Metrocar updates and withdrawals - Tyne & Wear Metro

[Stepford Guy]

if the news is true, does anyone know what time 4083 will be going for scrap tomorrow as i would like to be able to see it in person

 

[DustyBin]

There's several scrapyards in that area. Does anyone know which one it was?

I was in that area on Tuesday, if I’d known I could have had a look around!

As you say there are quite a few, but if what @Class91Joe said is true about most them going to the same place, it probably narrows it down as not many have space to take Metrocars en masse. The former Tomlinson (then EMR, now something else IIRC) site at Shildon is one possibility. Denham’s is quite small but does have a lot of equipment (including a small shredder!) so could be a possibility if they can process them quickly enough. I’m curious myself now!

 

[Stepford Guy]

4083 has went to the scrap yard

 

[kez19]

Asking this as an outsider (I used the Metro last Thursday on visit can't remember the carriages I was on), with the pictures posted of some of these going to scrap (or preservation), do they have enough to carry the service or will Nexus have to adjust the timetable?

 

[bramling]

Asking this as an outsider (I used the Metro last Thursday on visit can't remember the carriages I was on), with the pictures posted of some of these going to scrap (or preservation), do they have enough to carry the service or will Nexus have to adjust the timetable?

They have already had to heavily reduce the service, and nonetheless struggle to deliver the slimmed down timetable without cancellations.

It is outwardly rather strange to be scrapping a metrocar which was not only in service fairly recently (as recently as the early summer) but also a fairly solid performer. Indeed 4083 seemed to slip out of service rather suddenly. One issue with this one is that it was rather unpopular with drivers.

 

[Volvictof]

They have already had to heavily reduce the service, and nonetheless struggle to deliver the slimmed down timetable without cancellations.

It is outwardly rather strange to be scrapping a metrocar which was not only in service fairly recently (as recently as the early summer) but also a fairly solid performer. Indeed 4083 seemed to slip out of service rather suddenly. One issue with this one is that it was rather unpopular with drivers.

Yeah the service is only going to get worse. Scrapping the peak shorts initially helped but now I can foresee a major timetable change on he horizon.
With regards to 83 Stadler will only be scrapping it if absolutely necessary. It has most likely been pilfered for all is full parts and I believe there is some major structural issues with it. Plus it’s one of the in refurbished cars so spare parts will be unobtanium.

 

[kez19]

They have already had to heavily reduce the service, and nonetheless struggle to deliver the slimmed down timetable without cancellations.

It is outwardly rather strange to be scrapping a metrocar which was not only in service fairly recently (as recently as the early summer) but also a fairly solid performer. Indeed 4083 seemed to slip out of service rather suddenly. One issue with this one is that it was rather unpopular with drivers.

In terms of timetable adjustment, I am guessing they could adjust the services to 15 mins (extreme maybe 20-30 mins?), I am saying extreme as possibly worst case scenario.

I like the Metro when I have used it but agree on comments though in terms of updating the carriages.

I may as well ask this as it bugged me (not in a bad way), there is a junction I think its after Jarrow there is a cross section (correct me people locally here), one goes to I think Hebburn and the other is Sunderland, does the Metro still stop at that junction to let the other one through or are they now able to run without stopping? (the junction goes slightly uphill then on a slope to Hebburn then if Sunderland it slips down too).

 

[Trestrol]

Scrapping the worst metro cars or the ones stopped for a long time helps with storage. There is only so much siding space for delivery of the new units so the more no hopers they can get rid of the quicker deliveries from Switzerland can happen.

 

[Paul_10]

Yeah the service is only going to get worse. Scrapping the peak shorts initially helped but now I can foresee a major timetable change on he horizon.
With regards to 83 Stadler will only be scrapping it if absolutely necessary. It has most likely been pilfered for all is full parts and I believe there is some major structural issues with it. Plus it’s one of the in refurbished cars so spare parts will be unobtanium.

Unless reducing the timetable is going to help with fleet availability then there is no benefit in reducing the service further, it will just inconvience more passengers than say a service being cancelled.

