More National Express destinations axed

[Smethwickian]

More timetable changes on the National Express coach network from March 30th.

Services 481/484 between Suffolk, Essex and London are revised and streamlined. Service 541 and seasonal service 543 are withdrawn in the Lake District.

That means all of the following are wiped off the NX coach network map:
Arlesford, Brentwood, Clacton-on-Sea, Felixstowe, Jaywick, St Osyth, Thorrington, Trimley St Martin,
Trimley St Mary, Walton, Witham, Ambleside, Cockermouth, Distington, Galgate, Grasmere,
Kendal, Keswick, Lancaster University, Whitehaven, Windermere and Workington.

This follows changes last month which also saw the likes of Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby, Evesham, Stokenchurch and High Wycombe (Town Centre) lose their last services.

NX's bulletin to agents outlining these latest changes says it is investigating third-party options (through-ticketing on other buses) to 'serve' the Lake District. But as NX services to the likes of Lancaster, Penrith and Carlisle are themselves limited (Lancaster also losing out as part of the 541 withdrawal) this may not cater for many people.

It certainly seems these days NX is only National if you happen to live near a core network.

 

[overthewater]

This happened in Scotland 6 years ago With Citylink. Alas a more sreamline service does seem to work.

 

[jon0844]

I recall changes to the airport shuttles in London too, with routes cut and others modified to fill the gaps and presumably increasing journey times.

 

[Robertj21a]

More timetable changes on the National Express coach network from March 30th.

Services 481/484 between Suffolk, Essex and London are revised and streamlined. Service 541 and seasonal service 543 are withdrawn in the Lake District.

That means all of the following are wiped off the NX coach network map:
Arlesford, Brentwood, Clacton-on-Sea, Felixstowe, Jaywick, St Osyth, Thorrington, Trimley St Martin,
Trimley St Mary, Walton, Witham, Ambleside, Cockermouth, Distington, Galgate, Grasmere,
Kendal, Keswick, Lancaster University, Whitehaven, Windermere and Workington.

This follows changes last month which also saw the likes of Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby, Evesham, Stokenchurch and High Wycombe (Town Centre) lose their last services.

NX's bulletin to agents outlining these latest changes says it is investigating third-party options (through-ticketing on other buses) to 'serve' the Lake District. But as NX services to the likes of Lancaster, Penrith and Carlisle are themselves limited (Lancaster also losing out as part of the 541 withdrawal) this may not cater for many people.

It certainly seems these days NX is only National if you happen to live near a core network.

Sad, but I guess inevitable. The standard 'use it or lose it' and there were, presumably, too few passengers using those stops.

 

[darloscott]

The market for these once a day type routes to former resort hotspots is simply not there any more. They're better off focussing on their core city to city markets and Airports which do well.

 

[tbtc]

That means all of the following are wiped off the NX coach network map:
Arlesford, Brentwood, Clacton-on-Sea, Felixstowe, Jaywick, St Osyth, Thorrington, Trimley St Martin,
Trimley St Mary, Walton, Witham, Ambleside, Cockermouth, Distington, Galgate, Grasmere,
Kendal, Keswick, Lancaster University, Whitehaven, Windermere and Workington.

This follows changes last month which also saw the likes of Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby, Evesham, Stokenchurch and High Wycombe (Town Centre) lose their last services

Interesting - thanks for sharing.

I'm sure that it won't be long before someone is suggesting that a small town that cannot sustain a once-a-day coach service would be ideal for reinstating a heavy rail link though!

 

[Robertj21a]

Interesting - thanks for sharing.

I'm sure that it won't be long before someone is suggesting that a small town that cannot sustain a once-a-day coach service would be ideal for reinstating a heavy rail link though!

Very true ! - there's an incredible lack of awareness lurking amongst us.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting - thanks for sharing.

I'm sure that it won't be long before someone is suggesting that a small town that cannot sustain a once-a-day coach service would be ideal for reinstating a heavy rail link though!

That would be rather ignoring the busy half-hourly Stagecoach Gold bus service to Penrith, though, wouldn't it? Passengers would indeed probably be better served by connections. If they can get an agreement with Stagecoach for the 555 and 4x that'll solve most of that.

