Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[lrailadventure]

Not sure if it's 777 or 507/8 related but there is now a broken down train at Lime Street too.. I believe 2C20 is the offending culprit this time.

Merseyrail controllers must be smashing their heads against the desk by now, surely?

 

[JetTheWolf]

Has merseytravel demanded answers from Stadler yet? This many failed trains (and constantly too) is surely far from the norm for a rollout

 

[507021]

Has merseytravel demanded answers from Stadler yet? This many failed trains (and constantly too) is surely far from the norm for a rollout

Rotheram has asked for compensation apparently, haven't heard anything since.

 

[Killingworth]

Has merseytravel demanded answers from Stadler yet? This many failed trains (and constantly too) is surely far from the norm for a rollout

I hope this experience won't be repeated with the 555s on Tyneside. State of the art they are, and like the 777s long overdue.

 

[karlbbb]

Do the 777s have any kind of “ice mode” whereby they try to make the pickup shoes a little warmer to help melt the ice away? In the same vein, does the regenerative braking have any positive effect in the colder weather?

 

[jamesst]

Do the 777s have any kind of “ice mode” whereby they try to make the pickup shoes a little warmer to help melt the ice away? In the same vein, does the regenerative braking have any positive effect in the colder weather?

Yep it has a frosty mode which warms the shoes where its currently standing.

 

[karlbbb]

Looks like the Headbolt Lane line is currently entirely stopped and has been for a little while, due to a train fault.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Looks like the Headbolt Lane line is currently entirely stopped and has been for a little while, due to a train fault.

Now half hourly service tomorrow, due to a shortage of available units. Surely you can't have that many demic sets?? - https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1747344794328686599

 

[lrailadventure]

Have all of the battery 777s been put into passenger service yet, or are there some that are still in the testing stage? I haven't been keeping track of which are in service, but if all 7 are in service now, and they can only cover 2 diagrams.. it's getting to be quite pathetic now.

With the 507s now starting to be withdrawn, is it likely other lines are going to start seeing reduced services put in place too, or are these faults exclusive to the battery variant (its not like the standard 777s are much more reliable...)

 

[prod_pep]

The only one of the 777/1s I haven't seen in service is 777150. The other six have definitely all been used, although one (777144?) is clearly long-term out of service.

 

[lrailadventure]

777150 has been in service (seen on 6 Dec, not sure what it has done since), so it that case all of them have worked at some point and only being able to cover 2 diagrams is a bit suspicious..

Just asked someone who had internal information, 140, 142 and 152 have all been causing issues today. Some issues with the collector shoes not raising/lowering and others having DRS faults.. does anyone know what the latter may be?

Another has also just broken down on the line as we speak, believe the culprit this time is 2F58 at Fazakerly, with 2F59 now stuck behind it as Headbolt Lane.. Rail replacement buses are in operation.

 

[Terry Williams]

Isn't it about time the next batch of 777s were delivered?

 

[Bikeman78]

Some bizarre decisions across the network this morning. The errant 2W02 was sent around the loop 25 minutes late, followed by the train it had delayed, a 507 on 2W03. This led to both services being cancelled at Birkenhead North on their way back and thus no service between North and West Kirby from 07.11 to 08.28. A considerable crowd of distinctly disgruntled passengers were present at Birkenhead North.

Absolutely mind-boggling the 507 wasn't turned back at Birkenhead North and its passengers passed to the following New Brighton - Liverpool train.

No better today. 2C23 terminated at Hooton after being delayed by faulty 2Y13. 2C24 also cancelled so 45 minute gap on the Chester line. Bad luck if you wanted Capenhurst because 2C25 didn't stop. 2Y16 ran wrong road through Hooton thus delaying 2C25.

EDIT: The 507 didn't even leave right time because it was following the late train from Ellesmere Port and was seven late by the time it got to Liverpool. I used to be able to set my watch by the trains on Merseyrail. The last two visits, the Hooton line has been totally screwed by faulty 777s. Once the 507s are gone I won't have to go there anymore. I feel sorry for the locals that will have to put up with this for months to come.

 

[lrailadventure]

Merseyrail has just put on X that there will once again be a half hourly service tomorrow on the Headbolt Lane line due to train availability..

https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1747682257274294597?t=cbZo6yj1eCkCy9IKobCgTg&s=19

⚠️ Latest Service Updates - Thursday 18th January ⚠️

Due to a shortage of available trains, there will be a 30-minute service in place on the Headbolt Lane line tomorrow.

For more information, please click here - merseyrail.org/journey-planni…

How broken are the 5 777/1s that are out of action?

 

[Sam 76]

Merseyrail has just put on X that there will once again be a half hourly service tomorrow on the Headbolt Lane line due to train availability..

https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1747682257274294597?t=cbZo6yj1eCkCy9IKobCgTg&s=19

How broken are the 5 777/1s that are out of action?

I suspect it’s got something to do with the cold. 2 in service with 2 as backup would be my bet

 

[TheSel]

Interesting report recently appeared on BBC News.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68006861

"Merseyrail's battery-powered trains may have been introduced too soon, a leading railway journalist has said.

There have been repeated problems with the new publicly-owned fleet of Swiss-built trains which started running on the Kirkby line a year ago.

...

"Mr Miles said the "excitement" of the trains being available may have caused the roll out to happen "earlier rather than later".


Much more by following the link.

 

[NeoJade]

Not exactly certain, but seems 777146 was undergoing some form of testing before being dragged out yesterday after the disaster start of service. Assuming it was being used for testing of new systems, as we now have better HBL announcements, and a male announcer in combination with Julie.

