May 2023 changes

[Class 170101]

then they would rip out the calls at Wolverhampton & Coventry.

Isn't that only 2tph, one XC and one Avanti Intercity service each between the two.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't that only 2tph, one XC and one Avanti Intercity service each between the two.

Direct yes, but plenty with a change at New St.

 

[Class 170101]

Direct yes, but plenty with a change at New St.

Passengers like direct trains (and prefer it where possible).

 

[mangyiscute]

There's no way XC would ever remove those calls, they're way too popular. Brockenhurst isn't that well used which would be its main reason for removal, although it should be added back asap because there isn't any good reason not to

 

[nw1]

There's no way XC would ever remove those calls, they're way too popular. Brockenhurst isn't that well used which would be its main reason for removal, although it should be added back asap because there isn't any good reason not to

I completely agree about Wolverhampton and Coventry, it would be crazy to run straight through without stopping. That said, I do think there is merit in continuing to run 1tph to Reading non-stop to Leamington via Solihull, as it gives a fast option to Oxford, Reading and points south.

"Not that well used" isn't really a good enough reason to remove a long-standing stop which does serve a purpose. Not only is there the IoW connection, but Brockenhurst itself is busy enough on a sunny summer weekend.

It's important enough to warrant a call in the faster Weymouth service, so one might think it's important enough for XC.

Beaulieu Road is "not that well used" but I would definitely be protesting if that was proposed for closure.

I do note @hexagon789's point that XC may want to refocus on not providing local services in the future, but if "capacity" means passenger load, they're not usually heavily loaded west of Southampton anyway. And if it means avoiding congestion/pathing problems, they coped fine with the Brockenhurst stop for many years.

 

[Birmingham]

continuing to run 1tph to Reading non-stop to Leamington via Solihull, as it gives a fast option to Oxford, Reading and points south.

Which itself is not even happening at the moment (Nuneham Viaduct aside).

 

[Goldfish62]

There's a detailed article in a recent Modern Railways that answers many of the points above. Pertinent are:

Brockenhurst is never going to have a full service restoration.

Coventry and Wolverhampton will continue to be served by every train and XC's ambition is to divert the handful of services that operate via Solihull to also serve Coventry. That however is dependent on double tracking between Leamington and Coventry, which obviously isn't going to happen any time soon, perhaps never given the state of the railways.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Beaulieu Road is "not that well used" but I would definitely be protesting if that was proposed for closure.

So would I! Many a wonderful day out at the adjacent pub and with the wild donkeys just in front of the station

Which itself is not even happening at the moment (Nuneham Viaduct aside).

Yes, they’ve been very slow indeed to restore services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So would I! Many a wonderful day out at the adjacent pub and with the wild donkeys just in front of the station

It's also walkable to Ferny Crofts Scout Camp, which is quite useful if your Group doesn't have a minibus. Used it for that a number of times.

There's a detailed article in a recent Modern Railways that answers many of the points above. Pertinent are:

Brockenhurst is never going to have a full service restoration.

Coventry and Wolverhampton will continue to be served by every train and XC's ambition is to divert the handful of services that operate via Solihull to also serve Coventry. That however is dependent on double tracking between Leamington and Coventry, which obviously isn't going to happen any time soon, perhaps never given the state of the railways.

It's well worth reading that article, but I love the way it totally ignores the massive elephant stomping around the room when it comes to XC - capacity.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's well worth reading that article, but I love the way it totally ignores the massive elephant stomping around the room when it comes to XC - capacity.

I’d consider it a sensible idea that they’ve good as mothballed Brockenhurst for that reason, much as I always preferred to take them over SWR when heading to Lymington, and I would consider it worthy for them to drop Southampton Airport Parkway also.

 

[3RDGEN]

In the Modern Railways article it mentions Cov - New St, previously XC arrived at Cov a quarter of an hour after the last New St train so they got the walk up passengers who catch the first train to turn up but now they run a few minutes behind London - New St services. Assuming all is on time the Birmingham walk up passengers will get one of the London services and XC gets the long distance passengers, changes like that should help manage XC loadings.

 

[nw1]

It's well worth reading that article, but I love the way it totally ignores the massive elephant stomping around the room when it comes to XC - capacity.

