly by brickies.
3. Ordsall Lane Junction, electric and diesel traction
4. Middlewood Locks, Salford, 319s and 185s on show
5. Dixon Fold Footbridge, open to pedestrians, all work complete, looks great. Invasive plants nearby look dreadful.
6. Farnworth Tunnel, south end, work continuing apace, difficult to interpret what has changed. Found new photographic location atop the tunnel.
7. Farnworth Tunnel, north end, work continuing apace.

Photos later, Bridgeoscope in due course.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Paulo and I were mulling what remains to be done on Phase 2. We reckon:

1. Autotransformer system to be tested and made live.
2. Allerton Depot works.
3. Training and EMUs to electrify Lime St-Earlestown-Warrington Bank Quay service
4. Sankey Viaduct cleaning
5. Roby Jct-Huyton Jct 4th track. (Surely claims re this in RAIL 776 p21 are tripe?)

Owt else anyone?

Edit:

I've added a photo from 1980 kindly sent by Peter Conroy to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649772527390

I've added yesterday's Phase 2 photos kindly donated by Paul Gaskell to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381

I've added them and some I took to the Phase 2 Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648494725811

Thank you Peter and Paul.

I'll add captions over the next couple of days.