With the shoes, one can assume they were frozen over as theres been constant issues with them and switching between 3rd rail and battery.

Wouldn't reckon they were introduced too fast, but just that there should have been a provision to serve Kirkby with 507s/777-0s in the interim while they get up to a constant 2tph without any issues.
Though its commonly known by locals that Rotherham forced the rollout, so, perhaps.

 

[childwallblues]

Interesting report recently appeared on BBC News.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68006861

"Merseyrail's battery-powered trains may have been introduced too soon, a leading railway journalist has said.

There have been repeated problems with the new publicly-owned fleet of Swiss-built trains which started running on the Kirkby line a year ago.

...

"Mr Miles said the "excitement" of the trains being available may have caused the roll out to happen "earlier rather than later".


Much more by following the link.

Mr Mayor wanted his moment of fame!

 

[NeoJade]

Mr Mayor wanted his moment of fame!

Yep, pretty sure he forced the roll out for the Labour conference. HBL is still yet to be finished.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Interesting report recently appeared on BBC News.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68006861

"Merseyrail's battery-powered trains may have been introduced too soon, a leading railway journalist has said.

There have been repeated problems with the new publicly-owned fleet of Swiss-built trains which started running on the Kirkby line a year ago.

...

"Mr Miles said the "excitement" of the trains being available may have caused the roll out to happen "earlier rather than later".


Much more by following the link.

Tony Miles blaming politicians and absolving the railway of any responsibility is predictable and tedious.

 

[childwallblues]

Tony Miles blaming politicians and absolving the railway of any responsibility is predictable and tedious.

But quite true.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But quite true.

How?

We can argue about the spec of these trains, I certainly find the interior mediocre. But the fault for manufacturing an unreliable train cannot possibly lie anywhere other than Stadler. That includes if the spec asked for something unrealistic - in that case a professional who cares about their reputation refuses the order.

 

[karlbbb]

They're not having a good morning on the Ormskirk line. A train has been missing since early morning (originally would have been 2O05), and it looks like one (2O10) has just popped at Walton, leaving only 4 out of 6 trains on the line.

EDIT: Looks like a 777/1 isn't having a good time on the Headbolt line either. 2K09 left Sandhills 1L, arrived Kirkdale 7L and has just departed 13L. It's delaying 2G28 and the broken down 5O10 from leaving Walton.

 

[Bikeman78]

They're not having a good morning on the Ormskirk line. A train has been missing since early morning (originally would have been 2O05), and it looks like one (2O10) has just popped at Walton, leaving only 4 out of 6 trains on the line.

EDIT: Looks like a 777/1 isn't having a good time on the Headbolt line either. 2K09 left Sandhills 1L, arrived Kirkdale 7L and has just departed 13L. It's delaying 2G28 and the broken down 5O10 from leaving Walton.

What are the most common faults? Yesterday's failure at Spital was cameras apparently.

How?

We can argue about the spec of these trains, I certainly find the interior mediocre. But the fault for manufacturing an unreliable train cannot possibly lie anywhere other than Stadler. That includes if the spec asked for something unrealistic - in that case a professional who cares about their reputation refuses the order.

The 777s introduction has been the worst that I can recall in terms of disruption to the day to day service. They have been running for a year but I've been directly affected by four failures in a few weeks. I recall the 357s were very bad to start with but C2C had the sense to take them all out of service until the worst of the problems were resolved. By 12 months in I think they were doing okay.

 

[nigelsporne]

What percentage of services in theory are in the hands of 777s? Is it possible from RTT to determine whether it is a 777 or not, apart from Kirkby line?

 

[Bertie the bus]

But quite true.

Rarely true in the slightest. These units were ordered in 2016 and introduced into service in 2023. How long should Rotherham and MerseyTravel have to wait before trains they ordered 7 years earlier should be put into service? That doesn't seem rushed to me.

The battery trains started arriving on Merseyside in March last year and weren't introduced into service until October. Again plenty of time to perform some testing and not end up with this disastrous introduction. Wasn't 777002 fitted with batteries quite some time ago to permit testing anyway? Rotherham, Merseyrail and Stadler were boasting months before they were introduced about how fantastic these battery units were and how they exceeded the spec and expectations and how the rest of the country should flock to Merseyside to admire what they had done.

So it is all a bit late, once it has gone wrong, to say they didn't have enough time to test them.

 

[Bikeman78]

What percentage of services in theory are in the hands of 777s? Is it possible from RTT to determine whether it is a 777 or not, apart from Kirkby line?

Nothing on RTT. All of Chester, Ellesmere Port, West Kirby, Ormskirk and Headbolt Lane are meant to be 777s. XX23 off New Brighton is a 777, the other three diagrams are 507s. Only one turn to Southport which, off the top of my head, includes the 0942, 1212 and 1712 departures from Southport.

 

[prod_pep]

Still only four of the six Ormskirk line workings are covered, and two in a row are missing. This is shambolic.

There are seemingly no spare 507s to step into the breach; this is what happens when you send far too many of them for scrap too soon. We said service would start being dropped and here we go.

 

[Sam 76]

Still only four of the six Ormskirk line workings are covered, and two in a row are missing. This is shambolic.

There are seemingly no spare 507s to step into the breach; this is what happens when you send far too many of them for scrap too soon. We said service would start being dropped and here we go.

That’s terrible. Worth noting two 507s have failed at Waterloo this morning. Not a good day all round

 

[prod_pep]

That’s terrible. Worth noting two 507s have failed at Waterloo this morning. Not a good day all round

Looks like the same unit both times, 507033. The difference of course is that one has gone straight back into service.