It just feels when things were improving, it goes downhill again and we are now going to into a very difficult period. Hopefully the new units will come into play next year and maybe things can improve.

 

[kez19]

Unless reducing the timetable is going to help with fleet availability then there is no benefit in reducing the service further, it will just inconvience more passengers than say a service being cancelled.

It just feels when things were improving, it goes downhill again and we are now going to into a very difficult period. Hopefully the new units will come into play next year and maybe things can improve.

That was the thing, I was kinda hyped when I heard back in March of this year (sources at time be BBC Look North/ITV Tyne Tees), about some of them coming online about November/December but reading since thats its fell back to next year is a shame as its just a pity they couldn't interwork with existing fleet (if it was possible?)

 

[Paul_10]

That was the thing, I was kinda hyped when I heard back in March of this year (sources at time be BBC Look North/ITV Tyne Tees), about some of them coming online about November/December but reading since thats its fell back to next year is a shame as its just a pity they couldn't interwork with existing fleet (if it was possible?)

Nothing to suggest they can't work with the current fleet, they are going to have too really. The delays was always looking likely considering as far as I'm aware there has been no daytime testing occuring.

How did 4083 get to Howdon? Was it dragged via a battery loco or by other metrocars again? Just seems from the pics there is no other metrocars around by the looks of it.

 

[Class91Joe]

Nothing to suggest they can't work with the current fleet, they are going to have too really. The delays was always looking likely considering as far as I'm aware there has been no daytime testing occuring.

How did 4083 get to Howdon? Was it dragged via a battery loco or by other metrocars again? Just seems from the pics there is no other metrocars around by the looks of it.

4042 and 4049 were on grim reaper duties today. 4083 was sandwiched in between them for the run from Gosforth down to Howdon. They left the depot at around 9:55am vice 9am.

Here's some photos of how 4002 ended up. Apparently, from arriving around 16:00 on Tuesday, the whole car was completely destroyed by the same time on Wednesday. It's really surprised me how fast they got on with it!

 

[kez19]

Nothing to suggest they can't work with the current fleet, they are going to have too really. The delays was always looking likely considering as far as I'm aware there has been no daytime testing occuring.

How did 4083 get to Howdon? Was it dragged via a battery loco or by other metrocars again? Just seems from the pics there is no other metrocars around by the looks of it.

I would have thought they be at least daytime runnings with the new fleet or at least a mix between day and night testings, unless they have confidence with the night tests it go to plan to run on days?

 

[Paul_10]

Nice too see some photos of a scrapped metrocar especially the interior one with it being partly destroyed.

I'm assuming 4040 is the next one to go and surely 4010 and 4076 must be nearly ready to go also.

 

[Class91Joe]

Nice too see some photos of a scrapped metrocar especially the interior one with it being partly destroyed.

I'm assuming 4040 is the next one to go and surely 4010 and 4076 must be nearly ready to go also.

Yes I believe 40 is next to go, it shouldn't be too long. They have left the ramp at Howdon depot which they use to winch the cars up and onto the low loaders so that's a pretty good indicator that there's more to go yet. I think all of the cars on the avoiding line will be heading off at some point soon as they have all had at least some parts taken off them and they are getting really desperate to make room for the new units now. I've heard rumours there could potentially even be 10?! ready and waiting to be delivered.

 

[ModernRailways]

I may as well ask this as it bugged me (not in a bad way), there is a junction I think its after Jarrow there is a cross section (correct me people locally here), one goes to I think Hebburn and the other is Sunderland, does the Metro still stop at that junction to let the other one through or are they now able to run without stopping? (the junction goes slightly uphill then on a slope to Hebburn then if Sunderland it slips down too).

I believe you’re talking about Pelaw junction. If so, trains travelling towards Hebburn now no longer need to wait on the curve if the train from Hebburn (South Shields) is late as they line is dual track and no longer single track. Metro Flow is the project name, and you can find some information more about it.

