May 2023 changes

[Bald Rick]

Is there a bright side of less engineering disruption?

offset by more TSRs.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Suspect it is the Treasury asking DfT to reduce costs and the TOCs having to come up with a suitable plan to identify those cost savings, including fleet reductions as necessary.

Indeed, all very much treasury led and this is before the delayed Chancellors’s financial statement which is expected to many government department’s budgets further.

Fleet reductions (like the removal of Southerns 455s earlier this year) and resultant traincrew savings by removing services (primarily reduction in recruitment/training costs to fill the current vacancy gaps may well be needed.

The money tree has run out of leaves.

 

[petersi]

Very. I’ve never known anything like it.

Made worse by the strikes, unfortunately.

As the station where I live is basically at a 1989 frequency ( Welwyn Garden City) already (2 slows 2 Cambridge stoppers(yes I know one an only goes to Letchworth now)
The most likely cut I can see is the Cambridge Stopper being taken out of the time table.(no service north to Stevenage for stations north of Finsbury Park severed by Moorgate trains)
Welwyn North and Knebworth being service by one Peterborough and one Cambridge train each hour.
Cambridge Villagers peak hour shuttle form Letchworth.
Withdrawal of Sevenoaks services.

Or are you talking something more wholesale like closure of all station between Stevenage and Finsbury Park with the railway being 2 tracked between Welwyn Viaduct to Wood green.
The inner suburban service do not make money and quite a few station have near bye underground station

 

[Bald Rick]

As the station where I live is basically at a 1989 frequency ( Welwyn Garden City) already (2 slows 2 Cambridge stoppers(yes I know one an only goes to Letchworth now)
The most likely cut I can see is the Cambridge Stopper being taken out of the time table.(no service north to Stevenage for stations north of Finsbury Park severed by Moorgate trains)
Welwyn North and Knebworth being service by one Peterborough and one Cambridge train each hour.
Cambridge Villagers peak hour shuttle form Letchworth.
Withdrawal of Sevenoaks services.

Or are you talking something more wholesale like closure of all station between Stevenage and Finsbury Park with the railway being 2 tracked between Welwyn Viaduct to Wood green.
The inner suburban service do not make money and quite a few station have near bye underground station

No idea about specifics for the GN.

 

[TheBigD]

Is May the big ECML timetable change?

No.

Are you able to disclose why it keeps getting deferred?

Are we talking everyone unhappy with the original May 2022 proposals, conflicts on the route not being resolved etc etc, or just a loss of interest with everything else going on?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Are you able to disclose why it keeps getting deferred?

Lack of funding to cover the OPEX spend for the additional services.

 

[DanNCL]

Are you able to disclose why it keeps getting deferred?

Are we talking everyone unhappy with the original May 2022 proposals, conflicts on the route not being resolved etc etc, or just a loss of interest with everything else going on?

It’s likely none of the TOCs apart from the open access operators would actually have had the resources to run the proposed uplift. All would have had staffing issues, LNER potentially also fleet issues because of the 80x modification program.

As @HamworthyGoods has said funding also isn’t forthcoming.

 

[GN Boy]

As the station where I live is basically at a 1989 frequency ( Welwyn Garden City) already (2 slows 2 Cambridge stoppers(yes I know one an only goes to Letchworth now)
The most likely cut I can see is the Cambridge Stopper being taken out of the time table.(no service north to Stevenage for stations north of Finsbury Park severed by Moorgate trains)
Welwyn North and Knebworth being service by one Peterborough and one Cambridge train each hour.
Cambridge Villagers peak hour shuttle form Letchworth.
Withdrawal of Sevenoaks services.

Or are you talking something more wholesale like closure of all station between Stevenage and Finsbury Park with the railway being 2 tracked between Welwyn Viaduct to Wood green.
The inner suburban service do not make money and quite a few station have near bye underground station

I really cannot see this happening.

