Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[karlbbb]

Due to a lack of a general Merseyrail thread, and with the Ormskirk line now running on 777s - can anyone tell me why the headcodes on the Ormskirk line for services heading to Liverpool start at 2G59, then 2G20 to 59, then cycle again? I assume there was a previous headcode clash somewhere, but is that still the case?

Services from Headbolt start 2F01, Southport has a couple of odd ones as the first service of the day but then run 2S01 etc etc.; I'm just curious why the OMS-LVC services can't have a "full" sequence of numbers from 2G01.

 

[paddyb6]

Due to a lack of a general Merseyrail thread, and with the Ormskirk line now running on 777s - can anyone tell me why the headcodes on the Ormskirk line for services heading to Liverpool start at 2G59, then 2G20 to 59, then cycle again? I assume there was a previous headcode clash somewhere, but is that still the case?

Services from Headbolt start 2F01, Southport has a couple of odd ones as the first service of the day but then run 2S01 etc etc.; I'm just curious why the OMS-LVC services can't have a "full" sequence of numbers from 2G01.

Kirkby services used to also use the 2G.. headcodes, now with Headbolt open they've now swapped over to using 2F Headcodes for Liverpool.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Kirkby services used to also use the 2G.. headcodes, now with Headbolt open they've now swapped over to using 2F Headcodes for Liverpool.

Bit of old trivia, when they had the old Solari displays every train used to run with the same headcode if going to the same destination as these were used to automate the displays. So for instance all Ormskirks would be 2G01, for instance (I don't know if that was the actual number). So duplicates weren't a problem.

Not sure where I read that though.

 

[karlbbb]

Kirkby services used to also use the 2G.. headcodes, now with Headbolt open they've now swapped over to using 2F Headcodes for Liverpool.

D'oh, I even knew that with them having switched to 2Fxx headcodes, do we think there's any chance the services from Ormskirk would go to 2G01... etc on the next timetable refresh?

 

[Sam 76]

Up to 4 777s can now be booked on the Southport line as of today

 

[Grumpy Git]

Up to 4 777s can now be booked on the Southport line as of today

Four out of how many for the full 15m service?

 

[Jamesrob637]

As a rough guide, what percentage of Merseyrail services are booked new train from today?

 

[lrailadventure]

If I remember correctly the 777s on Mon-Fri are now covering 28 of the diagrams, with the 507s covering the other 10. Saturdays and Sundays are different and I can't remember what they are.

 

[507020]

If I remember correctly the 777s on Mon-Fri are now covering 28 of the diagrams, with the 507s covering the other 10. Saturdays and Sundays are different and I can't remember what they are.

Do these 507 diagrams include those which are doubled up to make 6 cars? I asked about train lengths at Liverpool Central today and was told that the plan (although not implemented yet) is that all Southport services will be either 4 or 6 cars.

The 777 services to Southport were initially given Class 1 headcodes, unique for Merseyrail. This was quickly reverted, but due to there being 10 diagrams the 777s were easily identifiable as the 2Sx0 and 2Ux7 services. Now that the number of 777s in the circuit has apparently increased from 1 to 4, spending a few minutes at Liverpool Central during a moment of perturbation was able to reveal that the 2 preceding services, that is 2Sx8 and 2Sx9 northbound and 2Ux5 and 2Ux6 southbound are booked 777s, giving 3 consecutive 777s out of 10 diagrams, but the remaining 777 was nowhere to be seen with 2S37 being 507016 and 2S41 being 507011+507030 today.

14 retained 507s for the time being in addition to the full 777 fleet as per the original plan would be enough to run 6 car Southport services on 6 out of the 10 diagrams, so is this still looking likely?

 

[Bikeman78]

Do these 507 diagrams include those which are doubled up to make 6 cars? I asked about train lengths at Liverpool Central today and was told that the plan (although not implemented yet) is that all Southport services will be either 4 or 6 cars.

The 777 services to Southport were initially given Class 1 headcodes, unique for Merseyrail. This was quickly reverted, but due to there being 10 diagrams the 777s were easily identifiable as the 2Sx0 and 2Ux7 services. Now that the number of 777s in the circuit has apparently increased from 1 to 4, spending a few minutes at Liverpool Central during a moment of perturbation was able to reveal that the 2 preceding services, that is 2Sx8 and 2Sx9 northbound and 2Ux5 and 2Ux6 southbound are booked 777s, giving 3 consecutive 777s out of 10 diagrams, but the remaining 777 was nowhere to be seen with 2S37 being 507016 and 2S41 being 507011+507030 today.

