May 17 timetable changes

[mikestone1952]

I somewhat agree. However, according to National Rail Enquiries (app), the 1858 arrives Piccadilly platform 14 and the 1900 uses 13B.

At Oxford Road the 1858 uses platform 2 and the 1900 platform 1.

The 350 will out accelerate the 185 anyway so the timings at Slade Lane at least are a moot point. Regarding ardwick junction the services can approach Piccadilly using the fast and slow lines at the same time.

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They are three minutes apart at Slade Lane/Ardwick now and both use 14 in RTT

 

[Greybeard33]

;
They are three minutes apart at Slade Lane/Ardwick now and both use 14 in RTT

And now 3 minutes apart in Oxford Road Platform 2, which seems workable. These timings are clearly a work in progress, but it does now seem that the Northern service really is going to carry on after the TPE one starts.

This is reminiscent of bus wars tactics, where the predatory operator times its new service to run just ahead of the incumbent's. TPE will be able to poach most of the passengers going to Manchester and Preston, leaving Northern with just those going to Bolton, Horwich Parkway and Chorley. And TPE will still pocket the (no doubt lucrative) fee for sub-leasing the 185 to Northern so that it can cart fresh air to Preston and back!

 

[Ianno87]

And now 3 minutes apart in Oxford Road Platform 2, which seems workable. These timings are clearly a work in progress, but it does now seem that the Northern service really is going to carry on after the TPE one starts.

This is reminiscent of bus wars tactics, where the predatory operator times its new service to run just ahead of the incumbent's. TPE will be able to poach most of the passengers going to Manchester and Preston, leaving Northern with just those going to Bolton, Horwich Parkway and Chorley. And TPE will still pocket the (no doubt lucrative) fee for sub-leasing the 185 to Northern so that it can cart fresh air to Preston and back!

Uhhh...that's the point!

If the Northern ran first, all the good folk of Preston would just pile on the Northern service as it turns up first at Picc/Oxford Rd, crowding it whilst leaving the TPE behind relatively empty. If anything, running the TPE second through Piccadilly might give it even more revenue through overtaking the Northern service along the way (making the Northern "useless" for the purpose of getting to Preston from a theoretical perspective).

I highly doubt it's a conspiracy theory to grab revenue - one single train after the evening peak will make little if any difference in the grand scheme of things anyway.

 

[rg177]

I get the feeling that some may stick with the Northern service if the TPE ends up wedged with passengers for points further north.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Blindtraveler]

Which is totally possible as anyone who has experienced the 18:00 TPE will tell you

 

[rg177]

Which is totally possible as anyone who has experienced the 18:00 TPE will tell you

I think the only quiet TPE off Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow I've had is one at about 9am on a Saturday on January when the working had only recently turned over to 350s!

 

[Greybeard33]

Uhhh...that's the point!

If the Northern ran first, all the good folk of Preston would just pile on the Northern service as it turns up first at Picc/Oxford Rd, crowding it whilst leaving the TPE behind relatively empty. If anything, running the TPE second through Piccadilly might give it even more revenue through overtaking the Northern service along the way (making the Northern "useless" for the purpose of getting to Preston from a theoretical perspective).

I highly doubt it's a conspiracy theory to grab revenue - one single train after the evening peak will make little if any difference in the grand scheme of things anyway.

Does the Northern service get overcrowded at the moment? 1920 is well after the Manchester evening peak.

On the latest timings, the TPE will get to Preston only 4 minutes ahead of the Northern, after leaving Oxford Road 4 minutes ahead.

In the standard hour, the xx00 slot from the Airport is for the TPE Scottish services, with the Northern Preston/Blackpool services on the half hour. I would have thought that the main purpose of the extra Northern service at 1900 is to avoid an hour's gap in services to Preston, in the absence of a TPE currently. That is why I am surprised that the Northern is to continue after the TT change.

 

[DarloRich]

Not sure. What I do know is that the 0700 used to be the 0711 (LBZ-WFJ-EUS) which was an absolutely perfectly timed train for commuting to much of zone 1 particularly for those who wanted the City but not to have to cram onto the Northern Line. It moved back to 0700 but is still very popular.

