My idea for XC to use electric trains between Manchester and Birmingham to boost capacity.

[adrock1976]

Could you have Mark IV coaches (from the IC225 sets) with HST power cars (or any other diesel-powered locos)?

Anything is possible within the laws of physics.

It is possible, but would involve a lot of rewiring, bearing in mind that HST powercars were designed to work with the HST Mk III stock when built. They are incompatible with the loco hauled Mk III coaches.

I do recall circa 1990 that there were a couple of powercars that had been modified to haul the then new Mk IV + DVT stock - these were the powercars that had buffers at the cab/nose end, which may have been the exact same powercars that were used by the open access operator Grand Central until recently (now with East Midlands). Perhaps somebody could confirm regarding the buffer powercars?

 

[VT 390]

Could you have Mark IV coaches (from the IC225 sets) with HST power cars (or any other diesel-powered locos)?

But would this not mean that the Manchester to Birmingham services are still diesel powered?

 

[GingerSte]

But would this not mean that the Manchester to Birmingham services are still diesel powered?

I would like to see capacity. While I would prefer to see electric power, capacity is more important to me.

I was unaware of the compatibility issues. Rolling stock is not my specialist subject.

 

[VT 390]

I would like to see capacity. While I would prefer to see electric power, capacity is more important to me.

I was unaware of the compatibility issues. Rolling stock is not my specialist subject.

I do agree that capacity is really important to fix on a lot of the XC routes but as there are going to be lots of EMU's available soon would it not be better to have long EMU's running on at least of the Manchester services each hour as this would make better use of electrified sections as well as solving the capacity issue.

 

[tbtc]

Birmingham airport is better as an airport and Crewe is better as a rail interchange for most people coming from the West Midlands. I can't see there being any great demand for trains to Manchester airport from Birmingham.

Whilst I'd agree, there are a sizeable number on here who are convinced that Newcastle/ Edinburgh/ Glasgow/ Leeds etc all need regular services to Manchester Airport (despite them all having their own airports too!).

Whilst a significant number of XC passengers change at Birmingham, there are also a significant number who stay on, and I'd be concerned if all the Manchester to Bournemouth through trains were stopped

Part of the problem here is that we are all arguing "blind" - nobody knows the percentage of passengers who change at New Street versus those who remain on the train (and the percentage of those remaining on the train who would be put off by a change).

Liverpool lost its services through to Bristol/ Bournemouth (etc) some time ago, as did Carlisle/ Preston - but there are always going to be more places north of Birmingham than south of Birmingham (on the XC map) and there's no way that you can squeeze all of Liverpool/ Carlisle/ Newcastle/ Nottingham (etc) onto the few paths south of New Street.

Even if there are a "significant" number of people who remain on the train, there's no need for every service to run through. If we accept that a Birmingham - Manchester - Birmingham diagram is four hours long (i.e. with layovers) then that's eight diagrams. We could run six of them with long EMUs (to provide a high capacity service on most journeys) plus one diagram to Exeter and one to Bournemouth - thus retaining a four-hourly through service for the passengers who would want a through service. That's also six Voyagers freed up to provide additional capacity onto other XC services.

XC used to have bi-hourly "through" services in the Virgin days (e.g. of the two Newcastle services, it was 3tph to Bristol and 1tp2h to Reading), so it's not beyond the realms of possibility to rejig the services a little to accommodate two four-hourly through services.

XC already have their "hot spare" at New Street, so you could deal with the additional platform space taken by interworking the "hot spare" Voyager with the other services (so that there was always one Voyager at New Street, but it doesn't have to be the same one all of the time).

Even if you had to diagram the remaining services to run Bournemouth - Birmingham - Exeter (diagram, not advertise!) three times every four hours then you'd still be freeing up half a dozen Voyagers for the busiest XC services and providing a lot more seats on the journey between two of the three biggest urban areas in the country.

 

[Chester1]

Whilst I'd agree, there are a sizeable number on here who are convinced that Newcastle/ Edinburgh/ Glasgow/ Leeds etc all need regular services to Manchester Airport (despite them all having their own airports too!).



Part of the problem here is that we are all arguing "blind" - nobody knows the percentage of passengers who change at New Street versus those who remain on the train (and the percentage of those remaining on the train who would be put off by a change).

