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Manchester & North West Transformation Programme

507020

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The power used by the railway is a tiny fraction of national demand. (I think it's about 1%?) If the National Grid is that short of capacity, then keeping the railway going is the least of their worries.

But looking to the South-West of Manchester as a whole, there is going to be a huge increase in railway electric loads in the next decade or so, with HS2, NPR and CLC all (seemingly) committed to go ahead. So they are going to have to commission one or more major feeder stations in the area. I trust the various development teams are talking to each other!

Luckily there are three 400kV lines (6 circuits) connected to Carrington and Daines sub-stations, so there should be plenty of local grid capacity to tap into. (For details see https://openinframap.org/#13.58/53.42902/-2.38644)
If single phase railway substations were to be replaced with true 3 phase ones, that could easily increase to 3% of national demand, which is quite a significant increase.

Regional demand south west of Manchester, going from only the Diesel CLC line to an electrified CLC line, HS2 and NPR, will likely represent an even larger increase than that, but since these are all long term projects, they must be making adequate provisions to procure traction electricity when the time comes.
 
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WatcherZero

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Does anyone have a summary or a link that details all the infrastructure proposals that are coming under the Manchester Recovery Taskforce, that they could share please?

Some more precise details from the Manchester Recovery Taskforce now.

Configuration State 1: Present network as it stands today with the Salford platform levelling work completed.
Configuration State 2: Third platform Salford Crescent, Turnback sidings east of Victoria, Turnback sidings near Salford Central, Station access/flow improvements at Manchester Victoria.
Configuration State 3: Whole route upgrade of the CLC line, Platform extensions at Manchester Airport, complete remodeling of Oxford Road, extra platform capacity at Manchester Piccadilly.
Configuration State 4: Under development but provisionally includes ETCS on WCML North, electrification Manchester Victoria to Rochdale, Resignalling Stockport, ETCS on Castlefield Corridor, Ordsall Lane junction grade separation, introduction of HS2 phase 2A services from Crewe.
Configuration State 5: HS2 2B and NPR completed

Configuration state 2 has had its business case approved by the Dft and the Dft is now trying to get Treasury signoff.
Configuration state 3 is in business case development which will complete in early 2024
Configuration state 4 is in early development.

Each scheme within a configuration state requires its own business case due to cost involved, they arent doing whole configuration state business cases, NR has been dragging its heels on the CLC business case and Transport for the North has offered to provide money to accelerate the development work. CLC Whole Route upgrade replaces earlier plans for turnback sidings either side of Birchwood and is cheaper/more cost effective.



 

geoffk

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Some more precise details from the Manchester Recovery Taskforce now.

Configuration State 1: Present network as it stands today with the Salford platform levelling work completed.
Configuration State 2: Third platform Salford Crescent, Turnback sidings east of Victoria, Turnback sidings near Salford Central, Station access/flow improvements at Manchester Victoria.
Configuration State 3: Whole route upgrade of the CLC line, Platform extensions at Manchester Airport, complete remodeling of Oxford Road, extra platform capacity at Manchester Piccadilly.
Configuration State 4: Under development but provisionally includes ETCS on WCML North, electrification Manchester Victoria to Rochdale, Resignalling Stockport, ETCS on Castlefield Corridor, Ordsall Lane junction grade separation, introduction of HS2 phase 2A services from Crewe.
Two years since I moved away from the Manchester area. Ordsall Lane grade separation must be the most worthwhile in terms of removing conflicting movements but doesn't the existence of road bridges under and over require some quite steep gradients? A shame that platforms 3/4 at Salford Central are now binned, although not sure what would stop there. Wasn't that the whole point of slewing the Chat Moss tracks to pass between the old platform remains? But the train companies don't seem to want them.
 

jonesy3001

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What do they mean by whole route upgrade on the CLC?
Will the extra platforms at Piccadilly be 15 and 16 which have been proposed for years but nothing has happened.
 

cslusarc

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What do they mean by whole route upgrade on the CLC?
I think this means electrification and new signalling. Once electrification comes a new service pattern will be needed as 2 diesel tph under the wires would be less than optimal
 

AGH

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I would assume that the development of the CLC route would be affected by NPR / HS3 through Bank Quay LL if it ever happens. Whilst electrifying it would be preferable it becomes just a commuting backwater if NPR happens.
 

