Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[Sam 76]

The 4 8car diagrams should be out from start of service, in service all day until after the evening peak.

Yep they do tend to stay out as pairs. What’s quite good is that if the football is on like last night they leave them out until the end of the diagram. A huge improvement on a few weeks ago even

 

[MR-507508]

I was at Sandhills 14:09 - 15:47 so possibly too early if the 8cars are only during peak hours. As I saw two 8cars then maybe they got formed up early morning or came out of a depot/siding already formed as 8cars. If RTT alluded to the unit numbers life would be so much easier - but where is the challenge and intrigue in that !.

I believe RTT have reached out to Merseyrail about engaging with the 'Know Your Train' feature of their site but Merseyrail do not want to engage with this.

What I haven't worked out yet, that is looking at RTT, is how and when the Southport services change to 8 car. This assumes that they don't start as 8. Judging by what you said 2 sets are already 8 car but earlier threads seem to imply 4 sets at peak times. I could not find any movement off Kirkdale or Southport at peak times to allow doubling up. It may not happen every day of course so I may have picked a wrong day!

As I understand at present, 2 of the Southport diagrams are booked to be worked by 8 Cars from start until end of service, ending with 2S66 and 2S67.
The other 2 Southport diagrams which are booked to be worked by an 8 Car from start of service but scheduled (according to RTT) to finish early evening, after working 2S44 and 2S53, presumably splitting down with one of the units continuing as a 4 car until end of service.
Tuesday and Wednesday this week has seen 4 x 8 Cars on the Southport line. Only 2 x 8 Cars today though.

 

[KevinTurvey]

Passing Kirkdale today were a number of bogies outside the shed (extreme south east side) which I've not seen before. Are bogie/wheelset overhauls/swaps already required at such a low mileage, or perhaps are they from the damaged unit dragged by accident at last being repaired?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Passing Kirkdale today were a number of bogies outside the shed (extreme south east side) which I've not seen before. Are bogie/wheelset overhauls/swaps already required at such a low mileage, or perhaps are they from the damaged unit dragged by accident at last being repaired?

I think it was 777035 that was stopped requiring replacement wheelsets (damage acquired during delivery aiui).

 

[childwallblues]

I think it was 777035 that was stopped requiring replacement wheelsets (damage acquired during delivery aiui).

It was 777035 .

 

[DJH1971]

It was 777035 .

And what progress (if any) has been made on the repairs?

 

[FrontSideBus]

It's a shame they removed the feature that let you "pre-select" the doors to open as soon as the guard has unlocked them. I actually thought that was quite a neat feature IMO.
My observation on these new trains is that the seats are too narrow and you often see coaches where only one seat on each side is occupied with the rest of the passengers preferring to stand because they'd not like to get that close to total stranger. They are also quite firm and going from Chester to Liverpool, or Liverpool to Southport is a bit grim on the old backside.
As mentioned before the gap between the window and the wood effect panel soon gets completely filled with rubbish and other sorts of nasty. Quite why they chose something like that is beyond me!
The slope up over the Jacobs bogies always seem to catch people out and it's not uncommon to see a lot of people stumbling!

 

[Vinnym]

It's a shame they removed the feature that let you "pre-select" the doors to open as soon as the guard has unlocked them. I actually thought that was quite a neat feature IMO.

Does the guard actually release the doors on arrival at stations? The reason I is ask is that whilst travelling from Liverpool Central to Old Roan a few days ago, I was sitting in the rear carriage facing forwards. The guard spent all the journey from Moorfields onwards sitting on the seat by the door using his mobile phone, only getting up at every station en route. Didn’t really pay much attention until we were getting off and we were able to open the door before he got out of his seat.
Another observation made that day was whilst waiting for our train at Central, a train heading towards Hunts Cross was stopped and I noticed that the guard spent most of the dwell actual standing on the retractable level boarding plate. Considering the problems they have had with these doors it seemed a very foolish thing to be doing.

 

[507 001]

Does the guard actually release the doors on arrival at stations? The reason I is ask is that whilst travelling from Liverpool Central to Old Roan a few days ago, I was sitting in the rear carriage facing forwards. The guard spent all the journey from Moorfields onwards sitting on the seat by the door using his mobile phone, only getting up at every station en route. Didn’t really pay much attention until we were getting off and we were able to open the door before he got out of his seat.
Another observation made that day was whilst waiting for our train at Central, a train heading towards Hunts Cross was stopped and I noticed that the guard spent most of the dwell actual standing in the retractable level boarding plate. Considering the problems they have had with these doors it seemed a very foolish thing to be doing.

