Most boring preserved railway?

[1Q18]

I think they're all boring. The 25mph speed limit (which tends to be rigorously enforced these days) is too slow to get any real enjoyment out of the loco haulage.

Main Line pres is much better

Maybe I’m in a minority but personally I prefer my steam trains on heritage lines rather than on the main line. A heritage line usually offers a much more varied and interesting day out than sitting in a Mark One ten carriages from the engine, looking at the same views I’d get from an Azuma or Pendolino. Each heritage railway has it’s own character and feel. Each to their own, of course!

This isn’t to say I’ve never felt let down or underwhelmed at a heritage railway. Peak Rail stands out, with a top and tailed train (Austerity tank and some kind of Peak) on my sole visit slowly rolling through an uninspired landscape with little in the way of additional attractions. Maybe I’ll give it another go if there’s any interesting events, I find some railways are best enjoyed at events and others on a normal running day.

 

[nanstallon]

I may be wrong but I believe that the bit of the combined Ffestiniog/WHR that's a basket case financially is Tany Bwlch to Blaenau Ffestiniog.?

After all the effort put into the epic achievement of the Deviation to get around the flooded part of the original line, closure is surely unthinkable.

 

[geoffk]

This is the link for a recent (July 7) article in the Times (travel section) entitled "Best Heritage Railways in the UK", with the Worth Valley coming top. "As The Railway Children makes it onto the big screen, get inspired with the UK’s top steam railways."

Best heritage railways in the UK

Currently there are around 200 heritage lines open to the public in the United Kingdom, and every year that number increases – and here are the best.

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[the sniper]

I travelled on the line last week, and the magnificent scenery between Aberystwyth and Devil's Bridge is fantastic, but the railway itself is completely antiseptic. Apart from the train itself, there are no railways artefacts on show, with everything hidden inside the sheds.

What, it hasn't even got a fading purple Pacer in the car park with aspirations of becoming a 'community hub' or such like?! Narrow gauge is no excuse...

Blaenau is a dump (a fairly striking one, admittedly, due to the slag heaps) with almost no redeeming features in and of itself. It's just a place people live for cheap housing just outside the National Park.

They're slate, admittedly, but it is a dump. It's run-down, small-town Wales, poor and with limited prospects, "10 pints and a fight on a Saturday night" territory, just like the grim, half-boarded-up ex-mining towns that dot about the Valleys but without Cardiff's strong economy to at least get some locals into decent work. The only things it has going for it are the termini of the FfR and Conwy Valley Line and the Co-op which comes in handy if having to spend any significant amount of time there. Grey and depressing.

Were it not for the railways nobody would ever go there.

I disagree, having been there on a sunny day fairly recently. While I'd agree that on a wet day in February it can certainly be described as pretty grim, on a nice day it's actually quite fine with some impressive views around it, particularly if entering from north. The work they did on the high street helped and over the years it's become less grey, with greenery slowly enveloping the surrounding waste heaps. I would describe many deprived residential areas in Britain as dumps unfortunately, yet I wouldn't say that of Blaenau now.

While nobody would head to the high street itself as a destination if it weren't for the railway dropping them there, I've parked in Tanygrisiau numerous times for the various spectacular walks above there.

 

[Pinza-C55]

And I have zero interest in kettles.

Each to their own.

I grew up in the BR Blue era but I think the general public is more interested in "kettles" than thumpers or EPBs. And to succeed , preserved railways need to appeal to the widest segment of the public rather than niche interests.

 

[bramling]

What, it hasn't even got a fading purple Pacer in the car park with aspirations of becoming a 'community hub' or such like?! Narrow gauge is no excuse...




I disagree, having been there on a sunny day fairly recently. While I'd agree that on a wet day in February it can certainly be described as pretty grim, on a nice day it's actually quite fine with some impressive views around it, particularly if entering from north. The work they did on the high street helped and over the years it's become less grey, with greenery slowly enveloping the surrounding waste heaps. I would describe many deprived residential areas in Britain as dumps unfortunately, yet I wouldn't say that of Blaenau now.

While nobody would head to the high street itself as a destination if it weren't for the railway dropping them there, I've parked in Tanygrisiau numerous times for the various spectacular walks above there.

I suspect your point about the High Street is key - this is where the railway deposits people, and - dump or not - there’s not a great deal there for someone who has an hour or two to kill, especially if the weather isn’t great.

I grew up in the BR Blue era but I think the general public is more interested in "kettles" than thumpers or EPBs. And to succeed , preserved railways need to appeal to the widest segment of the public rather than niche interests.

