• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

MML Electrification: progress updates

ABB125

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2016
Messages
3,817
Location
University of Birmingham
Just to move a workstation within an ROC costs 300k+.
Out of interest, why is this?
Bearing in mind that I have never been in a ROC (or indeed other signalling facility), I would have thought that one of the benefits of modern computerised (or, perhaps, computer controlled) signalling is that the actual signalling control and processing can be done by a server rack or two in the basement, then upstairs on the operating floor you simply have a "portal" to access the system, with the two linked by (probably) a fibre cable. This setup would essentially mean that you can move your workstation to anywhere (at very little cost), as long as you can run a cable to the server rack in the basement. Is this not the case?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,538
Location
Between Peterborough & Bedlington
Looks like a few of the headspans between Harlington and Flitwick are awaiting removal, as they’ve had all span-wires removed. It’s just the metal posts which remain. These have been replaced by portals.
Those would seem to be a handful in the Westoning area, which, IIRC, are part of a separate scheme to replace failing structures along the first 50 miles of MML.
That being said, those particular portals are getting anti-fall BWAs on the Fasts as part of OLE125, so there must have been a tie-in somewhere.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,502
Out of interest, why is this?
Bearing in mind that I have never been in a ROC (or indeed other signalling facility), I would have thought that one of the benefits of modern computerised (or, perhaps, computer controlled) signalling is that the actual signalling control and processing can be done by a server rack or two in the basement, then upstairs on the operating floor you simply have a "portal" to access the system, with the two linked by (probably) a fibre cable. This setup would essentially mean that you can move your workstation to anywhere (at very little cost), as long as you can run a cable to the server rack in the basement. Is this not the case?

Standards require every signalling function to be ‘through tested’ from the point of control to the equioment on the ground. If the control equipment is moved, the whole lot must be retested.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
25,212
Location
Nottingham
Standards require every signalling function to be ‘through tested’ from the point of control to the equioment on the ground. If the control equipment is moved, the whole lot must be retested.
This is one area where the standards haven't kept up with technology. The workstation is essentially off-the-shelf IT equipment and its failure modes are totally different from hardwired functions on the ground or even the geographic data within the systems themselves.
 

Nicholas Lewis

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
6,294
Location
Surrey
Makes no sense at all in this day and age of modern signalling. It is only St Pancras High Level (East Midlands four Platforms) that returns to West Hampstead. The Low Level (TBROC Core Central) remains at TBROC, and HS1 stays at Ashford IECC. Sense, doesn't enter into it. St Pan HL has been operated by TBROC for over seven years with no operating issues between WH & TBROC or even Controls, TOCs or station with the Signallers being able to fully focus on St Pan HL as generally the Core Section, an up and down railway doesn't require too much attention and when there is, Signallers are experienced enough to cope with both. Besides St Pan HL is only four platforms, doesn't take much attention to run it. The TOC doesn't help by insisting on keep right platforms. If we did that at Charing Cross, six platforms, the station would grind to a halt.

Makes no difference where an area is controlled from when you have a workstation environment. Often Signallers will talk between workstations on operating floor by telephone because it is just not practical to shout at your colleagues on other workstations. So picking up a phone to talk to another box is the same. Moving St Pan HL, has no operational, financial gain what-so-ever. It has cost a fortune in redesigning workstations, involving Siemens which isn't cheap. Just to move a workstation within an ROC costs 300k+. To redesign, move to a totally different location, retrain and employ extra staff at the new location, meanwhile retain the grade 9 signallers at TBROC to operate half a work station, where is the sense? From my observation whilst working at TBROC, there was probably a handful of telephones a shift between WH and TBROC. Talking to NWR Control means calling Derby Control, to call Electrical Control means calling York ECO, to talk to St Pan HL Station Control mean calling London. Almost forgot, York ROC for anything going onto the Eastern via Canal Tunnels, and Ashford IECC regarding bits of their connecting infrastructure. Still going to be the same at West Hampstead. How do Signallers in a workstation environment observe trains in other areas, not by an overview, which West Hampstead no longer has, but by a separate Screen displaying CCF or TMIS to see where trains are, effectively individuals in individual boxes, remember those LOL.

