Hopefully this would make crew changes there impossible?SPEED option taken - P3 will be the turn back with 2 through platforms. A typo in my earlier post - P2 will be extended through the closure of P1.
Hopefully this would make crew changes there impossible?SPEED option taken - P3 will be the turn back with 2 through platforms. A typo in my earlier post - P2 will be extended through the closure of P1.
Everywhere else change at Preston?No, two Blackpools. Keep it simple, keep it consistent.
I would very much like to be able to do that from Southport…Everywhere else change at Preston?
Lots of Japanese tourists visiting , valuable income stream, won't go down well with the Tourist Industry knocking direct services on the head.The Cumbria services are a political necessity - cutting off a world heritage site from it's nearest airport would not be good. It's also important to remember that they form part of 4tph to Preston from the Airport - which is a perfectly reasonable proposition.
Everywhere else change at Preston?
And there is still an hourly service to Leeds via Bradford starting from Victoria in the December 2022 timetable. Departure of this service from P1/2 conflicts with all other moves into or out of Victoria on the east side. And in the medium term the 111m length of P1 will not allow sufficient capacity on this route (P2 is only 96m).According to RTT, the xx28 arrivals from Leeds (via Halifax) and xx58 return departures are booked to use P1 at Victoria, and indeed I witnessed the 1128 arrival doing so a couple of weeks back.
That's amazing news, though why do they need a new design when there's the one in the TWAO?Referring to P15/16
I'd guess because scope has changed?That's amazing news, though why do they need a new design when there's the one in the TWAO?
Ok, thanks.SPEED option taken - P3 will be the turn back with 2 through platforms. A typo in my earlier post - P2 will be extended through the closure of P1.
Value engineering, updating to more recent surveys, updated operational requirements, implementing new technologies/products developed since previous design stage etc.That's amazing news, though why do they need a new design when there's the one in the TWAO?
Why do you think people want to go to Piccadilly over Victoria? Piccadilly is situ in the south east cor of the city for a start, which is a bit of a distance from many popular areas. A 6-car 331 from Blackpool will be just as popular from Victoria as it will be from Piccadilly.Piccadilly/Oxford Rd services from Bolton to Manchester must be loaded 2-3x as much as the Victoria services. It's where most people want to go.
Because more services go to and terminate at Piccadilly than Victoria? Also, Piccadilly is the London station.Why do you think people want to go to Piccadilly over Victoria? Piccadilly is situ in the south east cor of the city for a start, which is a bit of a distance from many popular areas. A 6-car 331 from Blackpool will be just as popular from Victoria as it will be from Piccadilly.
Me too. Reinstate the curves!I would very much like to be able to do that from Southport…
Because more services go to and terminate at Piccadilly than Victoria? Also, Piccadilly is the London station.
Please no - surely to goodness it does not need to go right back to square one.Will P15-16 need to restart the whole TWAO process from the beginning?
The Star & Garter pub was to be protected from the expanded station, therefore if the pub is ok, then the plans across the road at Mayfield will be fine too.When the development plans for the land area in the Mayfield station area were published, were any Piccadilly station though-line viaduct widenings allowed-for?
That’s a chicken & egg situation. Plus if you’re coming from Preston, why would you need to connect at Piccadilly for London?
Why does every service from Barrow and Windermere have to go to Manchester?
Is that really where everyone wants to go or are we just assuming it is?
Seems to me these services are forcing people to go to Manchester whether they like it or not.
And on top of which when there's issues en route the whole timetable of those lines goes pear shaped, sometimes for hours. The Windermere Branch was far more reliable when it was a self contained shuttle.
There's barely a day goes by when something isn't cancelled it's not great is it.
One might well ask the question in reverse....why does every service start from Manchester? Windermere is a major tourist destination of note that many Manchester area people have visited for years. It was even better in the days when TPE ran there with the class 185 units as first-class accommodation was available to be booked with seat reservations that my wife and I always used when travelling from Manchester Airport station. The line northwards from Lancaster on the Barrow-in-Furness line calls at interesting places such as Grange-over-Sands and Ulverston.Why does every service from Barrow and Windermere have to go to Manchester? Is that really where everyone wants to go or are we just assuming it is? Seems to me these services are forcing people to go to Manchester whether they like it or not.
One might well ask the question in reverse....why does every service start from Manchester? Windermere is a major tourist destination of note that many Manchester area people have visited for years. It was even better in the days when TPE ran there with the class 185 units as first-class accommodation was available to be booked with seat reservations that my wife and I always used when travelling from Manchester Airport station. The line northwards from Lancaster on the Barrow-in-Furness line calls at interesting places such as Grange-over-Sands and Ulverston.
I’d say there is reason for there being services from the Bolton corridor to Piccadilly, but I‘d argue the emphasis of the line should be heading to Victoria. The Windsor Link worked for a period where the railway was in decline and Piccadilly was to be the focus of the rail network, but we are not in that world anymore. Furthermore, central Manchester is far bigger than just where you can walk to/from Piccadilly.It's very often cheaper on Advances due to offering three times the capacity (if you don't count the very slow service via Brum), while on a walk-up you get to board at the start so get a better choice of seats. Lots of people do it.
Also don't forget that there are lots of stations between Preston and Manchester where people might also want to go to London without going north first.
But nobody is seriously proposing all services from that corridor going to Vic, are they, i.e. mothballing the Windsor Link?
Edit: seems you are, and it's nuts.
It was more reliable when TPE operated the service with 185s. It seems to have gone somewhat downhill since.
I grew up in Cumbria and barely ever remember cancellations or problems aside from the occasional unit breakdown when the Windermere Branch service was self contained.
Entirely dependent on what has changed. If (for example) it is something that will affect third parties differently, then DfT could reasonably (from their perspective...) ask that the consultations are done again. TWAOs are complex beasts at the best of times, so the devil is in the detail...Please no - surely to goodness it does not need to go right back to square one.
I understood there were plans for 3 through platforms with the bay relocated to the island between current P2 & P3. Having more than 2 through platforms is invaluable operationally for late-running crew changes, terminating short of destination, and allowing regulation of late running services.
I hope that the reduction in through platforms at Oxford Road will not be implemented before Piccadilly P15/16 are available to provide a replacement location for service regulation and crew changes.SPEED option taken - P3 will be the turn back with 2 through platforms. A typo in my earlier post - P2 will be extended through the closure of P1.
I don't think there is enough space for it to be of a useful length without buffers. That's the reason for the mess that Oxford Road is now; removing and realigning platforms won't substantively help with that.Is 3 to be a turnback only, i.e. buffer stops at the Picc end? If it remained signallable as a reversible through platform, it could at least be used for emergency overtakes if there isn't a terminating service there (the terminating service could of course be cancelled and sent off elsewhere if needs be).