It’s interesting, and perhaps rather surprising, that Thumpers don’t seem to have fared particularly well in preservation. Apart from the lack of a view out the front, they’re rather better than 1st-gen DMUs. It’s sadly not that easy to find a Thumper running nowadays.

A great shame, as I recall last decade having a very enjoyable day riding 205032 on the Dartmoor Railway (as was).

 

[the sniper]

I suspect your point about the High Street is key - this is where the railway deposits people, and - dump or not - there’s not a great deal there for someone who has an hour or two to kill, especially if the weather isn’t great.

True, but are there many preserved railways that really do end up where people particularly want to hang around? The likes of Minehead, Bridgnorth and Pickering are nice enough places, but I'd never have done anything but pass through them if it weren't for the railways ending there. I'd guess Whitby is probably the best preservation railway 'destination', but it isn't actually on the NYMR itself... The WHR has Caernarfon and Beddgelert as contenders. I'd put Broadway on the GWR up there too. Depends what you like, I suppose.

As @John Luxton rather points out, part of the problem with the FR is that most people start at its ultimate 'destination', Porthmadog.

 

[Bessie]

I had my first visit to the RHDR at the weekend with my family. I told them they'd get great views along the coast. We ended up calling it the back garden railway for obvious reasons if anyone has traveled along it. It was still a fun day out and the museum at New Romney was great.

 

[yorksrob]

It’s interesting, and perhaps rather surprising, that Thumpers don’t seem to have fared particularly well in preservation. Apart from the lack of a view out the front, they’re rather better than 1st-gen DMUs. It’s sadly not that easy to find a Thumper running nowadays.

A great shame, as I recall last decade having a very enjoyable day riding 205032 on the Dartmoor Railway (as was).

Spa Valley and Mid Hants are probably the other ones. It's a shame the one on the East Lanks Railway hasn't been out for a while. Eden Valley is a good one round here.

I grew up in the BR Blue era but I think the general public is more interested in "kettles" than thumpers or EPBs. And to succeed , preserved railways need to appeal to the widest segment of the public rather than niche interests.

It has it's niche, which probably works with a lot of other preserved railways serving the main stream crowds.

 

[John Luxton]

As it was described to me by a forum member: “If Margaret Thatcher opened a steam railway, it would be just like this one.”

I thought that seemed pretty accurate given its “business like” approach!

Until Covid Dart Valley Railway paid a good dividend to shareholders. Back in the 1970s my father bought me £100 worth of DVR plc shares. Once they had disposed of the loss making Buckfastleigh line the dividends started to come in I think the last one I had was £30. That £100 my father treated me to in 1973 for my 14th Birthday has come back a few times over. These days I tend to travel on their river cruise vessels more than the trains but I would not say it was boring just operated differently and proves a heritage line can pay dividends.

I do wonder how often you visit BF.
I know plenty of people who go to BF as there are several tourist attractions there now and find the place quite interesting.
And you description of many of the people who live there is well off the mark.

Quite many interesting Walks try I spend a full day exploring Cwmorthin Quarry the other year. Must tick off a few more.

I grew up in the BR Blue era but I think the general public is more interested in "kettles" than thumpers or EPBs. And to succeed , preserved railways need to appeal to the widest segment of the public rather than niche interests.

I don't know some heritage diesels are so far removed from the modern experience to be very different. Even Joe public can see the difference between a first generation DMU and the third generation ones.

Personally notice power has never been an issue with me providing it runs on rails and moves it will do. Can be steam, diesel or electric. Even sail would do but the FR don't carry passengers on Spooner's Boat!

 

[181]

I had my first visit to the RHDR at the weekend with my family. I told them they'd get great views along the coast. We ended up calling it the back garden railway for obvious reasons if anyone has traveled along it. It was still a fun day out and the museum at New Romney was great.

It's not all gardens, although admittedly there are quite a lot of them -- I seem to remember that there are sea views, or at least shingle views, at the Dungeness end, and quite a lot of fields further north.

 

[Llanigraham]

Until Covid Dart Valley Railway paid a good dividend to shareholders. Back in the 1970s my father bought me £100 worth of DVR plc shares. Once they had disposed of the loss making Buckfastleigh line the dividends started to come in I think the last one I had was £30. That £100 my father treated me to in 1973 for my 14th Birthday has come back a few times over. These days I tend to travel on their river cruise vessels more than the trains but I would not say it was boring just operated differently and proves a heritage line can pay dividends.

John, the Dart Valley Rlwy don't have any river cruises! I think you are confusing the DVR with the South Devon Rlwy who have them and the vintage/classic buses.