I haven't read the article (is it online?) but - if capacity is the stated reason for no Brockenhurst calls, it really doesn't make sense. As I said, the busiest stretch is north of Reading, and to some extent north of Southampton. Removing the long-standing Brockenhurst call will do precisely zilch to relieve the overcrowding problem on Bournemouth-Manchester services, but will inconvenience a small but significant number of passengers for no discernible benefit.

I’d consider it a sensible idea that they’ve good as mothballed Brockenhurst for that reason, much as I always preferred to take them over SWR when heading to Lymington, and I would consider it worthy for them to drop Southampton Airport Parkway also.

Not sure about that - it provides easy access to the service for people who live in the north of Southampton, as well as the university and its halls of residence, with easy bus access to Parkway.

 

[mangyiscute]

I’d consider it a sensible idea that they’ve good as mothballed Brockenhurst for that reason, much as I always preferred to take them over SWR when heading to Lymington, and I would consider it worthy for them to drop Southampton Airport Parkway also.

Why do you want them to drop stops? As has been already mentioned, the busy part of the route is north of reading, so removing Southampton Airport is not going to help with that (or if it did the passengers who took it to north of reading don't have a reasonable alternative). And if there are too many passengers, then the solution is not trying to reduce demand, it is increasing trains lengths and providing more capacity. There's no good reason to remove stops.

 

[Birmingham]

XC's ambition is to divert the handful of services that operate via Solihull to also serve Coventry.

Any insight on those services — i.e. the Newcastle-Readings — becoming any more than said handful, considering they used to be hourly?

 

[dk1]

Any insight on those services — i.e. the Newcastle-Readings — becoming any more than said handful, considering they used to be hourly?

Possibly December?

 

[hexagon789]

I do note @hexagon789's point that XC may want to refocus on not providing local services in the future, but if "capacity" means passenger load, they're not usually heavily loaded west of Southampton anyway. And if it means avoiding congestion/pathing problems, they coped fine with the Brockenhurst stop for many years.

Don't shoot the messenger!

I'm just posting an outline of what was in the piece in Modern Railways.

Any insight on those services — i.e. the Newcastle-Readings — becoming any more than said handful, considering they used to be hourly?

They aren't coming back as a regular hourly interval service from what i understand, instead XC intends to 'add services at key times to target demand'.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's well worth reading that article, but I love the way it totally ignores the massive elephant stomping around the room when it comes to XC - capacity.

Indeed, but I think we have to therefore take as read that the DfT has absolutely no intention of increasing capacity on XC. Ever. Quite the opposite in fact with the withdrawal of the HSTs.

 

[dk1]

Indeed, but I think we have to therefore take as read that the DfT has absolutely no intention of increasing capacity on XC. Ever. Quite the opposite in fact with the withdrawal of the HSTs.

Ever?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Indeed, but I think we have to therefore take as read that the DfT has absolutely no intention of increasing capacity on XC. Ever. Quite the opposite in fact with the withdrawal of the HSTs.

If the HSTs weren’t fifty years old and knackered, perhaps you could say that, but I certainly think that has a hand in their demise.

 

[Goldfish62]

If the HSTs weren’t fifty years old and knackered, perhaps you could say that, but I certainly think that has a hand in their demise.

But if the DfT were interested in at least keeping current capacity on XC they'd have stated their intention to replace them with cascaded Voyagers from AWC or Meridians from EMR.

Oh, and the HSTs have just been going through an overhaul program so while they won't keep going for more than a few years it doesn't seem at all necessary to withdraw them without replacement.

 

[nw1]

Ever?

Within the foreseeable future, I guess.

Perhaps when HuntRail plc lose their franchise in about a year's time, things might improve.

Don't shoot the messenger!

I'm just posting an outline of what was in the piece in Modern Railways.

OK fair enough! Hope I didn't come across too argumentative, I didn't mean to.

 

[3RDGEN]

Any insight on those services — i.e. the Newcastle-Readings — becoming any more than said handful, considering they used to be hourly?