Liverpool lost its services through to Bristol/ Bournemouth (etc) some time ago, as did Carlisle/ Preston - but there are always going to be more places north of Birmingham than south of Birmingham (on the XC map) and there's no way that you can squeeze all of Liverpool/ Carlisle/ Newcastle/ Nottingham (etc) onto the few paths south of New Street.

Even if there are a "significant" number of people who remain on the train, there's no need for every service to run through. If we accept that a Birmingham - Manchester - Birmingham diagram is four hours long (i.e. with layovers) then that's eight diagrams. We could run six of them with long EMUs (to provide a high capacity service on most journeys) plus one diagram to Exeter and one to Bournemouth - thus retaining a four-hourly through service for the passengers who would want a through service. That's also six Voyagers freed up to provide additional capacity onto other XC services.

XC used to have bi-hourly "through" services in the Virgin days (e.g. of the two Newcastle services, it was 3tph to Bristol and 1tp2h to Reading), so it's not beyond the realms of possibility to rejig the services a little to accommodate two four-hourly through services.

XC already have their "hot spare" at New Street, so you could deal with the additional platform space taken by interworking the "hot spare" Voyager with the other services (so that there was always one Voyager at New Street, but it doesn't have to be the same one all of the time).

Even if you had to diagram the remaining services to run Bournemouth - Birmingham - Exeter (diagram, not advertise!) three times every four hours then you'd still be freeing up half a dozen Voyagers for the busiest XC services and providing a lot more seats on the journey between two of the three biggest urban areas in the country.

That sort of compromise would probably be the only politically acceptable option but I think the frequency for both through services could only be halved. Maybe 3 electric only diagrams to provide slightly more than 1tp2h Manchester-Bristol? 4 x LNER IC225 sets would fit the profile of the route, are nearly PRM compliant and would provide a big capacity increase. They are not in a great shape but would be fine until the next franchise inevitably orders bi modes.

 

[sprinterguy]

Which is why I wanted a bit of clarification , it doesn't...

Fair enough, it's a very busy stretch of railway. Pity it can only be made to work during engineering blockades. Ultimately it all boils down to the fact that Crosscountry are using some of those finite paths to run trains that are half the length that they could be.

I do recall circa 1990 that there were a couple of powercars that had been modified to haul the then new Mk IV + DVT stock - these were the powercars that had buffers at the cab/nose end, which may have been the exact same powercars that were used by the open access operator Grand Central until recently (now with East Midlands). Perhaps somebody could confirm regarding the buffer powercars?

HST power cars weren't modified to work with mark 4 stock: Class 91s worked in place of one power car on an HST mark 3 set, with a modified power car at the other end acting as a surrogate DVT and providing train supply (It was soon decided that they would provide traction power as well): Eight power cars were fitted with buffers and TDM multiple working to permit this, and a small number of TGS vehicles also had buffers fitted to make them compatible with the class 91 locomotive at the other end of the train.

Six of the buffer fitted power cars did indeed find employment with Grand Central, the other two had already been taken on by Network Rail for its' New Measurement Train.

 

[tbtc]

That sort of compromise would probably be the only politically acceptable option but I think the frequency for both through services could only be halved. Maybe 3 electric only diagrams to provide slightly more than 1tp2h Manchester-Bristol? 4 x LNER IC225 sets would fit the profile of the route, are nearly PRM compliant and would provide a big capacity increase. They are not in a great shape but would be fine until the next franchise inevitably orders bi modes.

Part of my thinking was that, if you are only going to remove three Voyagers then it's a lot of hassle to go to, you'd need a "micro fleet" of dedicated units for Birmingham - Manchester shuttles, it's a tricky balance.

Worth pointing out that the old Virgin Trains XC had a half hourly Birmingham - Manchester service but many of these didn't run south of New Street (since there were only two departures per hour to the Thames Valley and two departures per hour to the West Country, but also regular services from "Cumbria" and even Liverpool to accommodate - so Bristol/ Bournemouth etc managed with much less than the current hourly through trains to/from Manchester that they currently enjoy.

 

[Chester1]

Part of my thinking was that, if you are only going to remove three Voyagers then it's a lot of hassle to go to, you'd need a "micro fleet" of dedicated units for Birmingham - Manchester shuttles, it's a tricky balance.

Worth pointing out that the old Virgin Trains XC had a half hourly Birmingham - Manchester service but many of these didn't run south of New Street (since there were only two departures per hour to the Thames Valley and two departures per hour to the West Country, but also regular services from "Cumbria" and even Liverpool to accommodate - so Bristol/ Bournemouth etc managed with much less than the current hourly through trains to/from Manchester that they currently enjoy.