Quite many interesting Walks try I spend a full day exploring Cwmorthin Quarry the other year. Must tick off a few more.

Cwmorthin is a bit specialised to Joe Public though John. I was thinking more about the other mine things, like Go Below, and Bounce Below, which my friends who live in Manod tell me are very popular. And I will agree about the Modern Baker, he is a friend of my Manod friends.

I don't know some heritage diesels are so far removed from the modern experience to be very different. Even Joe public can see the difference between a first generation DMU and the third generation ones.

Personally notice power has never been an issue with me providing it runs on rails and moves it will do. Can be steam, diesel or electric. Even sail would do but the FR don't carry passengers on Spooner's Boat!

Agreed.
What I do think this thread has shown is that there is a huge difference in the experiences and requirements between the "rivet counters", such as those typically found on this and other railway forums and what Joe Holiday Public wants. As you say they want a TRAIN journey and although steam might be nice they often aren't that bothered, and certainly from conversations I've had in some places, a Mk 1 DMU, with a view passed the driver would be popular with the slightly younger age group.

Personally, I'm part of a group of 3 or 4 ex-signallers who like to get out for occasional "boys' days out", but our main criteria of a "good day out" is a train ride a few pints or a couple of bottles of good wine and a good feed.

 

[MarkyT]

Until Covid Dart Valley Railway paid a good dividend to shareholders. Back in the 1970s my father bought me £100 worth of DVR plc shares. Once they had disposed of the loss making Buckfastleigh line the dividends started to come in I think the last one I had was £30. That £100 my father treated me to in 1973 for my 14th Birthday has come back a few times over. These days I tend to travel on their river cruise vessels more than the trains but I would not say it was boring just operated differently and proves a heritage line can pay dividends.

Recently, they made large (I mean seriously huge) amounts of money with the pioneering (for UK) evening 'train of lights' experience, first running in December 2018. They started out with a few dates that year but in the end ran most of December, alongside daytime ordinary santa trains. They had a good two years of that before COVID kicked in. Judging by how many holidaymakers I've seen in the bay this year so far, especially at school holiday times, I expect the Dartmouth Steam Railway will make a good return this year.

 

[philthetube]

True, but are there many preserved railways that really do end up where people particularly want to hang around? The likes of Minehead, Bridgnorth and Pickering are nice enough places, but I'd never have done anything but pass through them if it weren't for the railways ending there. I'd guess Whitby is probably the best preservation railway 'destination', but it isn't actually on the NYMR itself... The WHR has Caernarfon and Beddgelert as contenders. I'd put Broadway on the GWR up there too. Depends what you like, I suppose.

As @John Luxton rather points out, part of the problem with the FR is that most people start at its ultimate 'destination', Porthmadog.

Haworth is another one

 

[Russel]

They're slate, admittedly, but it is a dump. It's run-down, small-town Wales, poor and with limited prospects, "10 pints and a fight on a Saturday night" territory, just like the grim, half-boarded-up ex-mining towns that dot about the Valleys but without Cardiff's strong economy to at least get some locals into decent work. The only things it has going for it are the termini of the FfR and Conwy Valley Line and the Co-op which comes in handy if having to spend any significant amount of time there. Grey and depressing.

Were it not for the railways nobody would ever go there.

Blaenau Ffestiniog is the only place I've had stones thrown at me by the local kids from the station footbridge...

 

[railfan99]

A lot of it is about timing.

Other than my recent Diesel Gala visit I have never enjoyed the KWVR, and my last visit to the ELR was extremely depressing.

I am visiting both on a long distance trip.

What did you find 'depressing' about the East Lancashire Railway? Is there much light commercial or light industrial along the line with buildings being ugly concrete or otherwise unattractive post-1970 construction?

 

[43066]

Until Covid Dart Valley Railway paid a good dividend to shareholders. Back in the 1970s my father bought me £100 worth of DVR plc shares. Once they had disposed of the loss making Buckfastleigh line the dividends started to come in I think the last one I had was £30. That £100 my father treated me to in 1973 for my 14th Birthday has come back a few times over. These days I tend to travel on their river cruise vessels more than the trains but I would not say it was boring just operated differently and proves a heritage line can pay dividends.

I’d agree it’s not boring, with some decent inclines and lovely scenery, albeit I can see why it doesn’t create the “authenticity” that appeals to enthusiasts*. Certainly turning a profit is no bad thing and perhaps certain other lines could learn from their approach in that regard?

*Albeit many more traditional heritage railways seem to present a “chocolate box”, sepia toned version of the past which is arguably no less inauthentic!

 

[50002Superb]

I am visiting both on a long distance trip.