But then other than say Bow Brickhill and Fenny I'd have thought most people wanting the City would go via Bedford and Thameslink, I would.

I am sure the changes make getting to London easier. My worry is that this chnage drives away custom for MK which, i think, is now the key market for the line. As you say there are earlier connections from Bedford and many of the villages face that way for London

 

[BMIFlyer]

Which is totally possible as anyone who has experienced the 18:00 TPE will tell you

The main issue with that train is the Wigan commuters. Should insist they all get the Wallgate service.

TPE made sense with the 17:00 ex Man Air missing the stop at Wigan altogether.

 

[BMIFlyer]

I would have thought that the main purpose of the extra Northern service at 1900 is to avoid an hour's gap in services to Preston, in the absence of a TPE currently. That is why I am surprised that the Northern is to continue after the TT change.

Don't forget there would be a gap along the Bolton - Chorley corridor if this service ceased.

 

[Greybeard33]

Don't forget there would be a gap along the Bolton - Chorley corridor if this service ceased.

As far as Airport/Piccadilly/Oxford Road to Bolton itself is concerned, it would not be much of a gap, because the 1906 Airport to Southport service calls there only 9 minutes later. From Bolton, Horwich Parkway and Chorley to Preston, there would be a 33 minute gap between the 1829 Airport to Blackpool North and the 1918 Victoria to Blackpool North - only 4 minutes longer than the planned gap between the former service and the 1901 Airport to Preston.

Worst affected would be passengers from Airport/Picc/Oxford Road to Horwich or Chorley, who would have an hour between direct services, as in subsequent evening hours.

 

[berneyarms]

CrossCountry once again are first out of the starting blocks with the new summer timetable pdfs now available on their website.

 

[47271]

I use the 1840 Glasgow-Euston a lot, and change at Wigan, sometimes for Manchester, and sometimes for Liverpool.

Given the time of night, and the fact that I can be fed and watered in an almost empty and keenly priced Virgin First Class on this service, I can't see me wanting to shift to a slower, less appealing TPE option at 1847, even if it means I don't have to change. Other than a few later homeward bound commuters to Lockerbie, I think it's going to be a very quiet train indeed.

 

[kieron]

I think you have looked at a week when the Mossend route is blocked. The 04.22 WTT schedule is still that way.

Oops, yes. There are only buses through Holytown that evening.

 

[Starmill]

It looks like Kennishead, Priesthill & Darnley and Nitshill stations will gain a Sunday service.

Finally! It is madness to have loads of trains running through all day, and no calls at any of them.

Does that mean Carstairs will be the last station in Scotland with no Sunday service? I suppose we can exclude seasonal services such as Dunrobin Castle.

 

[Starmill]

I use the 1840 Glasgow-Euston a lot, and change at Wigan, sometimes for Manchester, and sometimes for Liverpool.

Given the time of night, and the fact that I can be fed and watered in an almost empty and keenly priced Virgin First Class on this service, I can't see me wanting to shift to a slower, less appealing TPE option at 1847, even if it means I don't have to change. Other than a few later homeward bound commuters to Lockerbie, I think it's going to be a very quiet train indeed.

There might be a touch more Carlisle to Penrith traffic. There will probably be evening Wigan to Manchester traffic, particularly on Friday night. But otherwise you're right. Ideally it needed to leave at around 1905 at the earliest. It's there to plug the massive gap before the 2010.

 

[adrock1976]

Finally! It is madness to have loads of trains running through all day, and no calls at any of them.

Does that mean Carstairs will be the last station in Scotland with no Sunday service? I suppose we can exclude seasonal services such as Dunrobin Castle.

From memory, and as I have not had the chance to look at the May timetables across Scotland, I believe that as well as Carstairs, Coatbridge Central, Briech, Springfield, Invergowrie, Balmossie, Monifieth, Barry Links, and Golf Street have no Sunday service.

I would like to mention that apart from Coatbridge Central, the other stations I have listed above see a very limited service on Mondays to Saturdays.

 

[Starmill]

I think we can definitely ignore Breich, Golf Street and Barry Links, which are good for nothing but closure. I would have thought that Monifieth, Balmossie and Invergowrie would be good candidates for more services generally. I suppose Springfield sits somewhere between the two.