A spare workstation sat at TBROC for years waiting for West Hampstead to come to TBROC. But like all projects on the railways, nothing is carried out until it ultimate completion. Some new boss comes in with their own ideas and other plans get shoved aside. In this case, Andrew Haines comes in. West Hampstead whilst originally envisaged going to TBROC, with Kings Cross, so the Thameslink Route was under one route, along come other manager who then use their weight. Kings Cross shouldn't go to TBROC, fourty miles is too far. LOL they ended up moving it to York ROC ( nearly 200 miles away) with the loss of the majority of its skilled Signallers who didn't want to move north. Mr Haines, hearing that West Hampstead was now going to East Midlands ROC, stopped it saying no the skill base is here in the south, it ain't moving. Meanwhile he lets the skill base at Kings Cross go, many on severance pay. I was at London Bridge ASC, one of the thirteen planned boxes on the Southern under British Rail, that never got completed either. London Bridge under Thameslink originally was planned to go in a new "City Control Centre" at Ewer Street (yeap even had a name). It was roughly where today's Network Rail London Bridge MDU is. All existing staff, 60 Signallers would migrate there as it is less than a mile from LBASC. Plans, architects were all paid for and completed. Then we got a new boss/company. Thameslink Programme stalled because of issues with people of Borough Market. When the project restarted, new managers, new project people came along and a new National Plan ROCS! Several places were muted for the Thameslink ROC, and TBROC came about. 12 signallers out of 60 migrated to TBROC from LBASC. We were told by project managers that there would be a lot less Signallers needed at TBROC. Today there are 70 Signallers controlling the same area at TBROC that LBASC covered. But they paid the LBASC skill base off with severance, gave them new jobs in similar, lower grade or different positions. Meanwhile, TBROC has had a huge learning curve and had to recruit and train 58 Signallers in the same grade, with out the skill base the original 60 had. Makes sense!

Can you see, I have experienced this. Worse under Privatisation. But none of it makes sense. Until the railway can pull together again, work as one, then maybe they will stop wasting money like moving St Pan HL from TBROC to WH. Meanwhile they try to go on about the 21st Century Digital Railway. LOL we still have 19th Century technology being used, with Signallers still tapping out bell code out to each other. A technology that was invented because no other communication existed between boxes, the telephone was not around. Perhaps someone should tell the railway that telephones exist, people carry them in their pocket ( well in the hands most of the time). Then maybe they will get rid of 19th Century technology and also realise, it doesn't matter where a Signalling Control Area is based today.
It a bit off topic but a great insight into the nonsense that is the modern railway no wonder its become so expensive. Worthy of its own thread.
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,892
Location
Leeds
Press release


Major upgrade work as part of the Midland Main Line Upgrade project is set to continue into January and February with improvements to be made to overhead line equipment on selected weekends.

Network Rail engineers will be working south of Bedford to improve current overhead line equipment, alongside work to continue to electrify the section of line between Kettering and Wigston.

The two projects will mean that passengers will be able to experience more reliable, faster, quieter, and greener journeys on new electric and bi-mode trains in the future.

Gavin Crook, Principal Programme Sponsor for Network Rail’s East Midlands route, said: “This work is vital in improving the journeys of passengers as they travel by train on the Midland Main Line. The work being carried out near Bedford and the electrification of the line between Kettering and Wigston means journeys will be more reliable, quicker, more frequent, and greener too.

“We always try and deliver work at less disruptive times for passengers and a lot of this period of work is overnight because of that.

“We want to thank passengers for their patience and understanding while these major upgrades are carried out and encourage them to check before travelling.”

On the weekends of 20/21 January and 10/11 February, buses will replace late night Saturday and early morning Sunday trains between Luton and Bedford. Train services will run as normal until 23.40 on Saturday nights and from 08.00 on the Sunday mornings with buses replacing timetabled trains in between.

This is to allow engineers to upgrade overhead line equipment south of Bedford to allow new trains to run at 125mph in the future.

Throughout the weekend of Saturday 27 and Sunday 28 January, buses will replace trains between Bedford and Luton with a train shuttle service between London St Pancras and Luton, calling at Luton Airport Parkway.

An amended East Midlands Railway northbound service will start from Bedford over the weekend, and on Saturday 28 (only) Thameslink’s usual Bedford to Horsham services will only run between London Bridge and Horsham.

On Sunday 4 February, the Kettering to Wigston electrification project means that no trains will call at Market Harborough, with a rail replacement bus service in place serving passengers between Leicester, Market Harborough and Kettering.

There also be a reduced train service from Sheffield and Nottingham to London St Pancras which will divert around the engineering work.

Passengers are encouraged to check their journeys before travelling throughout the affected weekends via National Rail Enquiries or their train operator.