Your point more fits with a question as to whether Keswick or Windermere could justify a daily through service to/from London, and I'd agree no, it couldn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The market for these once a day type routes to former resort hotspots is simply not there any more. They're better off focussing on their core city to city markets and Airports which do well.

It probably sits with the railway adage of "if it's not worth serving it every two hours it might well not be worth serving it at all", which I certainly apply to small stations on busier routes.

 

[njlawley]

This was something discussed between a few of us at work earlier this week, and came up with a hypothetical prediction of what may happen to the network.

The plethora of one and two per day services are withdrawn, but replaced by a network of shorter but more frequent routes. For example, the services from the south coast to the Midlands and north may be replaced by a Poole/Bournemouth - Southampton - Oxford - Birmingham service running every 2 hours, and two shorter routes north from Birmingham to Manchester and Nottingham/Sheffield/Leeds to a similar frequency.

Even though people may need to change mid-route, much of this would sit in places where refreshment breaks are provided on through routes. Basically, there would be greater use of regional hubs like Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.

Less frequent extensions and variations would be withdrawn to simplify routes, with through ticketing onto local routes becoming more commonplace. For example, the 540 extensions to Burnley would be cut back to Manchester, covered by an agreement on the X43 similar to that with Coastliner. It would also mean more journey options through the day, as passengers could use any X43/540 combination rather than just those through 540s.

So what you would end up with are the 0xx (former Shuttle), 2xx (former Air/Jetlink) and 5xx (former Rapide) routes, with the 3xx becoming a network of inter-urban shuttles instead.

I can also see a greater use of Parkway-style calling points in some locations, using places like offline motorway services instead of town centres.

 

[Statto]

Main issues are journey time, the 541 takes 10 hours end to end, 9 hours London to Keswick alone providing there's no disruption on the way, people going to/from the lakes who are not driving, most likely train to Penrith then Stagecoach bus to Keswick, or if going to the Cumbrian coast train to Carlisle & change there

 

[route101]

Noticed from Glasgow they have made all the services go on the motorway. Also the fares , if it aint London , Manchester or Brum its dear. Think they are trying to copy Megabus in a way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Noticed from Glasgow they have made all the services go on the motorway. Also the fares , if it aint London , Manchester or Brum its dear. Think they are trying to copy Megabus in a way.

They are reforming their operation so that Flixbus doesn't kill it - there is still a big risk that they will.

 

[Temple Meads]

Assuming that Flixbus do take a hold in the UK market, I find it hard to see room for three big players - most people who would consider using coaches already do.

NX changed the timings on my local route last year - same amount of services but the first coach to London has been made later, and the last coach back is now earlier, meaning the service is unusable for day trips.

I've heard rumblings of more changes to come on the network too.

 

[Statto]

First Liverpool-Leeds on a weekday coaches departed 06.15 & 07.15, arriving in Leeds 9am & 10am respectively, they've now been withdrawn with the 06.45 being extended to Leeds, but that now arrives in Leeds at 10.30am[takes 2 hours to Manchester with a 40 minute break], it's possible to do the 06.10 & change in Manchester but you still arrive in Leeds at 09.30, when TPE is normal, trains take 90 minutes

 

[freetoview33]

It is at a make or break for NE and I think they are heading in the wrong direction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming that Flixbus do take a hold in the UK market, I find it hard to see room for three big players - most people who would consider using coaches already do.

Agreed - and both NE and Megabus will need to put effort into ensuring they are one of the two remaining players. I can't see Flix failing, TBH. I can see it playing out that Stagecoach flog up to them, but that could be with them as the sole remaining operator or it could be that NE survive too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is at a make or break for NE and I think they are heading in the wrong direction.

In what way? The "once a day long distance" operations aren't washing their face even without Flix. Put bluntly, the sort of people who would use them are dying off.

 

[freetoview33]

In what way? The "once a day long distance" operations aren't washing their face even without Flix. Put bluntly, the sort of people who would use them are dying off.