Greybeard33

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What do they mean by whole route upgrade on the CLC?
Will the extra platforms at Piccadilly be 15 and 16 which have been proposed for years but nothing has happened.
Regarding the CLC and Piccadilly, this is the actual wording of the relevant parts of TfN's MTF paper, linked by @WatcherZero in #392 (my bolding):
Configuration state 3:
This is focused on central Manchester and East – West services. Options are being developed at pace and are expected to include the Cheshire Lines Committee (CLC) route upgrade, platform extensions at Manchester Airport to accommodate longer trains and a complete remodel of the station buildings, platform lengthening and track layout at Manchester Oxford Road and increased platform capacity likely to be at Manchester Piccadilly. The Manchester Task Force is supporting delivery of the outline business cases for each of these schemes across this year and in to early 2024, and associated activities to progress from design to delivery.
The Manchester Task Force will be seeking to progress design development of configuration state 3, with a view to securing further funding for delivery of these enhancements. This will be done in parallel with the delivery of configuration state 2 enhancements, providing a continuous flow of upgrades.
An industry workshop was held on 1 February 2023 bringing together representatives from Department for Transport, Network Rail, TransPennine Express, Northern, Transport for the North and Transport for Greater Manchester to review progress and discuss next steps on the development and delivery of the Manchester Programme. This workshop focused on three distinct areas:
• Castlefield Corridor;
• Manchester Piccadilly terminal and the route to Stockport; and
• Associated enhancements (e.g. ETCS).
The workshop identified several actions, including the need for emerging plans around Manchester Oxford Road to be presented to Manchester Task Force, with consideration of an access strategy for any proposed works which will need to be cognisant of the impact on customers due to other access requirements in the region resulting from other planned infrastructure enhancements and engineering works.
The CLC whole route upgrade is being developed as a proposal in place of earlier options which only explored turnbacks either side of Birchwood and is believed to be more cost effective and deliver greater benefits.
A stakeholder session was held in 2022 to inform the development of the CLC route upgrade proposal. Since then, progress has slowed. Transport for the North is working with the Manchester Task Force and Department for Transport to understand the current position and where support could be provided to move development forward, e.g. contributing to the development of the Outline Business Case. Requests have also been made to Network Rail for a further stakeholder session to be convened.
I think this is all too vague to infer details of the interventions. Indeed, since the options are still being developed the details might not yet be finalised.

Increased platform capacity does not necessarily mean extra platforms (it might be just reduced reoccupation times) and the paper only says it is "likely" to be at Piccadilly.

The related recommendation in the paper is:
Rail North Committee is recommended to:
...
3. Note the progress with the development of infrastructure upgrades at Manchester Oxford Road and Manchester Airport in Configuration State 3.
No mention here of Piccadilly or the CLC.
 

td97

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DfT press release today that the 3rd platform work at Salford Crescent is now funded, along with "track improvements across north Manchester", and infrastructure improvements at Oxford Rd & Manchester Airport continue to be developed.
 

8A Rail

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Just looking were the 'North' comes into this package? :lol: Also ain't the work at Salford Crescent already commenced some months ago? To be honest, not for the first time, sounds like to me the usual re-package / spin by the Government again!
 

jonnyfan

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This looks to be the funding and delivery confirmed for Manchester Recovery Taskforce tranche 2. Which includes the additional platform at Salford Crescent, turnback sidings east of Victoria and at Salford Central, track alterations east of Victoria and increased passenger flow capacity at Victoria.
Good news to see Transport for North's plans coming into fruition. Next step CLC upgrade, Oxford Road re-model and Airport platform extensions.
 

Greybeard33

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Also buried in the press release is the not so good news that Piccadilly Platforms 15 & 16 have finally been formally binned, with Network Rail withdrawing the 2015 TWAO application for the Northern Hub Piccadilly and Oxford Road capacity enhancement scheme.
In order to deliver for passengers quickly while providing value for money for taxpayers, Network Rail has today withdrawn a previous planning application for rail infrastructure work in the city.

We have asked the task force to consider alternative options to better serve passengers and support the £26 million already injected to improve services at Manchester Piccadilly, Airport and Oxford Road stations.
Network Rail’s Tim Shoveller said:
"We also have ambitious plans for the future of Manchester Oxford Road. We’re removing our previous planning application so we can move forward with a new approach, something we’ll be consulting residents and businesses on later in the year."
 

cle

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And Salford Central is still scuppered too, other than the current surfacing works?

Crescent - how will the third platform be used?
 

Bletchleyite

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Where is the third platform to go? I guess which side it is will dictate its purpose.

If it's one platform for Vic and over the bridge for Picc, then that's massively negative in terms of interchange quality, though I suppose you can do same-platform at Bolton.
 

cle

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Maybe it's a peak-flow/bi-directional approach which is more flexible? Or northbound / Picc / Vic... - or split on northbound routes?
 

The Planner

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Crescent - how will the third platform be used?
Allows parallel arrivals from Bolton and Wigan, but not departures. It will be accessible from the Manchester direction as a turn back, but not onwards.
 

Greybeard33

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Allows parallel arrivals from Bolton and Wigan, but not departures. It will be accessible from the Manchester direction as a turn back, but not onwards.
Currently all Atherton line services go to Salford Central and all services to the Windsor Link come from Bolton, so southbound parallel arrivals would have to converge or cross each other's paths at Windsor Bridge South Junction unless there is a radical recast of service routings.