Freeing up 3 Voyagers by using Mark IV sets approximately double capacity on 6 diagrams (assuming 8-9 carriages per set). As a stop gap solution it would be cheaper than anything involving upgrade work on HSTs.

 

[Ianno87]

Part of my thinking was that, if you are only going to remove three Voyagers then it's a lot of hassle to go to, you'd need a "micro fleet" of dedicated units for Birmingham - Manchester shuttles, it's a tricky balance.

Worth pointing out that the old Virgin Trains XC had a half hourly Birmingham - Manchester service but many of these didn't run south of New Street (since there were only two departures per hour to the Thames Valley and two departures per hour to the West Country, but also regular services from "Cumbria" and even Liverpool to accommodate - so Bristol/ Bournemouth etc managed with much less than the current hourly through trains to/from Manchester that they currently enjoy.

Pre-2007 the ex-Bournemouth was generally-
-Scotland via ECML every two hours, then
-"North West" every two hours - *usually* Manchester but maybe one train in three to the Scotland via WCML

The ex-Reading/Guildford-Brighton was generally to Manchester every hour.

 

[tbtc]

Freeing up 3 Voyagers by using Mark IV sets approximately double capacity on 6 diagrams (assuming 8-9 carriages per set). As a stop gap solution it would be cheaper than anything involving upgrade work on HSTs.

That'd be a step in the right direction - I'd not be against it - it's just that it would be a relatively small fleet (of Mk4s or whatever), so you'd be going through all of the negative publicity of chopping things up for a smaller gain - still would be better than what we have right now though.

Shame there's no spare 390s - in the way that Virgin run a London - Birmingham - Scotland service every hour, a London - Birmingham - Manchester service would ensure a proper length train on the Birmingham - Manchester route! Impossible now, due to lack of stock and the franchise boundaries, of course, just a thought...

Pre-2007 the ex-Bournemouth was generally-
-Scotland via ECML every two hours, then
-"North West" every two hours - *usually* Manchester but maybe one train in three to the Scotland via WCML

The ex-Reading/Guildford-Brighton was generally to Manchester every hour.

That's how I remember it - I certainly remember a significant number (a quarter?) of Manchester services not running south of New Street - and back then the vast majority of "north west" to "south west" services were of the Carlisle - Warrington - Crewe variety - i.e. Bristol coped without daytime services to Manchester and Bournemouth didn't have as many as it has today but the world worked fine.

 

[RT4038]

That's how I remember it - I certainly remember a significant number (a quarter?) of Manchester services not running south of New Street - and back then the vast majority of "north west" to "south west" services were of the Carlisle - Warrington - Crewe variety - i.e. Bristol coped without daytime services to Manchester and Bournemouth didn't have as many as it has today but the world worked fine.

The world worked fine when there was only a steam hauled train from Birmingham to Manchester about every two hours, but we wouldn't be suggesting a return to that either.....

 

[geoffk]

Bristol coped without daytime services to Manchester and Bournemouth didn't have as many as it has today but the world worked fine.

Bristol had daytime services to Manchester (and Liverpool) via the Severn Tunnel, Hereford and Shrewsbury. Bournemouth had through services via the S&D line, as well as via Oxford.

 

[Jozhua]

Current XC routes that run through Birmingham that passengers are likely to want to catch:
Edinburgh to Plymouth (Runs on MML)
Newcastle to Reading (Runs on MML)
Manchester to Bristol (Runs on WCML)
Manchester to Bournemouth (Runs on WCML)

I'd couple the Manchester to Bristol and Manchester to Bournemouth trains into one 8-car that runs as the same consist till Birmingham, then splitting into two 4-cars and each train making their separate ways down south. This would probably work quite well, as they run on different lines, so can set off quite close to one another from Birmingham.

Then, if working off stock that is going off lease soon, probably use Class 350/4's coming off lease from Transpennine Express doubled up, to offer an 8-car "Shuttle" between Manchester and Birmingham. I'm unsure if the two Manchester to Birmingham services have different stopping patterns, but if so, I'd have the electric do the more frequent stopping, as it's extra acceleration could make up for slight reduction in top speed. (110 vs 125mph.)

