May 2023 changes

[Kite159]

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Also does anyone know if the late night Newton - Mount Florida trains are coming back? Last one is 19.53 which is ridiculous (used to be 22.49 in 2019).

Also what about the Friday late night extras from Glasgow Central

And it's not like there is an easy change unless you walk between Kings Park & Cathcart [or Langside to Cathcart]. Or travel via Glasgow [Newton - Glasgow via Langside, returning towards Mount Florida on a Neilston train)

 

[DaveHarries]

"Major changes are planned for the Snow Hill lines in May 2023, more information will be shared in the New Year."
(West Midlands Railways - https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co....ge?promo_name=timetable&promo_pos=teaser_2col)

Dave

 

[Peter0124]

and it's not like there is an easy change unless you walk between Kings Park & Cathcart [or Langside to Cathcart]. Or travel via Glasgow [Newton - Glasgow via Langside, returning towards Mount Florida on a Neilston train)

Surprisingly theres later Newton-Mount Florida trains on Sundays only

 

[class 9]

It’s also worth pointing out that even if by some miracle next years budget somehow is the same with inflation and rising energy costs it buys you less services.

But not staff costs, that hasn't changed for 3 years, so like for like they're cheaper!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But not staff costs, that hasn't changed for 3 years, so like for like they're cheaper!

That’s a drop in the ocean compared to energy costs and general inflation costs. It still stands that increase in costs alone gets you around 10% less train service than this financial year.

 

[Tramtrain]

Are paths likely to be set aside for the Northumberland Line services?

 

[Watershed]

Are paths likely to be set aside for the Northumberland Line services?

They have certainly been allowed for in the ECML recast.

 

[mcnw35282]

I really hope the Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay service is reinstated...one train per hour from St Helens Junction is seriously taking the Michael.

 

[david1212]

While XC have been mentioned that did not include south of Reading. Having just one service every two hours is poor giving the only other is the hourly Reading - Basingstoke GWR. Onward to Southampton arrival is only 20 minutes ahead of the next XC service.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

While XC have been mentioned that did not include south of Reading. Having just one service every two hours is poor giving the only other is the hourly Reading - Basingstoke GWR. Onward to Southampton arrival is only 20 minutes ahead of the next XC service.

Reading to Basingstoke GWR locals are half-hourly not hourly on Monday to Saturdays.

 

[david1212]

Reading to Basingstoke GWR locals are half-hourly not hourly on Monday to Saturdays.

I admit I was looking at Reading - Southampton with a change at Basingstoke on the National Rail website and the GWR departures at xx:32 do not seem to connect southbound from Basingstoke.

As an example the XC that arrives at Reading 11:41 currently terminates. If it continued to Southampton it would arrive around an hour later. The next GWR to Basingstoke is 12:07. The departure south is 12:48 arriving Southampton 13:22. The next XC arrival at Southampton is 13:42.

Northbound there are XC departures from Southampton at 10:15, 12:15 and 14:15 which depart north from Reading an hour later. From Reading the 12:13 and 14:15 start at there. To connect with these requires departing Southampton 10:30 / 12:30 just 15 minutes after the previous XC with changes at both Winchester and Basingstoke. The departures from Southampton at 11:00 and 13:00 with one change at Basingstoke arrive into Reading a few minutes after the XC has departed north.

Hence why XC needs to return to hourly at least to Southampton if not Bournemouth. Over a day running every two hours with mostly double sets provides a similar number of seats as a single set hourly but is poor from a timing / service viewpoint.

 

[sannox]

Are XC going to start anything but a token service from Glasgow Central again? Lots of direct connections lost to changing at Edinburgh which took the place when East Coast services were cut back.

 

[The Planner]

Are XC going to start anything but a token service from Glasgow Central again? Lots of direct connections lost to changing at Edinburgh which took the place when East Coast services were cut back.

No

 

[NewClee153]

"Major changes are planned for the Snow Hill lines in May 2023, more information will be shared in the New Year."
(West Midlands Railways - https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co....ge?promo_name=timetable&promo_pos=teaser_2col)

Dave

Does anyone have anymore information on this?

All I know so far are that calls to Langley Green, Old Hill and Lye are swapping from the Kidderminster - Stratford's to the Worcester - Whitlock's End/Dorridge services, and services will be more evenly spaced out, with a clockface half hourly service to Dorridge and Whitlock's End respectively - not ideal for those travelling between Stratford Parkway/upon-Avon and Birmingham

Hopefully we'll see some form of improvement for the Sunday service. First service of the day on the Kidderminster side is still after 10am, even worse, is the lack of trains after 6 for Langley Green, Old Hill, Lye and for stations to Dorridge and Stratford

 

[Jamesrob637]

I wonder, across the network in general, how many percent of pre-COVID services will run or be back in May 2023. Bearing in mind that there have been some post-COVID enhancements here and there too.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I wonder, across the network in general, how many percent of pre-COVID services will run or be back in May 2023. Bearing in mind that there have been some post-COVID enhancements here and there too.

I don't know but I would wager between 60 and 85%, excluding Open Access, TfW, Elizabeth Line, Mersey Rail and London Overground (ARL). Reckon it will vary massively between toc's. A lot of it is still up in the air at the minute though, so most people don't know the full answer.

I think for more pre covid services to be restored, you will have to wait for either a change in government and even then no guarantee that that will cause that, or the Rail industry's finances to recover, or for the industry to reduce its costs so there is more money to run services, but quite frankly that could take over 10 years for the industry to get into that position.