The absence of Cumberland to Motherwell services on Sunday is almost as surprising as the absence of a local Barrhead service is. And the absence of a Paisley Canal, Newcraighall or Springburn - Bellgrove - until they were added.

 

[adrock1976]

I think we can definitely ignore Breich, Golf Street and Barry Links, which are good for nothing but closure. I would have thought that Monifieth, Balmossie and Invergowrie would be good candidates for more services generally. I suppose Springfield sits somewhere between the two.

The absence of Cumberland to Motherwell services on Sunday is almost as surprising as the absence of a local Barrhead service is. And the absence of a Paisley Canal, Newcraighall or Springburn - Bellgrove - until they were added.

In regards to your second paragraph, the only Sunday services were in December until recent times. The common section of route between Dalmuir and Airdrie had its frequency doubled during shopping hours on those Sundays in December, but does not seem to happen nowadays.

 

[mikestone1952]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-39436502
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130 more seats from Barry to Cardiff Central (all stations except Grangetown) at 08:13 BST

104 extra seats from Treherbert to Cardiff (all stations) at 06:47

208 extra seats from Radyr to Cardiff via Llandaff at 07:50

130 extra seats on the 06:32 Rhymney to Cardiff service

130 extra seats on the 06:09 Rhymney to Cardiff service

An additional 104 seats on the 17:26 Merthyr service

New service - 07:52 Cardiff Central to Barry

New service - 08:13 Barry to Cardiff Central

New service - 07:57 Cardiff Central to Radyr via the City Line

New service - 08:13 Radyr-Cardiff Central via Llandaff

Arriva Trains Wales said the additional trains were "subject to railway approval processes" but the announcement is "one of the most significant improvements to valleys commuters in a decade".

It said to implement the changes, the operator "needed to remove one midday Penarth service and one midday Barry service".

The firm has a zero growth contract - which means it has the same number of trains it had when it began operations in 2003.
Media captionIs there light at the end of the tunnel for Cardiff commuters?

It said the additions "would not have been possible" without Network Rail's recent £300m signalling upgrade works and new platform eight at Cardiff Central.

"This is one of the most significant improvements to valleys commuters in a decade, since the opening of the Ebbw Vale line," said Arriva Trains Wales customer services director, Lynne Milligan.

"With only a limited number of trains in our fleet and the lack of availability in the UK we have had to work hard to get the most from what we've got."

Network Rail Wales said "more trains are travelling through Cardiff than ever before".

not sure where these extra seats are coming from - possibly 150 work at Crewe might be finished releasing one set?
;
Also noted revised services to/from Fishguard, tying in with altered boat times in RTT. Stena website doesn't reflect this though, and w/c 13th June the night boat train is showing as STP, although generally it appears to be withdrawn west of Carmarthen.

 

[PHILIPE]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-39436502
;
130 more seats from Barry to Cardiff Central (all stations except Grangetown) at 08:13 BST

104 extra seats from Treherbert to Cardiff (all stations) at 06:47

208 extra seats from Radyr to Cardiff via Llandaff at 07:50

130 extra seats on the 06:32 Rhymney to Cardiff service

130 extra seats on the 06:09 Rhymney to Cardiff service

An additional 104 seats on the 17:26 Merthyr service

New service - 07:52 Cardiff Central to Barry

New service - 08:13 Barry to Cardiff Central

New service - 07:57 Cardiff Central to Radyr via the City Line

New service - 08:13 Radyr-Cardiff Central via Llandaff

Arriva Trains Wales said the additional trains were "subject to railway approval processes" but the announcement is "one of the most significant improvements to valleys commuters in a decade".

It said to implement the changes, the operator "needed to remove one midday Penarth service and one midday Barry service".

The firm has a zero growth contract - which means it has the same number of trains it had when it began operations in 2003.
Media captionIs there light at the end of the tunnel for Cardiff commuters?

It said the additions "would not have been possible" without Network Rail's recent £300m signalling upgrade works and new platform eight at Cardiff Central.

"This is one of the most significant improvements to valleys commuters in a decade, since the opening of the Ebbw Vale line," said Arriva Trains Wales customer services director, Lynne Milligan.

"With only a limited number of trains in our fleet and the lack of availability in the UK we have had to work hard to get the most from what we've got."