Alternatively, Cross Country gives up one of their paths and London Northwestern adds the TPE 350's to their fleet and extends the London Euston to Birmingham via Northampton services to Manchester?

This should give two 8-car trains from Manchester to Birmingham per hour, with stock that should be available within the next few months/year and direct services from Manchester to both the South East/South West. Plus XC can offer cheaper fares for those willing to change to Bristol/Reading and more capacity for local commuters in-between Brum and Manc as well as extra capacity for those who have to change anyway to go towards Exeter/Plymouth.

May be some errors in this, but I think it covers most bases?

 

[6Gman]

I'd couple the Manchester to Bristol and Manchester to Bournemouth trains into one 8-car that runs as the same consist till Birmingham, then splitting into two 4-cars and each train making their separate ways down south. This would probably work quite well, as they run on different lines, so can set off quite close to one another from Birmingham.

Two problems:

1. The performance risk of a train from Bristol (or beyond) coupling to a train from Bournemouth at New Street. If either is late what do you do? Especially given how congested New St - Wolves is ...
2. It would commit those services south of New St to only be a single unit.

 

[VT 390]

Current XC routes that run through Birmingham that passengers are likely to want to catch:
Edinburgh to Plymouth (Runs on MML)
Newcastle to Reading (Runs on MML)
Manchester to Bristol (Runs on WCML)
Manchester to Bournemouth (Runs on WCML)

I'd couple the Manchester to Bristol and Manchester to Bournemouth trains into one 8-car that runs as the same consist till Birmingham, then splitting into two 4-cars and each train making their separate ways down south. This would probably work quite well, as they run on different lines, so can set off quite close to one another from Birmingham.

Then, if working off stock that is going off lease soon, probably use Class 350/4's coming off lease from Transpennine Express doubled up, to offer an 8-car "Shuttle" between Manchester and Birmingham. I'm unsure if the two Manchester to Birmingham services have different stopping patterns, but if so, I'd have the electric do the more frequent stopping, as it's extra acceleration could make up for slight reduction in top speed. (110 vs 125mph.)

Alternatively, Cross Country gives up one of their paths and London Northwestern adds the TPE 350's to their fleet and extends the London Euston to Birmingham via Northampton services to Manchester?

This should give two 8-car trains from Manchester to Birmingham per hour, with stock that should be available within the next few months/year and direct services from Manchester to both the South East/South West. Plus XC can offer cheaper fares for those willing to change to Bristol/Reading and more capacity for local commuters in-between Brum and Manc as well as extra capacity for those who have to change anyway to go towards Exeter/Plymouth.

May be some errors in this, but I think it covers most bases?

I think the Bournemouth ones need to be at least 5 coaches South of Birmingham if not more as they are often overcrowded.

 

[swt_passenger]

...Then, if working off stock that is going off lease soon, probably use Class 350/4's coming off lease from Transpennine Express doubled up...

...Alternatively, Cross Country gives up one of their paths and London Northwestern adds the TPE 350's to their fleet and extends the London Euston to Birmingham via Northampton services to Manchester?

May be some errors in this, but I think it covers most bases?

I think your most major error is that the ex-TPE 350/4s are already part of the existing LNW plans for their current routes. I’d have thought this was already widely known.

 

[duffield]

...

I'd couple the Manchester to Bristol and Manchester to Bournemouth trains into one 8-car that runs as the same consist till Birmingham, then splitting into two 4-cars and each train making their separate ways down south. This would probably work quite well, as they run on different lines, so can set off quite close to one another from Birmingham.

Splitting at Birmingham is fine. Joining (as per other posts) is a nightmare; the probability is very high that at least one of the two portions will be late at Birmingham, now you have a platform tied up (big problem at New Street) or you let one portion go and have to find a platform *and* an extra path for the other portion.

 

[The Planner]

I'd couple the Manchester to Bristol and Manchester to Bournemouth trains into one 8-car that runs as the same consist till Birmingham, then splitting into two 4-cars and each train making their separate ways down south. This would probably work quite well, as they run on different lines, so can set off quite close to one another from Birmingham.

Then, if working off stock that is going off lease soon, probably use Class 350/4's coming off lease from Transpennine Express doubled up, to offer an 8-car "Shuttle" between Manchester and Birmingham. I'm unsure if the two Manchester to Birmingham services have different stopping patterns, but if so, I'd have the electric do the more frequent stopping, as it's extra acceleration could make up for slight reduction in top speed. (110 vs 125mph.)