What did you find 'depressing' about the East Lancashire Railway? Is there much light commercial or light industrial along the line with buildings being ugly concrete or otherwise unattractive post-1970 construction?

The lack of variation was the first issue. We traveled to both ends twice and saw two locos all day, one steam and one diesel.

The second is just that the views are not that, to me, inspiring, with the exception of Bury Station.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not all gardens, although admittedly there are quite a lot of them -- I seem to remember that there are sea views, or at least shingle views, at the Dungeness end, and quite a lot of fields further north.

Indeed. The whole landscape of the area is pretty distinctive.

 

[Calthrop]

Blaenau Ffestiniog is the only place I've had stones thrown at me by the local kids from the station footbridge...

Could that perhaps be marketed as part of the local ambience / experience ?

 

[Dai Corner]

Could that perhaps be marketed as part of the local ambience / experience ?

I guess they'd have to throw flat slates rather than round stones

 

[stuu]

I would have to say the dullest ones are the smaller standard gauge lines, where you get a couple of shabby Mk1s being pulled by an 08 or similar. Narrow gauge is more interesting almost by default, as they almost always have unique stock and features

 

[Falcon1200]

This isn’t to say I’ve never felt let down or underwhelmed at a heritage railway. Peak Rail stands out, with a top and tailed train (Austerity tank and some kind of Peak) on my sole visit slowly rolling through an uninspired landscape with little in the way of additional attractions.

I would have to say the dullest ones are the smaller standard gauge lines, where you get a couple of shabby Mk1s being pulled by an 08 or similar.

Which show the different experiences we have; On my one visit to Peak Rail I travelled behind a Class 14, 31, an industrial kettle, and, not just 'some kind of Peak' but a Class 44, one of just two preserved from only ten built ! And given the rarity of Class 08 haulage on the 'real' railway, that today would be a highlight for me. But each to their own.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree, having been there on a sunny day fairly recently. While I'd agree that on a wet day in February it can certainly be described as pretty grim, on a nice day it's actually quite fine with some impressive views around it, particularly if entering from north. The work they did on the high street helped and over the years it's become less grey, with greenery slowly enveloping the surrounding waste heaps. I would describe many deprived residential areas in Britain as dumps unfortunately, yet I wouldn't say that of Blaenau now.

The view is spectacular. It takes my breath away every single time I come out of the tunnel into the "slatescape", even though I've probably done it about 20-30 times now.

But the town itself is grim. It's very much analogous to small Welsh Valleys towns or some places on the Cumbrian Coast - a down-under-heel place that happens to be in stunning scenery. It's been improved, I'll give you, but it's just not a destination, it's a place that provides cheap housing for locals. (That is of course of significant value as National Parks are often bad at that, with houses snapped up as holiday homes and priced too high for locals, but it doesn't make them nice places to visit per-se).

Blaenau Ffestiniog is the only place I've had stones thrown at me by the local kids from the station footbridge...

A classic sort of poor small-town place where there's literally nothing better for them to do (doesn't make it OK, but explains it). Unless you were one of those super-active kids into road cycling and fell running and so just spent your life in the mountains, it must be an utterly awful place to grow up.

 

[mike57]

I think the problem is every preserved railway needs to set some clear goals. If they are a small undertaking then it may be to preserve a particular type of railway history/rolling stock, or maybe to provide footplate experiences to supporters which would not be possible in the larger undertakings, or whatever.

To me a well run small undertaking may be as interesting as the bigger ones, just results in a shorter visit as there is less to see. There are some that seem to missing that point, and some that maybe just dont interest me, but I do think its a case of everyone to their own, what might interest me someone else may find boring, and vica versa.

Obviously there is also the question of finances and can the undertaking support itself, looking around it seems that the large undertakings and the very small volunteer run one seem to do OK if well run, the middle ground seems to be where forces from outside play havoc with the best laid plans for even a well run undertaking, they dont have the resources to weather a storm, and cannot reduce operating cost sufficently to survive.

 

[John Luxton]

John, the Dart Valley Rlwy don't have any river cruises! I think you are confusing the DVR with the South Devon Rlwy who have them and the vintage/classic buses.


Cwmorthin is a bit specialised to Joe Public though John. I was thinking more about the other mine things, like Go Below, and Bounce Below, which my friends who live in Manod tell me are very popular. And I will agree about the Modern Baker, he is a friend of my Manod friends.



Agreed.
What I do think this thread has shown is that there is a huge difference in the experiences and requirements between the "rivet counters", such as those typically found on this and other railway forums and what Joe Holiday Public wants. As you say they want a TRAIN journey and although steam might be nice they often aren't that bothered, and certainly from conversations I've had in some places, a Mk 1 DMU, with a view passed the driver would be popular with the slightly younger age group.