 

[Snow1964]

The Bristol Metro proposals have been put back to May 2023

But is more a case of slipping another half year, so possibly better described as yet another delay/deferral.

Could yet get another deferral or never happen in full, have to wait another 4 months for the next chapter of this saga.

 

[lammergeier]

Very. I’ve never known anything like it.

Made worse by the strikes, unfortunately.

It would be just like this government to try and blame staff for service cuts and I can see that coming a mile off. However, when the public sector in its entirety is facing significant cuts it's going to be a stretch to convince the public that railway service cuts are anything other than a combination of ideological positioning and a response to their own appalling mismanagement of the economy.

Even nurses have just voted for strike action - are we to blame them for NHS cuts?

 

[route101]

If that’s to be the case then I’d expect many of the long term ScotRail reductions, such as the Glasgow to Ayr and Gourock fasts, to return as well.

As an aside, if I was to design a 2tph timetable on the Shotts line I’d be minded to have both stop almost everywhere rather than one fast and one slow - it’s not really intended as an end-to-end route.

I would like to see the fast Shotts back as it would be useful for people of Lanarkshire to have a faster option rather than driving to Croy, using the very limited services from Motherwell or any via Bathgate services to Edinburgh.

 

[fisher2511]

I would like to see the fast Shotts back as it would be useful for people of Lanarkshire to have a faster option rather than driving to Croy, using the very limited services from Motherwell or any via Bathgate services to Edinburgh.

I would also like to see the fast Shotts reinstated. With few Cross Country and ECML trains from Glasgow Central, it provides a useful link for people from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire who don’t want to walk or carry luggage to Queen Street for long distance journeys, or who don’t want to use the inter station bus.

 

[Tayway]

Wasn't there a suggestion that the Shotts line could move to 3tph now that electrification has been completed? Something like 2tph semi-fast between Central and Edinburgh, and an additional 1tph stopping between Motherwell and Edinburgh would work nicely, although some of the smaller stations would lose out on a direct Glasgow service. You could even have an additional 1tph stopping from West Calder to Edinburgh to give Wester Hailes etc a decent service. But of course a real-terms quadrupling of service levels probably isn't on the cards right now!

 

[route101]

I would also like to see the fast Shotts reinstated. With few Cross Country and ECML trains from Glasgow Central, it provides a useful link for people from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire who don’t want to walk or carry luggage to Queen Street for long distance journeys, or who don’t want to use the inter station bus.

Yes, the fast Shotts was quite well used. I am pretty sure this ran after Covid before being canned.

 

[XC victim]

Are any improvements to CrossCountry timetables expected from May 2023?

 

[lammergeier]

Are any improvements to CrossCountry timetables expected from May 2023?

There are/were but the impending cuts may mean that they don't go ahead, or are less comprehensive than they should be. There was supposed to be extra HST diagrams and some more Reading-York/Newcastle via Doncaster's returning but whether or not this happens now is down to the funding available.

 

[frodshamfella]

I just received a tweet from TFW stating that the Chester- Runcorn - Liverpool Lime Street service will finally return to hourly from May23. Whether it will continue beyond Chester yet, I don't know.

 

[Goldfish62]

Very. I’ve never known anything like it.

Made worse by the strikes, unfortunately.

All very depressing indeed!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

All very depressing indeed!

Indeed we all feel we are just going round in circles being asked the same questions regarding efficiencies but hoping for different answers!

 

[AL1]

I just received a tweet from TFW stating that the Chester- Runcorn - Liverpool Lime Street service will finally return to hourly from May23. Whether it will continue beyond Chester yet, I don't know.

TfW have previously stated that by December 2023 for the Llandudno extension, and December 2024 for Shrewsbury and alternate hours to Cardiff.

 

[anthony263]

D

Despite what local enthusiasts saying . I asked when I took the family to see the mockups at Taff's well and the Cardiff to Liverpool services are definitely still going ahead every 2 hours opposite to the Cardiff to Holyhead services.