Sorry to keep quoting the Mod Rails article but in it XC claim some of the paths via Doncaster have been taken/compromised by freight traffic whilst they didn't run during COVID so there not returning to hourly. Also in the article was reference to cutting the Newcastle - Reading services back to York as part of the new EC 3tph to Edinburgh plan if/when it ever happens, from the May timetable what should be the 15:36 from Newcastle starts from York.

 

[nw1]

Don't shoot the messenger!

I'm just posting an outline of what was in the piece in Modern Railways.


They aren't coming back as a regular hourly interval service from what i understand, instead XC intends to 'add services at key times to target demand'.

Interesting that this is actually something of a move back more to the BR philosophy on IC routes which was to increase frequency at busy times and provide a thinner offering off-peak. By contrast, in recent (pre-Covid) years the philosophy has been the high-frequency all-day service. The pros to the "peak only" philosophy would be less wear and tear on the stock, and less staff time needed, but the cons would be that you can "build the market" by running an all day even interval service, and the stock requirements for an all-day high-frequency service are little more than a peak-only high-frequency service.

It depends when the Reading-Newcastles do run, I guess. For an adequate service, at a guess, they need to provide them on the Reading-Birmingham section Mon-Fri until around mid-morning and from mid-afternoon, and all day Saturday (indeed all day Mon-Fri in school holidays).

 

[Peterthegreat]

Interesting that this is actually something of a move back more to the BR philosophy on IC routes which was to increase frequency at busy times and provide a much thinner offering off-peak. By contrast, in recent (pre-Covid) years the philosophy has been the high-frequency all-day service. The pros to this philosophy would be less wear and tear on the stock, and less staff time needed, but the cons would be that you can "build the market" by running an all day even interval service, and the stock requirements for an all-day high-frequency service are little more than a peak-only high-frequency service.

It depends when the Reading-Newcastles do run, I guess. For an adequate service, at a guess, they need to provide them on the Reading-Birmingham ntil section Mon-Fri until around mid-morning and from mid-afternoon, and all day Saturday (indeed all day Mon-Fri in school holidays).

It's rather difficult to provide a service until mid morning and from mid afternoon on a route as long as Newcastle to Reading.

 

[nw1]

It's rather difficult to provide a service until mid morning and from mid afternoon on a route as long as Newcastle to Reading.

Admittedly I was focusing on the Reading-Birmingham section.

(Incidentally does it run all day north of Birmingham? I was probably assuming it did).

And to clarify my preference for this route would be the all-day option! Was setting out the above as the absolute minimum that I think can be accepted.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Admittedly I was focusing on the Reading-Birmingham section.

(Incidentally does it run all day north of Birmingham? I was probably assuming it did).

And to clarify my preference for this route would be the all-day option! Was setting out the above as the absolute minimum that I think can be accepted.

Accepted by whom?
The May 23 service is the level of service the govt wish to buy from XC so that’s unlikely to change any time soon, especially as demand on the route will have been dented by the ongoing line closure.

 

[nw1]

Accepted by whom?

By the travelling public, at a guess (assuming the busiest times are until mid-morning and after mid-afternoon, and all day Sats).

The May 23 service is the level of service the govt wish to buy from XC so that’s unlikely to change any time soon, especially as demand on the route will have been dented by the ongoing line closure.

The line closure is a temporary situation though, I'm talking about the service pattern once that's resolved.

 

[mangyiscute]

I just wish there was one timed to leave Birmingham towards Reading at say half 7, since in the evenings those trains leaving Birmingham are busy so they could do with a boost to capacity with the reduction to single voyagers

 

[Birmingham]

I just wish there was one timed to leave Birmingham towards Reading at say half 7, since in the evenings those trains leaving Birmingham are busy so they could do with a boost to capacity with the reduction to single voyagers

Oddly there is an 1833 from Birmingham to Reading (starts York 1637) on Saturdays only but nothing around that time in the week besides the Manchester to Bournemouth services. Nothing around PM commuter time during the week either.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

By the travelling public, at a guess (assuming the busiest times are until mid-morning and after mid-afternoon, and all day Sats).

The line closure is a temporary situation though, I'm talking about the service pattern once that's resolved.

The line closure is temporary yes but it will have driven away sone demand as people have found other routes - routes which have been shut for some time rarely recover to previous traffic levels immediately.