Take the Timetable from Birmingham to Bristol (Made up of lots of once a day services)
Departure times from Birmingham and any stops en-route.
07:00 - Cheltenham (336)
09:00 - Gloucester (338)
11:00 - Worcester (330)
12:45 - Cheltenham (339)
12:45 - Gloucester (531)
13:00 - Worcester (324)
13:30 - Direct (333)
15:00 - Cheltenham (530)
16:00 - Direct (328)
17:45 - Direct (345)
19:00 - Direct (532)
22:00 - Cheltenham & Gloucester (331)

It's not the most user friendly timetable (I got the 339 the other day at it was almost empty but then again there were 4 coaches doing the same trip within 45 mins of one another!) then bigger gaps beforehand. It makes no sense!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Take the Timetable from Birmingham to Bristol (Made up of lots of once a day services)
Departure times from Birmingham and any stops en-route.
07:00 - Cheltenham (336)
09:00 - Gloucester (338)
11:00 - Worcester (330)
12:45 - Cheltenham (339)
12:45 - Gloucester (531)
13:00 - Worcester (324)
13:30 - Direct (333)
15:00 - Cheltenham (530)
16:00 - Direct (328)
17:45 - Direct (345)
19:00 - Direct (532)
22:00 - Cheltenham & Gloucester (331)

It's not the most user friendly timetable (I got the 339 the other day at it was almost empty but then again there were 4 coaches doing the same trip within 45 mins of one another!) then bigger gaps beforehand. It makes no sense!

But isn't this what they're looking to address? Takt isn't I suppose quite as important with coaches where pretty much everyone books in advance, but it would help a bit to simplify.

 

[AndrewE]

It probably sits with the railway adage of "if it's not worth serving it every two hours it might well not be worth serving it at all", which I certainly apply to small stations on busier routes.

In a pure market economy and in a steady state environment that might be true, except that we aren't there now.
The need to decarbonise our economy is going to drive all sorts of reductions in energy use (just changing to power supplied by bionic duckweed will never achieve enough.) Public transport and other lower-energy modes are going to have to shift a lot more people (and have to be made attractive enough to do so,) in which case all sorts of pre-emptive improvements and capacity upgrades will have to be provided.
People who imagine that the climate emergency will be dealt with by just using electric cars instead are deluding themselves. Experts who know about these things say that the whole economy will have to change to something like a war-footing if we are to achieve what is necessary. It's not going to be very comfortable, and sadly I cannot see any of our politicians providing the necessary leadership either.

 

[Glenn1969]

Halifax and Huddersfield appear to have lost their one a day service to Birmingham also

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a pure market economy and in a steady state environment that might be true, except that we aren't there now.
The need to decarbonise our economy is going to drive all sorts of reductions in energy use (just changing to power supplied by bionic duckweed will never achieve enough.) Public transport and other lower-energy modes are going to have to shift a lot more people (and have to be made attractive enough to do so,) in which case all sorts of pre-emptive improvements and capacity upgrades will have to be provided.
People who imagine that the climate emergency will be dealt with by just using electric cars instead are deluding themselves. Experts who know about these things say that the whole economy will have to change to something like a war-footing if we are to achieve what is necessary. It's not going to be very comfortable, and sadly I cannot see any of our politicians providing the necessary leadership either.

This is all very true, but I am really unconvinced that once-a-day coach services are the solution to it. It will change the definition of when it's worth serving something every two hours, sure.

 

[cnjb8]

I thought National Express routes Australia made a big profit last year.

 

[carlberry]

Take the Timetable from Birmingham to Bristol (Made up of lots of once a day services)
Departure times from Birmingham and any stops en-route.
07:00 - Cheltenham (336)
09:00 - Gloucester (338)
11:00 - Worcester (330)
12:45 - Cheltenham (339)
12:45 - Gloucester (531)
13:00 - Worcester (324)
13:30 - Direct (333)
15:00 - Cheltenham (530)
16:00 - Direct (328)
17:45 - Direct (345)
19:00 - Direct (532)
22:00 - Cheltenham & Gloucester (331)

It's not the most user friendly timetable (I got the 339 the other day at it was almost empty but then again there were 4 coaches doing the same trip within 45 mins of one another!) then bigger gaps beforehand. It makes no sense!

If people want to get from Birmingham to Bristol they're likely to take the train. The coaches as they are provide at least one every two hours, it's not being sold as 'turn up and go'. Before the 1980s Birmingham to Bristol by coach mostly involved changing in Cheltenham and only happening once a day!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Lake District service ran at rather unsociable times. Not everyone wants to get up before dawn and skip breakfast on the final morning of their holiday! Nor do they want to arrive after all the hotels / restaurants have stopped servings meals. The times did change recently and a service from Manchester Airport was added. Too little, too late I think.