Network Rail Wales said "more trains are travelling through Cardiff than ever before".

not sure where these extra seats are coming from - possibly 150 work at Crewe might be finished releasing one set?
;
Also noted revised services to/from Fishguard, tying in with altered boat times in RTT. Stena website doesn't reflect this though, and w/c 13th June the night boat train is showing as STP, although generally it appears to be withdrawn west of Carmarthen.

Much of it already posted here, but not all:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143104

Something has to give so less seats somewhere. Would appear to be 150 exchanged for a Pair of Pacers somewhere but ATW won't say this. There is no 150 to move from Crewe

 

[30907]

Also noted revised services to/from Fishguard, tying in with altered boat times in RTT. Stena website doesn't reflect this though, and w/c 13th June the night boat train is showing as STP, although generally it appears to be withdrawn west of Carmarthen.

Think the STP is because it is starting Llanelli westbound. The changes to the ferries will be the first in many years, and it doesn't entirely surprise me that Stena haven't updated their timetable.

 

[berneyarms]

Yes the Stena Line changes on Rosslare - Fishguard have mixed results:

* Much better rail connections at Rosslare - three out of four ferries
* Reasonble daytime connections at Fishguard for onward travel
* Poor night connection from Fishguard - only to Carmarthen

 

[PHILIPE]

The plan for the Timetable at night is:-

1V48 1530 Manchester Picc to Carmarthen extended Fishguard
2E35 2214 Fishguard Harbour to Carmarthen (no forward connections)
2E52 2345 Swansea to Carmarthen
1B39 0303 Carmarthen to Swansea (Current 0150 Fishguard Harbour path)

There are quite a few Engineering Occupations which would explain the STP working.

 

[berneyarms]

The plan for the Timetable at night is:-

1V48 1530 Manchester Picc to Carmarthen extended Fishguard
2E35 2214 Fishguard Harbour to Carmarthen (no forward connections)
2E52 2345 Swansea to Carmarthen
1B39 0303 Carmarthen to Swansea (Current 0150 Fishguard Harbour path)

There are quite a few Engineering Occupations which would explain the STP working.

Now Philipe - your challenge is to figure out the changes in the links!
What happens to the Class 158s in South Wales?

 

[PHILIPE]

Now Philipe - your challenge is to figure out the changes in the links!
What happens to the Class 158s in South Wales?

Think the only 158 alteration seems to be that the Pembroke Dock to Newport in the morning terminates Swansea and forming 1040 Newport to Fishguard starting Swansea at 1230. There is an additional from Swansea to Newport and returning to Cardiff in the path of the Pembroke Dock, which I suspect, would be 153 cuurently attached to 1110 Swansea to Cardiff

 

[Techniquest]

Oh my I'm glad I read the last few posts on this thread, the plan for June's ALR is now about to completely re-drawn! No more overnight Fishguard Harbour train is disappointing, the end of an era. It will live on forever in memories though

 

[berneyarms]

Think the only 158 alteration seems to be that the Pembroke Dock to Newport in the morning terminates Swansea and forming 1040 Newport to Fishguard starting Swansea at 1230. There is an additional from Swansea to Newport and returning to Cardiff in the path of the Pembroke Dock, which I suspect, would be 153 cuurently attached to 1110 Swansea to Cardiff

Yes I concur!
The Sunday schedule in RTT is still a bit of a mess.

But for those interested, the revised Stena schedule is as follows with rail connections:

Depart Rosslare 08:00 Arrive Fishguard 11:15
Rail connection to Cardiff (Mon-Sat) via Swansea avoiding line
Rail connection on Sunday tbc
No rail connection at Rosslare

Depart Fishguard 13:10 Arrive Rosslare 16:25
Rail connection from Swansea (Mon-Sat) avoiding Carmarthen
Rail connection from Carmarthen (Sun) (Connection from Cardiff)
Rail connection to Dublin Connolly (Mon-Sun)

Depart Rosslare 18:10 Arrive Fishguard 21:25
Rail connection to Carmarthen only (Mon-Sun); No onward connections
Rail connection from Dublin Connolly (Mon-Sun)

Depart Fishguard 23:45 Arrive Rosslare 04:00
Rail connection from Manchester Piccadilly (Mon-Sat)
Rail connection from Swansea (Sun)
Rail connection to Dublin Connolly (Mon-Fri mornings)

 

[PHILIPE]

Yes I concur!
The Sunday schedule in RTT is still a bit of a mess.

