Manchester Metrolink master thread

[Nym]

Just running as additionals would avoid a lot of hassle with the Metrolink Franchisee then, since they can run it under a different franchise (that would be a member of the ATOC?)

 

[WatcherZero]

The Sheffield tram-train trial will be operated by Northern who will drive the tram-trains on the tram network.

 

[Nym]

So working off the same model of operation, Northern could run the Tram-Trains onto the metrolink network after Navigation Road, and then run these as additional services into say, Piccadilly via Picc Gardens, 2 or 3tph, slotted into the current diagrams.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If Metrolink was to share the line with freight or other passenger trains then all Metrolink services to Altrincham would need to be tram-train. If that happened it would also allow passenger trains and freight to use the line through Sale to reach Deansgate heavy rail station, subject to other factors such as signalling and weight of units allowed on the newly laid track.

Not much hope of seeing mixed services then.

 

[Nym]

Paul, it could be as discribed overleaf with TT Services using the heavy line through Nav Rd, and Trams using the met line. Changing over north of nav rd.

 

[familyguy99]

Hi

Update on Metrolink Capital Update

Oldham Rochdale Extension

The track and infrastructure, Overhead Line Equipment (OLE) and tram
stops works are now substantially complete to Oldham Mumps temporary
stop.

Dynamic vehicle testing required to ensure the infrastructure is ready for
passenger service will take place over the next few months.

As a result of the technical interface complexities encountered at the
junctions and subject to appropriate testing and commissioning, rather
than a phased opening as originally proposed, it is now anticipated to
commence services from Victoria Station to Oldham Mumps via Central
Park. Work is being undertaken over the next few weeks to assess the
implications for opening dates and an update will be provided to the
Combined Authority meeting on the 16th December and to the 20th
January meeting of the TfGM Policy and Capital Committee.

By introducing the service direct to Oldham Mumps the driver training
element of the works can be delivered much more effectively and
efficiently than previously envisaged with the original two staged
approach.

Oldham Rochdale extension to Rochdale Station

This stage is the section from Oldham Mumps to Rochdale Station, which
incorporates a long section of single line with bi-directional working which
will require several weeks of driver training.
Earthworks continue to progress along the line. Construction of the stops
is underway and bridge refurbishment work is ongoing. Track and OLE
works are currently being installed throughout the southern end of the
section.

Again, there is a key interface with Network rail in terms of introducing
Metrolink in the vicinity of Rochdale Railway Station and the Calder
Valley line.
With the issues experienced with the TMS programme on other parts of
the network, a 2-3 month delay to the opening date beyond Summer
2012 may arise. This will be kept under close review as TMS is rolled out
across the network.

East Manchester extension to Ashton

The entire outbound track has been laid from Manchester Piccadilly to
Droylsden, and the final sections of inbound track in the Droylsden area
are under construction. The overhead line is energised to Velopark and is
being installed along the remainder of the route.

Stop construction is progressing along the line and footway resurfacing is
also underway along Ashton New Road.

Good progress is being made on the section of line to Ashton with
construction continuing on drainage, track, tram stops and highway
works.

Consideration is also being given to the possibility of opening as far as
the Etihad Stadium, in advance of the full opening to Droylsden. This is
the subject of on-going discussions with the contractors and the operator.

The Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs) for the tramway along Ashton New
Road, Droylsden, have attracted some objections from the local
community and their representatives. In order to address these issues,
detailed discussions are on-going to develop and finalise agreed
mitigations.

As reported in the 24th June 2011 paper to the Committee, following the
changes at Droylsden to an island platform, the opening date for the East
Manchester extension was revised to Summer 2012. As a result of the
changes to the TMS implementation programme a consequential delay of
an additional 3 months to the opening of the line to Droylsden is likely.
The delivery of the line will be kept under close review as TMS is rolled
out across the system to identify whether the risk of a 3 month delay can
be mitigated.[/QUOTE]

http://www.transportforgreatermanch...ds/file/4233/item_08_metrolink_capital_update

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The "long single-line link" referred to in the Oldham to Rochdale section of this route was something that could be an operational nightmare should a tram fail on this section, which will have implications for the Rochdale area. The matter of the bridge near to Rochdale, where costs decided that a single line running would be acceptable rather than to have spent money on the bridge to allow double line running, was a retrograde step on a brand new transport system for the area.

If you want a comparison on what a long single line section can mean when operational difficulties should arise, then look no further than the long single line section on the railway in-between Bromley Cross and Darwen.

 

[WatcherZero]

It like heavy rail is a 'public carriageway' any laws on obstruction of public carriageways would therefore apply.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At 1400 in Shudehill in central Manchester, a car crashed into a post that supports the overhead wires on the Manchester Metrolink system. The car driver was killed and a female passenger was taken to hospital suffering from serious injuries. The car was then blocking the route of the tramway and there were no Metrolink services running between Piccadilly station and Manchester Victoria station.