I suspect it will end up with the new Up Bolton (eastern) platform and the Up and Down Bolton (middle) platform each having departures to both Victoria and Oxford Road.
 

Cheshire Scot

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Where is the third platform to go? I guess which side it is will dictate its purpose.
As far as I understand from an earlier stage of development it would go on the existing through road, so probably only for trains from the Bolton line, but to either Vic or Picc.

It should help ease delays and congestion but may not have much of an impact on 'crossing' moves.

Allows parallel arrivals from Bolton and Wigan, but not departures. It will be accessible from the Manchester direction as a turn back, but not onwards.

I suspect it will end up with the new Up Bolton (eastern) platform and the Up and Down Bolton (middle) platform each having departures to both Victoria and Oxford Road.
and increased potential for northbound trains to use the middle platform.
 

The Planner

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and increased potential for northbound trains to use the middle platform.
Yes, but not very much. Everything will still have to go through the same set of points at the south of the station at Windsor Bridge South. There is no new track work going in, just a platform.
 

Greybeard33

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Yes, but not very much. Everything will still have to go through the same set of points at the south of the station at Windsor Bridge South. There is no new track work going in, just a platform.
So passengers from Atherton/Walkden who want Oxford Road/Piccadilly will likely have to cross the bridge from Platform 1 to the new platform (Platform 0?) instead of the same platform change at present.

"You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...."
 

Bletchleyite

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So passengers from Atherton/Walkden who want Oxford Road/Piccadilly will likely have to cross the bridge from Platform 1 to the new platform (Platform 0?) instead of the same platform change at present.

"You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...."

Yet another passenger-unfriendly, negative half-job change.

Two islands paired by direction (or rebuild to one island towards Manchester and one side platform away from it), or not at all.
 

td97

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So passengers from Atherton/Walkden who want Oxford Road/Piccadilly will likely have to cross the bridge from Platform 1 to the new platform (Platform 0?) instead of the same platform change at present.

"You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...."
I would expect that services from Bolton to Victoria would be signalled onto the Up Bolton platform (P0?) whilst Bolton to Castlefield is signalled onto P1 to retain connectivity with the Atherton branch.
Salford Central provides same-platform connections for those from Atherton stations requiring the stations between Victoria and Rochdale.
It seems that the main benefit of P0 is Up services from the Bolton branch not backing up at MP510 and MP512 during disruption (or sometimes, ordinary running) and alleviating the low headway between services.
 

Halish Railway

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It seems that the main benefit of P0 is Up services from the Bolton branch not backing up at MP510 and MP512 during disruption (or sometimes, ordinary running) and alleviating the low headway between services.
I’m yet to go on an on-time train between Bolton and Salford Crescent that hasn’t waited outside of Salford Crescent for about three minutes. I’d imagine that there would be a desire to keep a few minutes slack in the timetable for trains coming from Atherton and Bolton to ensure that they make their way through the Castlefield corridor and Manchester Victoria on-time.
 

The Planner

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So passengers from Atherton/Walkden who want Oxford Road/Piccadilly will likely have to cross the bridge from Platform 1 to the new platform (Platform 0?) instead of the same platform change at present.

"You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...."
Depends on the timetable, but that is potentially how it could be. It is likely more a bolt hole for any TRU trains that need to hide somewhere once they have come from the east.
 

td97

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I’m yet to go on an on-time train between Bolton and Salford Crescent that hasn’t waited outside of Salford Crescent for about three minutes. I’d imagine that there would be a desire to keep a few minutes slack in the timetable for trains coming from Atherton and Bolton to ensure that they make their way through the Castlefield corridor and Manchester Victoria on-time.
In my experience, the Blackpool to Manchester Airport only gets a clear route (and on time arrival) into Salford Crescent if the preceding Blackburn/Clitheroe to Rochdale service has been cancelled, or is sufficiently late to have been regulated behind the Airport service at Bolton.
 

Halish Railway

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It’s a bit of a shame that the additional platform couldn’t be completed in time for the timetable recast required for the introduction of the half-hourly Stalybridge to Wigan Northwestern electric services. I’d assume the creation of this service and alterations to the Southport services would require one or two more paths through Salford Crescent depending on what is done with the Southport services.

One other thing - Is Golborne definitely going to open in ~2025? If so I’d imagine that the recast required for the Stalybridge to Wigan electric services would have a provision for an hourly Manchester to Wigan via Golborne service.
 

javelin

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One other thing - Is Golborne definitely going to open in ~2025? If so I’d imagine that the recast required for the Stalybridge to Wigan electric services would have a provision for an hourly Manchester to Wigan via Golborne service.

At the moment it is; construction in 2025, opening in 2026.
 

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