Manchester Metrolink

[Grimsby town]

It was the suggestion that seemed to imply Parrs Wood was only considered in relation to bus service provision from there to Stockport, but besides the bus routes to Manchester and to Cheadle from there that I mentioned in my earlier posting, it is also well placed to serve East Didsbury railway station and East Didsbury Metrolink station.

Nope I mean onwards to places like Bredbury, Denton, Marple etc. I wouldn't say the rail connections and Manchester City Centre bus connections are too relevant because there's not many conceivable journeys that people would use the tram for. The important connections are places like Cheadle and other suburban areas which is where Stockport has a lot more options.

By the time a Metrolink line reaches Stockport its very likely Greater Manchester will have integrated tram and train fares and there will be no price difference. People who are price conscious will take the 192 than Metrolink because its likely to be cheaper (assuming London fare structures). Diversionary routes do not make a meaningful difference to business cases. Didsbury - Stockport does have a decent business case but I am not convinced it will be at the top of TfGM list. Its likely to be £300m for a single tram service 5tph.

Top of the list will probably be extending the airport line to Manchester Airport terminal 2, followed by Bury - Heywood - Rochdale tram train. If the central government wants to provide cash to free up heavy rail capacity at Piccadilly then Glossop and Rose Hill would take priority.

Intetgrated pricing doesn't necessarily mean that the price of a mode will be the same. Assuming a zonal price structure, travelling from Stockport to e.g. Media City will always be more expensive travelling through the city centre, rather than an orbital route, will always be more expensive as it travels through more zones. Without adding complexity to the fare system, its not really possible to change that.

Diversionary routes don't do much for the economic case but they certainly strengthen the strategic case particularly when we want a resilient transport network. The Stockport corridor is a huge point of failure currently. I wrote part of a strategic case for this line earlier on in my career.

Priority wise, It seems fairly high up Burnham's list. Tram-train doesn't sound like it's going brilliantly to me currently. Even if it does happen, and I hope it does, Oldham-Heywood is a proof of concept so will need a few years operating before further systems are implemented. I think Glossop and Rose Hill are years off. Manchester Airport T2 might happen first but its only short. I think Stockport will be done before 2030.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Priority wise, It seems fairly high up Burnham's list. Tram-train doesn't sound like it's going brilliantly to me currently. Even if it does happen, and I hope it does, Oldham-Heywood is a proof of concept so will need a few years operating before further systems are implemented. I think Glossop and Rose Hill are years off. Manchester Airport T2 might happen first but its only short. I think Stockport will be done before 2030.

Agreed, and something else that has not been mentioned on this thread is that there is significant demand from Didsbury to Stockport currently using the 4bph 42/42A, which would be a much easier journey on the tram.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Agreed, and something else that has not been mentioned on this thread is that there is significant demand from Didsbury to Stockport currently using the 4bph 42/42A, which would be a much easier journey on the tram.

Does one of those services still go on to Reddish via the Stockport suburbs?

 

[Pete 1981]

Does one of those services still go on to Reddish via the Stockport suburbs?

42A still terminates at the Bulls Head stop in Reddish.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Does one of those services still go on to Reddish via the Stockport suburbs?

Yes, but there is not much demand to Reddish from before Stockport town centre. It's 2 routes melded together for convenience essentially, given the train or 203 bus is faster for access to Manchester city centre from Reddish.

 

[PlatformEdgeVT]

Does anyone know how long 3023 will be carrying the Hamilton (Tramilton) livery for?

 

[sprunt]

Bury - Heywood - Rochdale tram train.

Is there a detailed proposal for this anywhere? I'm assuming it would be using the East Lancs - are there any details of proposed additional stops along the route or would it just be Heywood between Bury and the national rail lines currently in use?

 

[WatcherZero]

Theres two proposals, Lancashires which is to run tram-trains on the ELR (not all heritage stops would have calls but there would be a couple of new stations) from a new P&R just outside Rawenstall but rather than terminating at Bury Bolton Road they would instead continue past the station calling at a new high level station on Pyramid Park where you could transfer to Metrolink via a new southern Bury Interchange station entrance or continue onward to Heywood and possibly Manchester Victoria running on National Rail. Then theres Greater Manchesters proposal which is to run a tram-train from Oldham to Rochdale, a short jaunt on national rail tracks then onto the disused part of the ELR to Heywood then terminate at Bury Interchange (picture below). Of course the two proposals aren't incompatible.