No, the driver does.

It has to be said that it’s the most ridiculous method of working since 10-bells.

It’s also interesting to note the mention of hesitant gap fillers. Not like that was predictable was it?

 

[Skie]

Standing on the sliding step stops the door from auto closing. They’re designed to be stood on with high volumes of traffic, so standing on them is fine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s also interesting to note the mention of hesitant gap fillers. Not like that was predictable was it?

There's no problem with them on Swiss/German FLIRTs, so I don't know what Merseyrail are doing differently.

 

[Class83]

It's a shame they removed the feature that let you "pre-select" the doors to open as soon as the guard has unlocked them. I actually thought that was quite a neat feature IMO.
My observation on these new trains is that the seats are too narrow and you often see coaches where only one seat on each side is occupied with the rest of the passengers preferring to stand because they'd not like to get that close to total stranger. They are also quite firm and going from Chester to Liverpool, or Liverpool to Southport is a bit grim on the old backside.
As mentioned before the gap between the window and the wood effect panel soon gets completely filled with rubbish and other sorts of nasty. Quite why they chose something like that is beyond me!
The slope up over the Jacobs bogies always seem to catch people out and it's not uncommon to see a lot of people stumbling!

The issue I find with the seats is that the sidewall curves under the window seat in a way that you have to twist your legs awkwardly to sit there, this may be a downside of the level boarding that the carriage is narrower at floor level. They are close together, but that's a valid design choice to maximise standing capacity given there aren't enough units to run 8 car during rush hour.

 

[Meerkat]

There's no problem with them on Swiss/German FLIRTs, so I don't know what Merseyrail are doing differently.

It’s the internal floor over the step flexing that is the problem isn’t it?
Dont know why that should be different in Liverpool - they aren’t significantly heavier than Germans are they?!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s the internal floor over the step flexing that is the problem isn’t it?

Yes, there's a problem with that.

Dont know why that should be different in Liverpool - they aren’t significantly heavier than Germans are they?!

Doubt it with all that Bier und Wurst. And it isn't an issue on the Greater Anglia units, is it?

Could it be something to do with FLIRT features being used on the METRO platform? Perhaps different floor construction? The Merseyrail units do appear, while on the METRO platform, to be a bit of a FLIRT-METRO hybrid using what look much more like FLIRT components for a lot of things, whereas the 555 looks more "pure" METRO, more like the Berlin units which started the platform off.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

No, the driver does.

It has to be said that it’s the most ridiculous method of working since 10-bells.

It’s also interesting to note the mention of hesitant gap fillers. Not like that was predictable was it?

It's not a problem on GA's FLIRTs

 

[507016]

I’m lucky enough not to have been on a failed 777, but I’ve seen enough fail

 

[FrontSideBus]

I've noticed that on a lot of units, the main LED lighting is starting to fail already. You can clearly see where individual LED modules have failed and some whole strips are operating at reduced brightness.
Not looking good for long term longevity tbh.

 

[Pacef8]

I did see a man the other day going through the train fault finding for buttons and lights and screens etc.

 

[Prime586]

I've noticed that on a lot of units, the main LED lighting is starting to fail already. You can clearly see where individual LED modules have failed and some whole strips are operating at reduced brightness.
Not looking good for long term longevity tbh.

That is a result of either cheap LED modules, inadequate cooling or cheap/poorly designed driver modules that are not regulating the supply current properly.

---

One of my colleagues is a displaced Scot who lives in Southport, and whenever Celtic have got a televised game he travels to a Celtic-friendly pub in Liverpool to watch it by train (as he's now got his bus pass). On Tuesday he came to watch the game against Bayern. The 8-car 777 made it a couple of minutes outside Southport and ground to a halt. They then sat there for 15 minutes while attempting a restart, got going again, and then stopped again shortly afterwards for another 5 minutes.


He was in the rearmost car and got talking to the guard while they were waiting to get going again. The guard said the new trains were an embarrassment and he was fed up having to apologise to irate passengers when they break down. As it turned out, it only made it as far as Sandhills as there was a signal failure at Central so they got decanted onto an RRB.


It was his first time riding in the back end of an 8-car, and he observed that the ride was 'like being in the last car on a rollercoaster'. He also noticed that some of the interior lighting was on the blink.