 

[Nym]

OK, I'm going to sound horrible here, but why was the car anywhere near the OHL Supports at Sudhill?

All I can think is that something broke and the driver lost control..

 

[185]

I was there yesterday, was a horrid scene. The car came out the Arndale multistorey, turned left down the hill, got to the bottom by the lights and just prior to the turn the driver suffered a heart attack. As he should have braked for the sharp 90-100degree right turn, he instead accellerated and the automatic car simply kept going, failed to negotiate the sharp turn and at a fair speed went head on into the OHLE pole at the top of the inbound platform. I went past at 14.10 and a paramedic was really trying hard, doing CPR on one of the casualties.

Metrolink was turning the Burys back at Victoria, whilst everything else from the other side of Manchester was terminating at Piccadilly, and buses were covering Vic-Picc within an hour of the smash. Line reopened fully after a structures inspection at about 9pm.

 

[northernrail]

Without looking like im trying to take the subject away from the car crash, looks like TMS may have failed again.

"30/11/2011 - 17:33 Delays to the service
Metrolink Services

Due to a signal fault on the Bury line, we are currently having to pass the signals at caution, causing delay to the service on the Bury and Altrincham lines.

Due to a signal fault on the Bury line, South Manchester Line service to St. Werburghs Road is operating from Piccadilly.

Metrolink apologise for any inconvenience this may cause."

 

[WatcherZero]

TMS hasnt been installed on the Bury line, its only operational on the Eccles line beyond Pomona and their reportedly going to have a second attempt at getting the Trafford Depot entrance switched over in early December. Signalling is now running three months behind the track and electrification works.

 

[northernrail]

ah, so its a normal signal failure then..well a big one...

 

[familyguy99]

Hi

Metrolink tram extensions to Oldham, Rochdale and Droylsden delayed by 'technical compexities'

The opening of the next phase of the £1.4bn 'big bang' Metrolink expansion looks set to be delayed by a troublesome computer system.

Transport bosses are set to tell the region's council leaders that completion work on the planned extensions to Oldham, Rochdale and Droylsden could have to be put back.

The new system, called Tram Management System (TMS), is designed to electronically 'map' the position of every tram and automatically control points and signals.

But it caused major disruption after it underwent trials at MediaCity last September and separate problems also delayed the Chorlton extension.

A report now says 'technical complexities' are delaying the roll-out of TMS across the expanding network.

Bosses said in summer that the first stage of the Oldham line to Central Park, which had been due in spring, was being put back until winter and the second phase to Oldham Mumps was being delayed from autumn to next spring.

The Central Park stage is not now expected to open until the Oldham Mumps stage opens – and transport officials are assessing whether that will be put back from spring.

A report also says a delay of between two and three months 'may arise' on the already-delayed Rochdale extension – putting it back to next autumn.

The report says a three month delay on the Droylsden line is also 'likely', which would also put it back to next autumn.

Progress on the Droylsden and Rochdale extensions will be kept under 'close review'.

Planned extensions to Ashton, Didsbury and Manchester Airport are unaffected.

Philip Purdy, TfGM Metrolink director, said the new system would deliver a 'great deal of benefits' for passengers including real-time passenger information.

He said: “The problem is that the new system is as advanced as the current system is old and making them work together at this higher level is proving to be a significant challenge.”

The 'big bang' is earmarked for completion in 2016 and would make Metrolink the biggest tram network in Britain.

Earlier this year the M.E.N. revealed that the TMS system was responsible for 24 service failures on the MediaCity 'spur' between September 2010 and February this year.

Engineers spent eight months sitting in a van next to the line watching trams go through the junction as part of 'manual monitoring' of the system.

We can today reveal that TMS has been behind tram disruption totalling more than 80 hours on the MediaCity 'spur' between January and May this year.

Data obtained under the Freedom of Information Act shows that this included a single 72-hour period of disruption due to a 'signalling irregularity' at the MediaCity junction on April 9.

TMS has not been to blame for any disruption on the spur since May.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...nd-droylsden-delayed-by-technical-compexities

the same is on TFGM website too

http://www.tfgm.com/tfgm_news.cfm?news_id=9008248?submenuheader=3

 

[Nym]

No wonder Thales want systems engineers for Cheadle Heath

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Metrolink tram extensions to Oldham, Rochdale and Droylsden delayed by 'technical compexities'
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...nd-droylsden-delayed-by-technical-compexities

the same is on TFGM website too...
http://www.tfgm.com/tfgm_news.cfm?news_id=9008248?submenuheader=3

Not exactly a good public relations exercise in promoting the Manchester Metrolink, is it ?

 

[185]

Thales have a lot to answer for. IMO much of the delay down to them not planning properly, and expecting hastily installed things to work first time around.