 

[iknowyeah]

On a completely different note, in the city centre, the Cornbrook corridor and various stretches on the Altrincham line there seems to be a lot of very restrictive speed restrictions, which seem to be long term. I'm specifically thinking of the one at Dane Road, and where Mosley Street station was, but these are just to name a couple. Is there a reason these don't seem to be a priority to be removed?

 

[AlastairFraser]

On a completely different note, in the city centre, the Cornbrook corridor and various stretches on the Altrincham line there seems to be a lot of very restrictive speed restrictions, which seem to be long term. I'm specifically thinking of the one at Dane Road, and where Mosley Street station was, but these are just to name a couple. Is there a reason these don't seem to be a priority to be removed?

I think the reason with the Mosley Street one might be because the curve radius of the junctions (not sure if that is the correct terminology) around Picc Gardens and the pedestrian footfall in the area means most of the section is limited speed anyway.

 

[WatcherZero]

On a completely different note, in the city centre, the Cornbrook corridor and various stretches on the Altrincham line there seems to be a lot of very restrictive speed restrictions, which seem to be long term. I'm specifically thinking of the one at Dane Road, and where Mosley Street station was, but these are just to name a couple. Is there a reason these don't seem to be a priority to be removed?

Some of it is supplier delay in fabricating the replacement rail sections during co-vid and some of it is they need to close the line for a possession they would rather do several jobs at once, city centre possessions would mean the majority of services during the work being shut down or on reduced timetables.
Theres Track Replacement works scheduled between Bury and Whitefield, and Freehold and Rochdale town centre on the weekend of 4/5th November.

 

[TheSmiths82]

Has anybody else noticed how bad some of the infrastructure is now looking? A lot of the station signs are faded and some of the shelters have very bad corrosion. Even the contactless pods are rusting at some stations. It seems that ongoing maintenance at stations is very poor and I think now a full scale network wide refurbishment is required.

 

[Danfilm007]

Has anybody else noticed how bad some of the infrastructure is now looking? A lot of the station signs are faded and some of the shelters have very bad corrosion. Even the contactless pods are rusting at some stations. It seems that ongoing maintenance at stations is very poor and I think now a full scale network wide refurbishment is required.

It will come with wider Bee Network changes, there is a whole "brand package" to be introduced.

Some of the trams seem a bit rusty too!

 

[ReturnToSPT]

The altrincham line rails must be up for replacement soon too? Quality of the ride is terrible, especially between Timperley and Altrincham.

 

[TheSmiths82]

The altrincham line rails must be up for replacement soon too? Quality of the ride is terrible, especially between Timperley and Altrincham.

From memory it was last done around 2009 or 2010 so possibly is due for renewal, I have no idea how long tracks should last but I am pretty sure when it was done in around 14-15 years ago the track dated from when it was a British Rail line. The Didsbury line is now over 10 years old yet the ride quality is still very good on that line. I don't use the Altrincham line that often but I find the ride between Stretford and Sale to be very poor.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I don't use the Altrincham line that often but I find the ride between Stretford and Sale to be very poor.

That fast(ish) section of line (the mile and a bit from Stretford to Dane Road in particular) has always been "interesting", the decidedly sporty ride quality dating back to BR days when the bouncy seated Class 304 electric multiple units were still in use, the seats invariably throwing up clouds of dust.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The 304s did that on all sections of track! The M5000s are terribly rough-riding at speed and hunt everywhere. The T68s were much smoother. Hopefully any new tram- train stock will show an improvement.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is the long line section from Bury to Radcliffe one that has land problems that lead to hunting?

 

[ic31420]

Theres two proposals, Lancashires which is to run tram-trains on the ELR (not all heritage stops would have calls but there would be a couple of new stations) from a new P&R just outside Rawenstall but rather than terminating at Bury Bolton Road they would instead continue past the station calling at a new high level station on Pyramid Park where you could transfer to Metrolink via a new southern Bury Interchange station entrance or continue onward to Heywood and possibly Manchester Victoria running on National Rail. Then theres Greater Manchesters proposal which is to run a tram-train from Oldham to Rochdale, a short jaunt on national rail tracks then onto the disused part of the ELR to Heywood then terminate at Bury Interchange (picture below). Of course the two proposals aren't incompatible.

Pyramid Park is outlined for housing development and has recently been in the press to this end.

Some of it is supplier delay in fabricating the replacement rail sections during co-vid and some of it is they need to close the line for a possession they would rather do several jobs at once, city centre possessions would mean the majority of services during the work being shut down or on reduced timetables.
Theres Track Replacement works scheduled between Bury and Whitefield, and Freehold and Rochdale town centre on the weekend of 4/5th November.