That was the thing, I was kinda hyped when I heard back in March of this year (sources at time be BBC Look North/ITV Tyne Tees), about some of them coming online about November/December but reading since thats its fell back to next year is a shame as its just a pity they couldn't interwork with existing fleet (if it was possible?)

I’m not 100% on the finer details, but I believe the plan is to still have a passenger service using the new train in 2023. It will likely be more of a token service for PR purposes to say they did follow through and get a new train in service in 2023 as promised.
The new fleet will be interworking with the current fleet (if there’s any trains left working) otherwise we would need a full system shutdown.

4083 has went to the scrap yard

It’s a real shame to see this, and 02, go off to the scrap yard. Especially as 83 was fine when I was there, along with 40. I can only guess that either they’ve developed a fault and it’s been decided instead of fixing to just grab every part possible to make something else work, or if it is just a case of get rid. I can’t imagine it’ll be long till 40 is gone, and it may be likely that any units that are definitely not going to be returning to service are now just sent for scrap to free up a load of room. It would also mean maintenance teams can purely focus on a smaller micro fleet and especially with any colder weather keep the working units indoors - without going into any detail for the vandals, outstabling in tunnels might be very helpful this winter.

 

[DustyBin]

4042 and 4049 were on grim reaper duties today. 4083 was sandwiched in between them for the run from Gosforth down to Howdon. They left the depot at around 9:55am vice 9am.

Here's some photos of how 4002 ended up. Apparently, from arriving around 16:00 on Tuesday, the whole car was completely destroyed by the same time on Wednesday. It's really surprised me how fast they got on with it!

I still can’t make out the location definitively from those photos, but it could be Denham’s? If so, as per my previous comment it’s not a big site, so they’ll need to be processed quickly.

 

[Trestrol]

There are four new sidings being laid but won't be wired and finished until January/February. Nexus probably want the avoiding road back so it can be fenced off from the rest of the depot. Room left for a second avoiding line to be laid.

 

[phillogie@tisc]

In the Nexus press release about the final demolition work being completed at the former Gosforth Metro Depot, 17th July, it mentioned 'A total of 17 new sidings for train stabling will be created to serve the new depot, and provide room for the new trains to be parked up as more start to arrive from the Stadler factory in Switzerland.' I presume many of these actually replaced existing sidings that were removed during construction of the new depot, or did they actually mean sidings to stable 17 trains?

I've had a chance to observe which Metro units were in service today, with 54 different ones being noted. There were a few cancelled services and a couple of set swaps. Rather than list them all, these are the ones I haven't seen today 03, 14, 23, 27, 30, 33, 37, 49, 51, 54, 59, 72, 79, 81 & 85. Both 59 & 79 are noted as under attention. The others noted as under attention i.e. 46, 48, 58 & 84 were in service today.

 

[Julia]

I visited the depot today to see what was stored on the avoiding line.

From the Longbenton end the line up is 4002, 4076, 4060, 4010, 4001, 4077, 4080, 4061 & 4064

Took a wander up myself today, 4002 is gone as noted above, as is 4064, and 4037 is now where 4064 presumably was. The local "artists" have moved in fast.

Still after 4003/14/25/49/59 plus stored 4070 - looking at the diagram numbers it appears there are only 56 cars scheduled to be in service in the peak (12x2 green, 16x2 yellow) and even then five diagrams were missing at times today with some >30 minute gaps.

 

[kez19]

I believe you’re talking about Pelaw junction. If so, trains travelling towards Hebburn now no longer need to wait on the curve if the train from Hebburn (South Shields) is late as they line is dual track and no longer single track. Metro Flow is the project name, and you can find some information more about it.


I’m not 100% on the finer details, but I believe the plan is to still have a passenger service using the new train in 2023. It will likely be more of a token service for PR purposes to say they did follow through and get a new train in service in 2023 as promised.
The new fleet will be interworking with the current fleet (if there’s any trains left working) otherwise we would need a full system shutdown.