That said, if it worked, the TMS would be a leading example of good practise. New control room seems to be coming on well at Old Trafford depot.

 

[tbtc]

Thales have a lot to answer for. IMO much of the delay down to them not planning properly, and expecting hastily installed things to work first time around

To be fair, the problems in Greater Manchester are fairly minor compared to the problems that a lot of similar projects have - not ideal of course but I bet Edinburgh would be grateful for (just) such "small" problems

 

[Nym]

Thales have a lot to answer for. IMO much of the delay down to them not planning properly, and expecting hastily installed things to work first time around.

That said, if it worked, the TMS would be a leading example of good practise. New control room seems to be coming on well at Old Trafford depot.

I'm holding off on badmouthing Thales at Cheadle Heath until I find out if the're going to employ me or not

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With regard to the East Manchester line, work is now progressing on the Droylsden to Ashton under Lyne section. There have been detailed discussions in meetings with Tameside MBC, as a result of the feedback from the residents along the line.

One matter in particular has been clarified in these meetings and amongst the amendments to the scheme in the areas of the advertised Traffic Regulation Orders is that there will be no raised tram line as part of the proposals and it is now stated that the tram lane will be at the same level as the adjacent road surface.

Other works as part of the Metrolink plans include a waiting/loading bay for the shops at Kershaw Lane, parking for shops at Assheton Avenue and a residents parking scheme on Droylsden Road.

There will be an information event for residents today, Monday 12th December 2011, from 1530 to 1930 at the Aldwinians Rugby Club, where members of the public will be able to view the plans and to speak to Metrolink team members on a one-to-one basis about the Traffic Regulation Orders and the general Metrolink scheme. This venue was chosen as it has both disabled parking and wheelchair access.

 

[Samtron2000]

Thales have a lot to answer for. IMO much of the delay down to them not planning properly, and expecting hastily installed things to work first time around.

And you are the expert in shining hi-viz that will sort the problems out...... No, thought not!!! Can you prove they have done insufficient planning - no. Can you prove they have been hasty - no. Can you prove they believed solutions to work first time - no!!

 

[185]

And you are the expert in shining hi-viz that will sort the problems out...... No, thought not!!! Can you prove they have done insufficient planning - no. Can you prove they have been hasty - no. Can you prove they believed solutions to work first time - no!!

Manchester Evening News stated that when interviewed, TfGM explained that the installation of network wide signalling failed to work first time round. They also now concede that deadlines for it's completion have now been missed. If a perfectly good bit of kit doesn't work, it suggests it was not installed correctly. Hence my above post.

But you are correct, in stating that my lovely hi-viz is dead shiny.

 

[WatcherZero]

There was an issue where they initially installed axle counters at ground level rather than rail height and it wasnt always picking up the vehicle going over but its mostly a software issue thats holding everything up.

 

[Nym]

There was an issue where they initially installed axle counters at ground level rather than rail height and it wasnt always picking up the vehicle going over but its mostly a software issue thats holding everything up.

Well, Thales declined my application so now I can slag off their systems engineering department...

How do you screw up this kind of software, it's relatively simple engineering.

 

[WatcherZero]

Safety critical systems in any field are never simple engineering, you have to anticipate and program the system to deal with every possible combination of pathing events and hardware failures of individual or multiple components while also ensuring integrity checks so that a malfunctioning component isnt incorectly believed to be working.

 

[northernrail]

Will there be any signals on the system, and how will the system be different when TMS comes into use, the whole thing is confusing me.....


Post 500!!!! Such a honor...

 

[WatcherZero]

Switched from heavy rail coloured aspect lights to tram style points indicators. Horizontal line means stop, diagonal left means points set left, diagonal right means points set right and vertical means safe to proceed straight on. The signals control the points/road crossings and stop conflicting moves, the drivers themselves work under line of sight operation like driving a car, you can share the same stretch of track and its the drivers responsibility not to hit the vehicle in front. This means for example you are allowed to catch up to the tram in front and even share the same platform as long as signals arent against you.

It allows higher density flows as your not operating block signalling with one vehicle restriction in each signal block but can literally have a line of vehicles.

 

[Nym]

Safety critical systems in any field are never simple engineering, you have to anticipate and program the system to deal with every possible combination of pathing events and hardware failures of individual or multiple components while also ensuring integrity checks so that a malfunctioning component isnt incorectly believed to be working.

Compared to some of the systems I've seen implemented by one guy in a lab, it's not that complex (Yes I am aware of the nature of safety critical programming)

 

[Samtron2000]

Compared to some of the systems I've seen implemented by one guy in a lab, it's not that complex (Yes I am aware of the nature of safety critical programming)

Arghhhhhhhh. All this computer chair expertise really grinds my gears!!!! If all those on here who think the solution is **** simple, give Thales a call and get it sorted!! Really, come one guys.