Whenever I look at making at trip by NX, instead of by train, the coach fare is not much different from the train but with just one or two departures per day rather than an hourly train service.

Less frequent extensions and variations would be withdrawn to simplify routes, with through ticketing onto local routes becoming more commonplace. For example, the 540 extensions to Burnley would be cut back to Manchester, covered by an agreement on the X43 similar to that with Coastliner. It would also mean more journey options through the day, as passengers could use any X43/540 combination rather than just those through 540s.

So what you would end up with are the 0xx (former Shuttle), 2xx (former Air/Jetlink) and 5xx (former Rapide) routes, with the 3xx becoming a network of inter-urban shuttles instead.

I can also see a greater use of Parkway-style calling points in some locations, using places like offline motorway services instead of town centres.

The X43 has had through tickets for as long as I can remember, there is no publicity about it, but I'm sure the journey planner came up with options including the X43. Strangely, it was not available on the X41 to Accrington, same operator, same coach station in Manchester!

The problem with Parkways is 'how do you get to/from them?'. If being dropped off, fine, but places like Warndon and Milton Keynes are not served by high frequency connections.

 

[freetoview33]

If people want to get from Birmingham to Bristol they're likely to take the train. The coaches as they are provide at least one every two hours, it's not being sold as 'turn up and go'. Before the 1980s Birmingham to Bristol by coach mostly involved changing in Cheltenham and only happening once a day!

Having done the trip the other day, the train is quite expensive now! About £40 return vs £10 for the coach

 

[Robertj21a]

The Lake District service ran at rather unsociable times. Not everyone wants to get up before dawn and skip breakfast on the final morning of their holiday! Nor do they want to arrive after all the hotels / restaurants have stopped servings meals. The times did change recently and a service from Manchester Airport was added. Too little, too late I think.

Whenever I look at making at trip by NX, instead of by train, the coach fare is not much different from the train but with just one or two departures per day rather than an hourly train service.



The X43 has had through tickets for as long as I can remember, there is no publicity about it, but I'm sure the journey planner came up with options including the X43. Strangely, it was not available on the X41 to Accrington, same operator, same coach station in Manchester!

The problem with Parkways is 'how do you get to/from them?'. If being dropped off, fine, but places like Warndon and Milton Keynes are not served by high frequency connections.

Milton Keynes Parkway has a frequent service into MK and the Stagecoach X5 calls in every 30 mins on the way from Oxford to Cambridge.

 

[markymark2000]

I quite often find that NX's decisions are questionable. Chester has a LOT of people who travel towards Liverpool, Manchester and the North Wales coast yet, the 375 and the other seasonal route go straight along the Welsh Road not stopping at Chester. They are also more than happy to stop on every street corner on these routes on the North Wales Coast (which could vastly increase journey time if people took the mic with it).

Chester has huge amounts of passengers heading towards Birmingham and London (as the 550 loadings from Chester show at 8am every morning) but they won't divert the later 550 to serve Chester instead of Warrington (where only 2-3 people get the coach and I know this as I have been at Warrington on many occasions and watched this coach).
similarly, the 323 has almost no one, but again they won't divert it into Chester. For such minimal time penalties, they could serve a lot more people.
Another example on the 550 is that the fares for Chester are more expensive than that of Liverpool for the exact same coach on the same day. The journey time is lower, why are Chester passengers paying more?

I think the planners are out of touch with the real world at NX. Not a care in the world for passengers unless you are on their frequent services. Lots of potential thrown away because they don't care.
Stagecoach really could have a look in but Megabus spends too much time diverting around the world and they don't care much about expansion.

I really hope Flixbus shakes things up as some of the current ways of operating intercity coaches is shocking.

 

[LancasterRed]

Surprised to see the Lancaster/Galgate services go. There's a real market for express commuter services directly into Lancaster University as the loadings on the 41 show. It's something I've pushed for for a while too while in an accessibility role for the university, but Stagecoach never budged. It would allow student accommodation to branch further out and for student accommodation to pop up in more areas such as the Lakes, for both Lancaster and Cumbria.

(I'm not even trying to be biased here - the train is the fastest route at the moment for all towns south of Broughton and UCLAN have shown success by throwing in their own express shuttles, it seems counter-intuitive that NX would do the total opposite in this case)