Personally, I'm part of a group of 3 or 4 ex-signallers who like to get out for occasional "boys' days out", but our main criteria of a "good day out" is a train ride a few pints or a couple of bottles of good wine and a good feed.

Sorry the Dart Valley Railway Ltd (which trades at the Dartmouth Steam Railway and Riverboat Company) has owned the pleasure steamer operation out of Dartmouth for quite a few years as well as the bus service which completes the round robin. South Devon do operate a vintage bus from time to tame. South Devon was separated from Dart Valley early 1990s on a leased basis and later sold to to South Devon Railway. I should know what owns what I have been a shareholder in Dart Valley Railway plc now Dart Valley Railway Ltd since 1973 and in recent years one logs on to a shareholder section of the web site to download the annual report!

Trouble is with "Go Below" - I have looked at their web site is that it brings in the theme park / thrill bit associated with fairgrounds. That sort of thing would be fine if it was just a guided tour of the underground workings and I certainly would consider doing it but looking at the web site even the basic visit is sold as a challenge.

I have done underground tours before - I went down Geevor and Pendeen twice when it was a working tin mine - it didn't need any thrills spending two to three hours exploring tunnels, going down the sub incline shaft out under the Atlantic ocean and then into the deeper workings when one suddenly walked into a wall of heat was thrilling enough. I enjoyed it so much I went back. Sadly the mine closed during the tin crisis and whilst the surface plant and buildings have been conserved the mine itself is flooded.

A few years ago I had an excellent tour of the Hopewell Colliery in the Forest of Dean. Again very informative and interesting. Basically it produces coal Autumn / Winter / Early spring and opens as a tourist attraction with underground tours and cafe for the late spring and summer. No thrills needed.

That is where Llechwedd lost their way - zip lines etc. It undermines the pure industrial heritage angle which was formerly offered.

If I want a thrill I will go to a fair ground. As I don't like fairgrounds and never have even as a child I avoid. Start introducing those sort of things into a transport or industrial heritage attraction and I find it a big turn off.

John

Could that perhaps be marketed as part of the local ambience / experience ?

The station does have a bit of a problem apparently. A few years ago the Daily Post Newspaper Web Site reported that British Transport Police claimed Blaenau Station station was the most problematic station in Wales outside of the Cardiff area.

Part of the problem is a public footpath runs through the station. It enters via an opening by the FR water tower with exits either via the foot bridge or foot crossing.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I'd say the Mid-Hants is a bit lacking scenery-wise, but only because I travel between Alton to Winchester every weekday (as well as Saturdays when City are at home or running a coach) so I've seen it all before. That, however, is offset by the gala planners' mantra of "What will get the most red pens out?"

Alresford is number 43 in the Idler Book of Crap Towns. The compact town center is only three minutes walk from the station. A great place to wait hours for the train back. Probably does well in lists of favourite towns too, though.

I love Alresford and I love Blaenau, the latter especially in misty weather. Boring is often good.

Agree with enforcement of 25mph speed limit.

 

[MarkyT]

South Devon do operate a vintage bus from time to time.

Usually between Buckfastleigh station & Buckfast Abbey.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I think they're all boring. The 25mph speed limit (which tends to be rigorously enforced these days) is too slow to get any real enjoyment out of the loco haulage.

Main Line pres is much better

This is where the RH&DR scores - you actually 'feel' as if you are doing 75 mph, especially when you pass another train at speed on one of the open sections, eg near the Hythe canal.

I went there one glorious August day in 2019, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I had my first visit to the RHDR at the weekend with my family. I told them they'd get great views along the coast. We ended up calling it the back garden railway for obvious reasons if anyone has traveled along it. It was still a fun day out and the museum at New Romney was great.

Well, it isn't the Ffestiniog or the NYMR, and I agree that there certainly are sections of mundane surburbia, and if you sold it like that there is likely to be disappointment. But there certainly are sections of open country, crossing sluggish streams, farmland and the like. And then there are the Dungeness power stations. Personally, I think the RH&DR is a wonderful opportunity for learning about all sorts.

But then I think a lot is in the eye of the beholder - or perhaps the brain behind the eye(s). Not referring to you here, but I find people who use the word 'boring' a lot tend to, er, not use the bit behind the eyes so much.

 

[geoffk]

Blaenau Ffestiniog is the only place I've had stones thrown at me by the local kids from the station footbridge...

I had this at Rhyl (a lump of wood, actually). Must be a North Wales thing....