I actually visited this thread today to read/ask if the Bury line was falling due for maintenance. I had a trip along it yesterday and noted several speed restrictions and some rough riding despite the driver not getting anywhere up to 50mph.

 

[Mothball]

As for the speed restrictions, I stumbled across this while looking for something else just after reading this thread.
Under the Speed restrictions attatchment, it answers for the causes and some repair plans,

Temporary Speed Restrictions on Metrolink Network - a Freedom of Information request to Transport for Greater Manchester

Please provide all Temporary Speed Restriction (TSR) points on the Metrolink network from Jan 1st 2023 to present (Sep 2023). The list should include; location of restriction, start date of restriction, reason for restriction, speed restriction in the area in MPH and planned end date of...

www.whatdotheyknow.com

 

[WatcherZero]

Pyramid Park is outlined for housing development and has recently been in the press to this end.

So far theyve sold off a 1 acre plot to developers to raise money called the Townfield plot, its a small extension of Townfields Close up to the Market Street Bridge. But they have indeed zoned the wider Pyramid Park for housing which could be integrated with a station.

 

[Gostav]

I found an old Metrolink plan in an old book Metro Maps of the World, published in 2003.
In the plan the Manchester Airport stop should be a through platform to make a interesting loop route, and there are show the extension planned to Stockport.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

To be fair, quite a lot of what was proposed has now been built and opened since then, although there's still not yet a Buckley Wells tram stop (between Radcliffe and Bury) and some of the stations that have opened, have names other than as shown in the 2003 era schematic diagram.

 

[edwin_m]

I found an old Metrolink plan in an old book Metro Maps of the World, published in 2003.
In the plan the Manchester Airport stop should be a through platform to make a interesting loop route, and there are show the extension planned to Stockport.

The western part of the loop via Wythenshawe hospital would have shortened the route to the airport, but never got funding. I think they still have the powers to build it, and had intended to do so in slightly modified form to serve the HS2 station which now isn't going to be just west of the airport. The proposed extension to the other airport terminal uses part of the route.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To be fair, quite a lot of what was proposed has now been built and opened since then, although there's still not yet a Buckley Wells tram stop (between Radcliffe and Bury) and some of the stations that have opened, have names other than as shown in the 2003 era schematic diagram.

Is it the case that many of the local residents at the time when it was first being considered many years ago, were against the idea of a tram stop in that area?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is it the case that many of the local residents at the time when it was first being considered many years ago, were against the idea of a tram stop in that area?

You are probably right. Think some of the locals were up in arms about the potential of disruption, noise, traffic/parking problems, lower property values and crime, etc., that Buckley Wells residents would (supposedly) suddenly be subjected to. That was 15-20 years ago now, and unless mistaken, not much has happened with the scheme since then.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah residents were against it as they thought a P&R stop into Bury (was going to be zoned for cheap travel to Bury to encourage people to park out of town) would bring extra traffic to their local roads, was off the radar for many years but the proposal resurfaced again a couple of years ago now slightly further south at Elton Reservoir.

 

[ic31420]

Yeah residents were against it as they thought a P&R stop into Bury (was going to be zoned for cheap travel to Bury to encourage people to park out of town) would bring extra traffic to their local roads, was off the radar for many years but the proposal resurfaced again a couple of years ago now slightly further south at Elton Reservoir.

That's my understanding it's all tied in to the releasing the land for development and re-development.

Unfortunately it's pretty well mired in politics now and is vehemently opposed by some local groups.

I seem to recall Peel putting an exhibition on earlier in the year.

 

[Greybeard33]

From another thread:

Plus for people who work at MCUK and live in Wigan (such as my wife) this service [Northern Wigan North Western to Victoria via Eccles] is invaluable, providing a non stop fast service to Eccles, or at least it used to be invaluable until they messed around with the Metrolink timetables in September resulting in no daytime service to MCUK from Eccles. All trams now skip that tram stop, meaning she'd have to walk from Broadway, thus destroying much of the time advantage these "express" workings provide. A classic example of non-joined up thinking between NR and TfGM imho.

Daytime Eccles trams were only calling at MCUK until September because the additional Etihad - MCUK daytime service was temporarily withdrawn during and following Covid. The pre-pandemic service pattern has now been restored.

The Broadway and MCUK stops are only 400m apart - about 5 minutes walk. Passengers with reduced mobility can alternatively change to a MCUK service at Harbour City to avoid the walk, although this is likely to take longer.

However, this complaint does show that temporary timetable changes can have unintended consequences, when commuters assume they are permanent and come to rely on them.

 

[Jamesrob637]

42A still terminates at the Bulls Head stop in Reddish.

Which hasn't been a pub in over a decade!