14 retained 507s for the time being in addition to the full 777 fleet as per the original plan would be enough to run 6 car Southport services on 6 out of the 10 diagrams, so is this still looking likely?

Thanks for the detailed info. Can anyone comment on how smoothly the 777s ride on the jointed track from Formby to Hightown? Most of the 507s manage to cope well albeit some are rather squeaky.

 

[Sam 76]

Thanks for the detailed info. Can anyone comment on how smoothly the 777s ride on the jointed track from Formby to Hightown? Most of the 507s manage to cope well albeit some are rather squeaky.

As someone who thinks the 777s are good it’s a bit rough to be honest there. Particularly at when sitting on the seats where the carriages connect it’s really bouncy, and the only place I’ve noticed it. I’m not sure if this is masked to some extent on the 507s by the doors between carriages.

It’s a bit better if your in the middle of a carriage but noticeably more bouncy than the older units.

 

[Terry Williams]

Next delivery to UK of 777s now in RTT for Weds 24th 6Q14 and 6Q77

 

[DJH1971]

Next delivery to UK of 777s now in RTT for Weds 24th 6Q14 and 6Q77

Which ones are coming?

 

[ExRes]

Which ones are coming?

According to a contributor on midlands rail gen 029, 043 & 045 are currently at Dollands Moor for tomorrows 6Q14 to Wembley

 

[TheSel]

More from Mr Rotheram today.

Link to the BBC website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68067053

... and a couple of quotes from it (more to be found by following the link)

(Headline) Merseyrail battery-powered trains 'transformational' - mayor​

(Quote) A city mayor has said the introduction of battery-powered trains has been "transformational", despite teething problems.

(Quote) It's true to say that we've seen some of those teething issues, but it's important to look at the full picture."
He has said the trains are now back "to about 90% reliability".



It's suggested above (post #6308) that there are now 28 diagrams. If Mr Rotheram's figures are correct, that suggests about three failures a day. (28 - (90*28/100)) = 25.2 reliable diagrams.

 

[karlbbb]

(Quote) It's true to say that we've seen some of those teething issues, but it's important to look at the full picture."
He has said the trains are now back "to about 90% reliability".


It's suggested above (post #6308) that there are now 28 diagrams. If Mr Rotheram's figures are correct, that suggests about three failures a day. (28 - (90*28/100)) = 25.2 reliable diagrams.

That's definitely a nice "massaging of the numbers" from him. There's not a chance the Headbolt line is 90% reliable, especially considering they can't even run a full 4tph on there!

 

[itsonlyme]

Link to the BBC website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68067053

Like the trains this link does not work

 

[TheHSRailFan]

More from Mr Rotheram today.

Link to the BBC website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68067053

... and a couple of quotes from it (more to be found by following the link)

(Headline) Merseyrail battery-powered trains 'transformational' - mayor​

(Quote) A city mayor has said the introduction of battery-powered trains has been "transformational", despite teething problems.

(Quote) It's true to say that we've seen some of those teething issues, but it's important to look at the full picture."
He has said the trains are now back "to about 90% reliability".



It's suggested above (post #6308) that there are now 28 diagrams. If Mr Rotheram's figures are correct, that suggests about three failures a day. (28 - (90*28/100)) = 25.2 reliable diagrams.

I find this kinda strange, not too long ago he was asking for compensation from Stadler over the reliability, now he's praising them like nothing happened and he wasn't happy at Stadler?

Something is not right...

also, I would like to see a breakdown of all the reliability scores including the use of batteries and without batteries.

 

[childwallblues]

Travelled on my first 777 ride south of Central today. I had seen three in service when I went up to Southport this morning and waiting at Sandhills for the 1506 to Hunts Cross when 777007 turned up.
777027 was in the sidings at Southport with one other.
777140/146/152 were on the Headbolt Lane service. 777148 was on test through Sandhills.
777014/026 were on the Otmskirk service.

 

[L401CJF]

1736 West Kirby to West Kirby cancelled due to a broken 777, unsure which unit. RTT showing it as a problem with safety equipment. Apparently a 507 is coming out to replace it empty empty stock from New Brighton.