Dave Meredith, Customer Services Director for EMR said: “We are encouraging customers planning to travel in January and February to plan their journeys in advance by checking for updates on the EMR website.
 

Flying Phil

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2016
Messages
1,962
There is still a wiring gap at Braybrooke. No supply to the wires to the South and no wires or insulators for 1/4 mile to the North.
DSC03337.JPGDSC03338.JPG
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,892
Location
Leeds
There is still a wiring gap at Braybrooke. No supply to the wires to the South and no wires or insulators for 1/4 mile to the North.
It makes sense to leave the vicinity of the feeder station to last! Whatever misunderstandings there may be, it's not going to make anywhere live if there are no wires near!

(Oops!I initially missed out the words "to make", so the sentence made no sense.)
 
Last edited:

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,414
Besides that particular bridge, which other examples are still in need of clearance work?
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
25,212
Location
Nottingham
I think this bridge is the vehicle access to the feeder station. In which case they probably don't want to close it until they've finished work there.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,713
I think this bridge is the vehicle access to the feeder station. In which case they probably don't want to close it until they've finished work there.
There was a separate access built to both NG and NR sites, comes in from the main road near the A6 over to the north west, you can see it at a very early stage of earthmoving on Google satellite view, initially it runs parallel to the tracks on the up side.
 

PJM

Member
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Messages
175
Location
Market Harborough
There is still a wiring gap at Braybrooke. No supply to the wires to the South and no wires or insulators for 1/4 mile to the North.
View attachment 150047View attachment 150049

Yes, and further north there is approximately one mile without wires and dangly bits between Kilby Bridge and South Wigston. Any news on Desborough? Last time I was there there were no wires around Co-op etc.

Also how is South Wigston SATS going to be connected as the wires finish a little south?
 

londonmidland

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2009
Messages
1,889
Location
Leicester
Got a letter today from Network Rail that they’re carrying out work nearby. Bonding installations - can anyone give out some information as to what this is please?

ELECTRIFYING THE MIDLAND MAIN LINE

I'm writing to let you know that as part of our continued programme to electrify the Midland Main Line, we need to carry out some essential work near your property.

We're carrying out bonding installations overnight from:

22:00 Saturday 10 February - 08:00 Sunday 11 February 2024

Our teams will also be using the land between Bennett Way and Wright Place as a track access location. This will be used intermittently between:

20:00 Thursday 01 February - 08:00 Friday 01 March 2024
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,713
Got a letter today from Network Rail that they’re carrying out work nearby. Bonding installations - can anyone give out some information as to what this is please?
Bonding is likely being used as shorthand for “traction and earth bonding”. It’s the various cables that make sure the traction return path is fully cross connected, and that all conductive metalwork is properly earthed for safety.

I‘d expect this shouldn’t be too noisy or too disruptive.
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
8,080
Location
Dalton GA USA & Preston Lancs
Bonding is likely being used as shorthand for “traction and earth bonding”. It’s the various cables that make sure the traction return path is fully cross connected, and that all conductive metalwork is properly earthed for safety.

I‘d expect this shouldn’t be too noisy or too disruptive.
There is a good section on this subject in Garry Keenor's book.
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,414
Another OHNS renewal last weekend - at Sundon this time. The slow line wire runs look to have been left alone (the associated original arcing horns and catenary wire run insulators are still there).

 

Attachments

  • 1706549570735.jpg
    1706549570735.jpg
    270 KB · Views: 120
  • 1706549572043.jpg
    1706549572043.jpg
    277.1 KB · Views: 120
  • 1706549572051.jpg
    1706549572051.jpg
    281.2 KB · Views: 122

londonmidland

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2009
Messages
1,889
Location
Leicester
Looks like the wires have now reached the most northern part of the OLE limits, just south of Blaby Road bridge.

Let’s hope Leicester north will see some progress soon.
 

londonmidland

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2009
Messages
1,889
Location
Leicester
Good news!

Any report on Braybrooke?
I wasn’t paying too much attention but I believe the wires are still yet to be put up here, as well as the ‘pointy bits’ positioned into place.

I think all the gantries and steelwork is in place.
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,538
Location
Between Peterborough & Bedlington

Nottingham59

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2019
Messages
1,801
Location
Nottingham
Has there been any news on 400kV grid connections north of Leicester? I understand they were planned for Ratcliffe-on-Soar and near Chesterfield. There was no obvious sign of works at the likely locations where the grid lines cross the MML near Ratcliffe, when I was last in the area.
 

Top