Thats the junction, I always get mixed up when I used the service but yes when I was down last week I was trying to remember the junction but only knew it headed either Hebburn or Sunderland, I was aware of Metro Flow but that now answers that question and thats at least good this has happened.

I be surprised if it is even for PR couple of them enter service before the end of this year, that is a bit of a positive to at least have the current and new fleet work together, I did think it be a bit stupid to take the current fleet off if they haven't got enough of the new set to run with.

 

[Tramfan]

In the Nexus press release about the final demolition work being completed at the former Gosforth Metro Depot, 17th July, it mentioned 'A total of 17 new sidings for train stabling will be created to serve the new depot, and provide room for the new trains to be parked up as more start to arrive from the Stadler factory in Switzerland.' I presume many of these actually replaced existing sidings that were removed during construction of the new depot, or did they actually mean sidings to stable 17 trains?

I've had a chance to observe which Metro units were in service today, with 54 different ones being noted. There were a few cancelled services and a couple of set swaps. Rather than list them all, these are the ones I haven't seen today 03, 14, 23, 27, 30, 33, 37, 49, 51, 54, 59, 72, 79, 81 & 85. Both 59 & 79 are noted as under attention. The others noted as under attention i.e. 46, 48, 58 & 84 were in service today.

27 and 85 are in service today too

 

[35B]

It’s a real shame to see this, and 02, go off to the scrap yard. Especially as 83 was fine when I was there, along with 40. I can only guess that either they’ve developed a fault and it’s been decided instead of fixing to just grab every part possible to make something else work, or if it is just a case of get rid. I can’t imagine it’ll be long till 40 is gone, and it may be likely that any units that are definitely not going to be returning to service are now just sent for scrap to free up a load of room. It would also mean maintenance teams can purely focus on a smaller micro fleet and especially with any colder weather keep the working units indoors - without going into any detail for the vandals, outstabling in tunnels might be very helpful this winter.

In any fleet replacement, there will always be "good" items that get the chop because something breaks at the wrong time. I'd expect Nexus to be getting rid of the non-runners to help clear siding space before too many of the new units arrive, taking advantage of the fact that during the handover period availability will be supported by having fewer units out for major maintenance (old units being culled, new units not yet needing it).

The question is whether they can make the numbers balance during the handover as the age of the old units starts to tell.

 

[Julia]

Are they keeping a "screen" of units on the avoiding line to be sacrificed to the vandals, perhaps?

 

[Tramfan]

The units on the avoiding line will be there pretty much because they're longer term out of use and are being kept there out of the way to free up space in the main depot.

 

[rob_archer]

What are the chances of being able to secure some parts as salavage?
Wouldnt mind one of the door panels and i think someone else i know wanted the moquette material from the seats. Not sure what the protocol would be for requesting/purchasing those.

 

[ModernRailways]

What are the chances of being able to secure some parts as salavage?
Wouldnt mind one of the door panels and i think someone else i know wanted the moquette material from the seats. Not sure what the protocol would be for requesting/purchasing those.

Send an email to Nexus/Metro and they might be able to help you out.

 

[Trestrol]

Nexus are no longer do donating old units to community groups. So it appears 4001 and 4020 will be the only two preserved. Although there has be talk of Nexus keeping a few units to work the Porridge train.

BBC News - Tyne and Wear Metro cars to be scrapped instead of donated

Tyne and Wear Metro cars to be scrapped instead of donated

Nexus, which runs the Tyne and Wear Metro, says it is too complex and costly to save the trains.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JordR]

How has the network handled Babet yesterday and today?

 

[DunsBus]

Yeah the service is only going to get worse. Scrapping the peak shorts initially helped but now I can foresee a major timetable change on he horizon.
With regards to 83 Stadler will only be scrapping it if absolutely necessary. It has most likely been pilfered for all is full parts and I believe there is some major structural issues with it. Plus it’s one of the in refurbished cars so spare parts will be unobtanium.

Wasn't 83 the one which T-boned PTE Atlantean 120 at Brunton Lane back in 1983?