507023 is on West Kirbys too.

Edit- Confirmed to be 777030 with PIS Fault

 

[Sam 76]

I find this kinda strange, not too long ago he was asking for compensation from Stadler over the reliability, now he's praising them like nothing happened and he wasn't happy at Stadler?

Something is not right...

also, I would like to see a breakdown of all the reliability scores including the use of batteries and without batteries.

It’s complete nonsense. The 777s have had at least 5 train faults causing cancellations today, and I’ve been past 3 with doors locked out. So that’s 8.

As I say I like them and don’t want to come across as being over critical. But the public are not silly we know the reliability is probably closer to 50 than 90

 

[Bertie the bus]

It’s complete nonsense. The 777s have had at least 5 train faults causing cancellations today, and I’ve been past 3 with doors locked out. So that’s 8.

I had a 5 min look at RTT yesterday and there were at least 6 failures causing cancellations then as well. There were also quite a few delays but I wasn't interested enough to check whether they were caused by the failures or other faults causing delay but not cancellation.

 

[Ribbleman]

As someone who thinks the 777s are good it’s a bit rough to be honest there. Particularly at when sitting on the seats where the carriages connect it’s really bouncy, and the only place I’ve noticed it. I’m not sure if this is masked to some extent on the 507s by the doors between carriages.

It’s a bit better if your in the middle of a carriage but noticeably more bouncy than the older units.

A journey last Thursday on a 777 confirmed that you certainly notice that you are on jointed track. The 507 suspension handles it rather more smoothly and with less noise as you pass over each joint.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

A journey last Thursday on a 777 confirmed that you certainly notice that you are on jointed track. The 507 suspension handles it rather more smoothly and with less noise as you pass over each joint.

As a regular user of 777s (Mon - Fri commute from Chester to James Street until TfW get their backsides in gear) I’ve found the overall experience of a 777 favourable to a 507/8. I haven’t noticed its any bouncier and the overall ambience of a 777 makes for a more pleasant journey overall.

 

[Sam 76]

As a regular user of 777s (Mon - Fri commute from Chester to James Street until TfW get their backsides in gear) I’ve found the overall experience of a 777 favourable to a 507/8. I haven’t noticed its any bouncier and the overall ambience of a 777 makes for a more pleasant journey overall.

To be honest, the only place it is noticeable is that 0.5 mile stretch leaving Formby. Other than that they handle the rest of the network quite smoothly I find

 

[childwallblues]

As a regular user of 777s (Mon - Fri commute from Chester to James Street until TfW get their backsides in gear) I’ve found the overall experience of a 777 favourable to a 507/8. I haven’t noticed its any bouncier and the overall ambience of a 777 makes for a more pleasant journey overall.

TfW hourly service is bck next Monday I am told

 

[FrodshamJnct]

TfW hourly service is bck next Monday I am told

Fingers crossed!

 

[TheHSRailFan]

It’s complete nonsense. The 777s have had at least 5 train faults causing cancellations today, and I’ve been past 3 with doors locked out. So that’s 8.

As I say I like them and don’t want to come across as being over critical. But the public are not silly we know the reliability is probably closer to 50 than 90

in my defense, I don't really look at the MR Twitter or look on RTT that much because I live south in the country. I recall a website that was a metric showing every delay, cancellation and on-time service of each rail operator each day but I forgot.

 

[Bertie the bus]

in my defense, I don't really look at the MR Twitter or look on RTT that much because I live south in the country. I recall a website that was a metric showing every delay, cancellation and on-time service of each rail operator each day but I forgot.

You also have politicians in the south. The reason for the mayor's latest statements about how great they are is because today is the first anniversary of them entering service. No politician responsible for public transport is going to say 'Well, that didn't go very well', He is glossing over the problems and setting out a bright new future because he is a politician. It is simple as that, and also the fact only a small percentage of the population of Merseyside regularly use Merseyrail so they won't particularly be aware of all the problems anyway.

 

[Sam 76]

in my defense, I don't really look at the MR Twitter or look on RTT that much because I live south in the country. I recall a website that was a metric showing every delay, cancellation and on-time service of each rail operator each day but I forgot.

I wasn’t referring to you with the nonsense comment don’t worry and my apologies if you thought that . More so the Mayor who seems to go missing when things go wrong