Alternatively, Cross Country gives up one of their paths and London Northwestern adds the TPE 350's to their fleet and extends the London Euston to Birmingham via Northampton services to Manchester?

This should give two 8-car trains from Manchester to Birmingham per hour, with stock that should be available within the next few months/year and direct services from Manchester to both the South East/South West. Plus XC can offer cheaper fares for those willing to change to Bristol/Reading and more capacity for local commuters in-between Brum and Manc as well as extra capacity for those who have to change anyway to go towards Exeter/Plymouth.

May be some errors in this, but I think it covers most bases?

Which service would you be getting rid of at Manchester?
Currently the Bristol arrives around xx.59 at Piccadilly and goes back to Bournemouth at xx.27, whilst the Bournemouth arrives at Piccadilly at xx.23 and goes back off to Bristol at xx.05. You cannot join the xx.59 arrival to go back out at xx.05 as that isn't a robust turnround, so it stays at xx.27 and gets to New St at xx.58. If that splits with one section going off to Bournemouth at the normal time of xx.04, the Bristol portion stuffs a platform for 38 minutes as it doesn't go until xx.42, or you are finding a new path for it from New St.
If you keep the Bournemouth arrival path as the single train then that leaves at xx.05 and gets to New St at xx.33 before departing for Bristol at xx.42. The Bournemouth slot is xx.04 so you are stuffing a platform for 31 minutes at New St, or again, finding it another path.

 

[Metrailway]

Whilst a significant number of XC passengers change at Birmingham, there are also a significant number who stay on, and I'd be concerned if all the Manchester to Bournemouth through trains were stopped.

Part of the problem here is that we are all arguing "blind" - nobody knows the percentage of passengers who change at New Street versus those who remain on the train (and the percentage of those remaining on the train who would be put off by a change).

Hopefully I can give everyone some insight. I am a regular user of the Manchester - Bournemouth route; I use it about once every fortnight. I would say that about 50-60% vacate at Birmingham with the rest staying on for southern destinations.

Can't speak for others but personally what I've envisaged is:

Manchester - Birmingham International EMU
Birmingham New Street - Bournemouth Voyager
Manchester Piccadilly - Bristol/Exeter Voyager

Each service being hourly, of course. Though I readily admit that I've no idea if that works in terms of pathing between Birmingham New Street and International. It worked while the Euston blockades were on but there may well have been fewer London - Birmingham services running.

I would argue against terminating such a service at International as the vast majority of passengers from Manchester/Stoke-on-Trent/Stafford who stay on at Birmingham do not go to International but instead primarily go to Coventry or Oxford.

 

[Kettledrum]

Hopefully I can give everyone some insight. I am a regular user of the Manchester - Bournemouth route; I use it about once every fortnight. I would say that about 50-60% vacate at Birmingham with the rest staying on for southern destinations.

I would argue against terminating such a service at International as the vast majority of passengers from Manchester/Stoke-on-Trent/Stafford who stay on at Birmingham do not go to International but instead primarily go to Coventry or Oxford.

There aren't wires between Birmingham and Oxford so that precludes electric trains going there to terminate. If the proposed XC electrics from Manchester terminated at Coventry, would that create a problem finding platforms or paths at Birmingham New Street for the XC to Bournemouth? Would it help at all if the service to Bournemouth was routed via Solihull as some XC trains used to? Of course there's always to possibility of starting the Birmingham to Bournemouth service at Moor Street and going via Solihull, but that would cause all sorts of havoc for changing passengers!

 

[Bevan Price]

There aren't wires between Birmingham and Oxford so that precludes electric trains going there to terminate. If the proposed XC electrics from Manchester terminated at Coventry, would that create a problem finding platforms or paths at Birmingham New Street for the XC to Bournemouth? Would it help at all if the service to Bournemouth was routed via Solihull as some XC trains used to? Of course there's always to possibility of starting the Birmingham to Bournemouth service at Moor Street and going via Solihull, but that would cause all sorts of havoc for changing passengers!

Yes - but there ought to be wires between Birmingham, Oxford & Reading, and also Birmingham & Bristol (or even Plymouth). But the only way to get that seems to be a clearout of the short-sighted deadwood running the DfT, and their replacement by people who comprehend that long-term costs & consequences are far more important than short term capital costs.