Also, when more services eventually start to be added back into the timetable into the future, I think the timetable and travel patterns will have evolved so significantly that it won't really be a case of adding back in pre covid services, and more adding in new services that didn't previously exist before or existed but in a different form. But that is something that if it does happen will happen well down the line.

Edit: I should add May 23 will almost certainly be a reduction on the current timetable, that's why I mentioned 60-85% as that is a reduction on what is running now. Although I do think that depends on the scale of political uproar in response to it.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder, across the network in general, how many percent of pre-COVID services will run or be back in May 2023. Bearing in mind that there have been some post-COVID enhancements here and there too.

I’d have thought, given the general tone of other discussions, it’s equally likely May 2023 will have less services than now.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’d have thought, given the general tone of other discussions, it’s equally likely May 2023 will have less services than now.

I wouldn't be surprised. Not on a blanket basis, but potentially targeted reductions here and there.

 

[43074]

Edit: I should add May 23 will almost certainly be a reduction on the current timetable, that's why I mentioned 60-85% as that is a reduction on what is running now. Although I do think that depends on the scale of political uproar in response to it.

Agree it depends on the scale of the uproar but also whether the people making the decisions take note (spoiler: they won't)

Unfortunately the lack of opposition to service cuts so far doesn't fill me with confidence. Who, either inside or outside the industry, is actually trying to oppose further cuts to the industry aside from the unions?

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder, across the network in general, how many percent of pre-COVID services will run or be back in May 2023. Bearing in mind that there have been some post-COVID enhancements here and there too.

if you mean what % of the 2019 timetable is running now (in terms of train services), and what % will be running from the December 2022 timetable change….

Now its’s around 90%

From Dec 22 it’s about 92%.

 

[Kite159]

I wouldn't be surprised. Not on a blanket basis, but potentially targeted reductions here and there.

I can see some lines which are mostly all-day 2tph getting cut to 1tph off-peak with some peak time extras, ie Southport - Wigan.

 

[Peter0124]

Will there be cuts on Scotrail routes or?

 

[hexagon789]

if you mean what % of the 2019 timetable is running now (in terms of train services), and what % will be running from the December 2022 timetable change….

Now its’s around 90%

From Dec 22 it’s about 92%.

And from May 2023, can we hope for ~94%?

 

[DDB]

if you mean what % of the 2019 timetable is running now (in terms of train services), and what % will be running from the December 2022 timetable change….

Now its’s around 90%

From Dec 22 it’s about 92%.

How is the percentage calculated? Is it station calls? Number of diagrams per day? Number of headcodes?
What I'm basically asking is if a service now stops short of its original destination or has less carriages than before will that show up in that statistic?

 

[Watershed]

if you mean what % of the 2019 timetable is running now (in terms of train services), and what % will be running from the December 2022 timetable change….

Now its’s around 90%

From Dec 22 it’s about 92%.

What is the percentage if you exclude Elizabeth Line services? Are those figures the absolute numbers of trains or the train miles (or passenger vehicle miles)?

I also suspect that there's a substantial variation by area hidden amongst those averages. Large parts of the network outside London are running on half their pre-Covid frequencies and seem to have no prospect of improvement.

 

[PGAT]

if you mean what % of the 2019 timetable is running now (in terms of train services), and what % will be running from the December 2022 timetable change….

Now its’s around 90%

From Dec 22 it’s about 92%.

Where I live and most areas I go to it’s far off that, probably in the low 60s

 

[Goldfish62]

Where I live and most areas I go to it’s far off that, probably in the low 60s

Approx 75% on my line in the London commuter belt.

The nearby Reading - Birmingham corridor is 50%.

 

[Route115?]

How is the percentage calculated? Is it station calls? Number of diagrams per day? Number of headcodes?
What I'm basically asking is if a service now stops short of its original destination or has less carriages than before will that show up in that statistic?

I know that we used to prepare a report each timetable when I worked for Deltarail and I think that this included services and train miles. You could also calculate stops. You are right, the metric must be quoted. I don't think that we ever calculated vehicle miles - you would need the diagrams for that, although the trend is towards fewer longer trains.

Its a very interesting issue as I read a great deal about the need for higher speeds but I think that the key issue is generalised journey train where waiting times and issues with cancelled trains and missed connections are far more important than speed (waiting time is counted at about double in train time). The best approach to reducing journey time is therefore increasing frequency and reducing cancellations rather than major infrastructure schemes. That said more trains generally means lower punctuality so you do need to spend money on eliminating bottlenecks. The Swiss, as anyone who has been there knows, are very good on this.

 

[Goldfish62]

I know that we used to prepare a report each timetable when I worked for Deltarail and I think that this included services and train miles. You could also calculate stops. You are right, the metric must be quoted. I don't think that we ever calculated vehicle miles - you would need the diagrams for that, although the trend is towards fewer longer trains.

Its a very interesting issue as I read a great deal about the need for higher speeds but I think that the key issue is generalised journey train where waiting times and issues with cancelled trains and missed connections are far more important than speed (waiting time is counted at about double in train time). The best approach to reducing journey time is therefore increasing frequency and reducing cancellations rather than major infrastructure schemes. That said more trains generally means lower punctuality so you do need to spend money on eliminating bottlenecks. The Swiss, as anyone who has been there knows, are very good on this.

Thanks for posting, very interesting.

I agree. Journey time starts from the time a person decides they want to travel. In that case a "walk-on" stopping service is probably better than a fast infrequent service where the time of travel has to be planned in advance rather than being a spur of the moment decision.

 

[PGAT]

Wouldn’t counting the total seats be the best method, since it accounts for different carriage formations and total services in that day?