Aberdare to Hirwaun extension.is definitely going ahead in fact tfw have applied to extend some trains which terminated st pontypridd or started from Abercynon to go to or from aberdare replacing the tower freight paths.

 

[frodshamfella]

TfW have previously stated that by December 2023 for the Llandudno extension, and December 2024 for Shrewsbury and alternate hours to Cardiff.

fingers crossed then

 

[greyman42]

There are/were but the impending cuts may mean that they don't go ahead, or are less comprehensive than they should be. There was supposed to be extra HST diagrams and some more Reading-York/Newcastle via Doncaster's returning but whether or not this happens now is down to the funding available.

What funding is needed to get the Newcastle-Reading's back?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What funding is needed to get the Newcastle-Reading's back?

Funding from the DfT as this increases the XC Cost base compared to today.

 

[Greybeard33]

Are you able to disclose why it keeps getting deferred?

Are we talking everyone unhappy with the original May 2022 proposals, conflicts on the route not being resolved etc etc, or just a loss of interest with everything else going on?

The papers for the 15 November meeting of the Rail North Committee have been published and give some information about the ECML timetable.

3.3 In 2021 a revised timetable, planned to be introduced in May 2022, was consulted upon. It would have provided a third London North Eastern Railway (LNER) service per hour between London and Newcastle but at the expense of an existing northeast – northwest service which would have reduced connectivity across the north, had other impacts on local services, and reduced calling patterns at some stations in the North.

3.4 Transport for the North, with input from its partner authorities, made a robust response to the 2021 timetable consultation which contributed to the decision by the industry to develop alternative proposals.

3.5 In June 2022, the Department for Transport (DfT) issued to Transport for the North and key partners a further draft East Coast Main Line timetable for review.

3.6 Transport for the North’s consultants undertook a comparison between the previous timetable (issued in summer 2021) and the one issued for consultation in June 2022. This technical work concluded that whilst the most recent draft timetable provides additional connectivity benefits in some parts of the region, it did not deliver the requirements of all partners and stakeholders.

3.7 A Ministerial decision giving direction on whether the proposed timetable will go ahead in 2023 is, at the time of preparing this report, awaited. However, it is understood by Transport for the North that the proposal for May 2023 is to ‘roll over’ the December 2022 timetable with some minor amendments.

3.8 Transport for the North also understands that the next opportunity to implement a significant timetable change is no earlier than December 2023, subject to responses to consultation with stakeholders and timetable performance modelling.

3.9 In response to previous consultation there are calls from Transport for the North Constituent Authorities to see the 2tph Manchester to Newcastle service reinstated and for the restoration of the second Cross Country train per hour through South Yorkshire (Reading to Newcastle via Sheffield and Doncaster) to improve East West connectivity.

Agenda for Rail North Committee on Tuesday, 15th November, 2022, 11.00 am

 

[Bald Rick]

Extra Funding from the DfT HMT

Corrected for you.

ps - There isn’t any more funding from HMT, indeed there will be less. See the budget / non-budget next week.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Corrected for you.

ps - There isn’t any more funding from HMT, indeed there will be less. See the budget / non-budget next week.

It’s also worth pointing out that even if by some miracle next years budget somehow is the same with inflation and rising energy costs it buys you less services.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s also worth pointing out that even if by some miracle next years budget somehow is the same with inflation and rising emerge costs it buys you less services.

Quite.

 

[Peter0124]

Also does anyone know if the late night Newton - Mount Florida trains are coming back? Last one is 19.53 which is ridiculous (used to be 22.49 in 2019).

Also what about the Friday late night extras from Glasgow Central

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Also does anyone know if the late night Newton - Mount Florida trains are coming back? Last one is 19.53 which is ridiculous (used to be 22.49 in 2019).

Also what about the Friday late night extras from Glasgow Central

19:53 for a last train for a journey of fifteen minutes is appalling.