But for those interested, the revised Stena schedule is as follows with rail connections:

Depart Rosslare 08:00 Arrive Fishguard 11:15
Rail connection to Cardiff (Mon-Sat) via Swansea avoiding line
Rail connection on Sunday tbc
No rail connection at Rosslare

Depart Fishguard 13:10 Arrive Rosslare 16:25
Rail connection from Swansea (Mon-Sat) avoiding Carmarthen
Rail connection from Carmarthen (Sun) (Connection from Cardiff)
Rail connection to Dublin Connolly (Mon-Sun)

Depart Rosslare 18:10 Arrive Fishguard 21:25
Rail connection to Carmarthen only (Mon-Sun); No onward connections
Rail connection from Dublin Connolly (Mon-Sun)

Depart Fishguard 23:45 Arrive Rosslare 04:00
Rail connection from Manchester Piccadilly (Mon-Sat)
Rail connection from Swansea (Sun)
Rail connection to Dublin Connolly (Mon-Fri mornings)

Just come across a lengthy thread discussing Irish Sea Crossings:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143518

 

[All Line Rover]

A couple of alterations - some welcome, some not - to VTWC's timetable from 20 May:

1. The Northampton 06:40 to London Euston 07:30 service no longer runs ECS between Birmingham New Street and Rugby. It continues to depart Rugby at 06:20 but starts at Birmingham New Street at 05:45 (calling at Birmingham International and Coventry), rather than at Rugby.

A pointless change for everyone except Midlands residents who happen to start work in Northampton around 7am, given that the Birmingham New Street 05:50 departure (calling at Birmingham International, Coventry and Milton Keynes) arrives in London Euston at 07:13, but why run ECS movements if guards are available?

The 05:45 via Northampton is a 5-car Voyager whereas the 05:50 fast service is an 11-car Pendolino, but this is unlikely to eliminate confusion given that the 05:50 comes from Wolverhampton and doesn't arrive in Birmingham New Street until 05:43, whereas the 05:45 will be available to board considerably before that. Hopefully the destination of the 05:45 will be advertised as "Northampton" at Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International and Coventry.​

2. The 16:43 London Euston to Edinburgh double-Voyager, departing Birmingham New Street at 18:15, apparently becomes a single Voyager between Birmingham New Street and Edinburgh. I'm not looking forward to that.

3. The 18:43 11-car Pendolino from London Euston (20:15 from Birmingham New Street) already terminates at Crewe. The 19:43 11-car Pendolino from London Euston (21:15 from Birmingham New Street), which currently terminates at Preston, will now also be terminating at Crewe! This means that the final direct service from Birmingham New Street to Warrington, Wigan and Preston will be at 19:15 instead of 21:15, instead of just for stations between Lancaster and Glasgow inclusive. However, passengers for Warrington, Wigan and Preston will continue to be able to depart Birmingham New Street at 21:15 and arrive at their destination at the same time, with a change at Stafford: see 5 below.

4. The 20:40 11-car Pendolino from London Euston to Manchester, non-stop to Crewe, will now be running to Crewe in 90 minutes (like every other xx:40 departure from London Euston), overtaking the 20:30 London Euston to Preston which calls at Tamworth and Lichfield. This is a positive change.

5. The 20:30 London Euston to Preston will now be calling additionally at Stafford and Crewe, rather than running non-stop between Lichfield and Warrington, extending the journey time from London to Warrington, Wigan and Preston by approximately 10 minutes. This change provides a departure from Stafford to Crewe (and on to Preston) at 22:00, between the 21:55 Virgin Trains service to Crewe (formerly Preston) and the 22:10 London Midland service to Liverpool. This appears to be designed to allow passengers on the 21:15 from Birmingham New Street to Crewe to connect at Stafford for Warrington, Wigan and Preston. Arrival times in Warrington, Wigan and Preston remain unchanged compared to the direct service. The connection at Stafford is approximately 10 minutes, which is more than adequate.