 

[Mikey C]

Lets hope they're working more reliably by the time Everton move into their new stadium in August...

 

[The_Train]

Lets hope they're working more reliably by the time Everton move into their new stadium in August...

Based on images (and general feedback on twitter) I saw, the units are going to be the least of the problems for the new stadium. Sandhills station is going to be the biggest problem as it didn't handle the test event of 10,000 fans very well at all and that is less than 1/5th of the total capacity

 

[Ribbleman]

The current railway infrastructure at Sandhills will not be able to cope with the demand from a crowd of over 50,000 people, nearly all of whom will leave the stadium at the same time, many expecting to use the railway. There are not enough 777s to make all trains 8-car and Sandhills station was never designed to cope with crowds of any size. Even if the size of the fleet was to be increased, the station would require massive investment to provide loops and 4 platforms. Older readers may remember that Sandhills once had 4 rather narrow platforms but today’s safety requirements would mean widening the site to accomplish this. Very expensive and most unlikely to happen.
What is required is a network of bus services on matchdays, covering locations on a 5-10 mile radius of the ground, plus the Wirral, leaving the railway to cater for those from further afield and the not match-going passengers.

 

[LPJOHN]

The current railway infrastructure at Sandhills will not be able to cope with the demand from a crowd of over 50,000 people, nearly all of whom will leave the stadium at the same time, many expecting to use the railway. There are not enough 769s to make all trains 8-car and Sandhills station was never designed to cope with crowds of any size. Even if the size of the fleet was to be increased, the station would require massive investment to provide loops and 4 platforms. Older readers may remember that Sandhills once had 4 rather narrow platforms but today’s safety requirements would mean widening the site to accomplish this. Very expensive and most unlikely to happen.
What is required is a network of bus services on matchdays, covering locations on a 5-10 mile radius of the ground, plus the Wirral, leaving the railway to cater for those from further afield and the not match-going passengers.

I think you mean 777 and not 769.

 

[Kite159]

I can sense Sandhills being interchange only post kickball games at that new stadium. It was rammed this afternoon due to issues on the Southport line.

I saw 777148 had a hissy fit around 13;30 with one round trip to Headbolt Lane cancelled and the 14;30 to Headbolt cancelled (with the unit running ECS).

 

[Meerkat]

Even if the size of the fleet was to be increased, the station would require massive investment to provide loops and 4 platforms. Older readers may remember that Sandhills once had 4 rather narrow platforms but today’s safety requirements would mean widening the site to accomplish this. Very expensive and most unlikely to happen.

Build a new platform to the east of the line for city bound, leaving the island for outbound trains with a fence against the city bound line for extra safety.
There is the reversing siding to the south so empty trains could be sent north. What is the capacity of a full and standing 777?

 

[Ribbleman]

I think you mean 777 and not 769.

Thanks. Now corrected. Heaven forbid an entire fleet of 769s!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not a problem on GA's FLIRTs

I do wonder if the METRO platform has a different floor structure into which they have been bodged? The Berlin units don't have them.

 

[Northerngirl]

Build a new platform to the east of the line for city bound, leaving the island for outbound trains with a fence against the city bound line for extra safety.
There is the reversing siding to the south so empty trains could be sent north. What is the capacity of a full and standing 777?

If they are building new platforms, may away get Vauxhall biult, have Sandhills for northbound & Vauxhall southbound

 

[MR-507508]

Is 777003 back in service yet?
I saw a picture earlier this week at Maghull Station, working on the Ormskirk line but couldn't make out the unit number to confirm.

 

[73001]

The current railway infrastructure at Sandhills will not be able to cope with the demand from a crowd of over 50,000 people, nearly all of whom will leave the stadium at the same time, many expecting to use the railway. There are not enough 777s to make all trains 8-car and Sandhills station was never designed to cope with crowds of any size. Even if the size of the fleet was to be increased, the station would require massive investment to provide loops and 4 platforms. Older readers may remember that Sandhills once had 4 rather narrow platforms but today’s safety requirements would mean widening the site to accomplish this. Very expensive and most unlikely to happen.
What is required is a network of bus services on matchdays, covering locations on a 5-10 mile radius of the ground, plus the Wirral, leaving the railway to cater for those from further afield and the not match-going passengers.

Buses will be running from Bramley Moore to Bootle Strand (for trains northbound, buses all over the North of the city and 2 multistorey car parks), to Lime Street for trains and to Liverpool ONE for buses East and South. I expect it'll take a while for people to find their preferred route.