 

[Metrailway]

There aren't wires between Birmingham and Oxford so that precludes electric trains going there to terminate. If the proposed XC electrics from Manchester terminated at Coventry, would that create a problem finding platforms or paths at Birmingham New Street for the XC to Bournemouth? Would it help at all if the service to Bournemouth was routed via Solihull as some XC trains used to? Of course there's always to possibility of starting the Birmingham to Bournemouth service at Moor Street and going via Solihull, but that would cause all sorts of havoc for changing passengers!

Once the new platform is available at Coventry, in theory there should be a spare path between Coventry and New Street. I understand XC are planning to route their Reading - Newcastle via Coventry to utilise this path. I guess you could replace this planned re-routing with a new XC New Street - Bournemouth service.

 

[The Ham]

Yes - but there ought to be wires between Birmingham, Oxford & Reading, and also Birmingham & Bristol (or even Plymouth). But the only way to get that seems to be a clearout of the short-sighted deadwood running the DfT, and their replacement by people who comprehend that long-term costs & consequences are far more important than short term capital costs.

How far out towards Leamington Spa do the wires reach? As that could be an alternative route to wire up. Have it so that you wired up from there to Snow Hill/Kidderminster and you could divert some of XC services to Moor Street with people changing at Leamington Spa to use electric services.

If that's too big a project then add a stop on the XC services at Solihull and wire to there for that to be the change point as phase 1 and then just keep going from there until you complete the project*.

It would mean switching the routing so that the Southampton/Reading to the North East services ran via Coventry.

Yes it would mean that people would need to change trains when they currently don't (such as Oxford to Manchester) however those direct services are only once an hour, so the overall impact is unlikely to be very big.

* Once the Kidderminster - Leamington Spa route is wired then the next project is to wire between Leamington Spa and Coventry and Southwards to Oxford enabling XC services between the South Coast and Birmingham/Manchester to be run by dual voltage EMU's (397's?). This could form phase 2 (phase 1 being through Snow Hill) of the electrification of the Chiltern line with the line between Banbury and London being done last.

 

[Kettledrum]

Once the new platform is available at Coventry, in theory there should be a spare path between Coventry and New Street. I understand XC are planning to route their Reading - Newcastle via Coventry to utilise this path.

That would be a lost opportunity to add capacity then. Presumably XC think they can try and squeeze even more passengers onto their existing 4 or 5 coach trains by going via Coventry rather than Solihull. Or maybe extract more revenue from the ORCATS system?

It would be interesting if this extra path was used for an additional service instead of switching from the Solihull route, but the only stock available is life expired diesel HST's or surplus electric units that could only run under the wires from Coventry to Manchester.

HSTs are really expensive to run, both in track access charges and lease costs, but much less so for electrics. Given passenger numbers and growth possibilities between Birmingham and Manchester, I'd be surprised if XC couldn't make it pay

 

[The Ham]

That would be a lost opportunity to add capacity then. Presumably XC think they can try and squeeze even more passengers onto their existing 4 or 5 coach trains by going via Coventry rather than Solihull. Or maybe extract more revenue from the ORCATS system?

It would be interesting if this extra path was used for an additional service instead of switching from the Solihull route, but the only stock available is life expired diesel HST's or surplus electric units that could only run under the wires from Coventry to Manchester.

HSTs are really expensive to run, both in track access charges and lease costs, but much less so for electrics. Given passenger numbers and growth possibilities between Birmingham and Manchester, I'd be surprised if XC couldn't make it pay

It could use trains which would otherwise heading for scrap as it would probably only need to work for up to 10 years (until phase 2a of HS2 opens) when the XC network would need to undergo a major review.

 

[The Planner]

Once the new platform is available at Coventry, in theory there should be a spare path between Coventry and New Street. I understand XC are planning to route their Reading - Newcastle via Coventry to utilise this path. I guess you could replace this planned re-routing with a new XC New Street - Bournemouth service.

Eh? the new platform is a bay for the Nuneaton shuttle, the mainline will have no access to it. There won't be anything freed up by that piece of work. XC won't be sending the second train along there until after HS2 opens.

 

[nw1]

Speaking as someone who uses the Southampton-New St leg fairly regularly (but normally transfers to other services at New St) I'd welcome all the Voyagers on this route being doubled up at least north of Reading (no need IMX south of Reading) and terminating at Birmingham, with onward travel towards Manchester needing a transfer to a long EMU.

I can see more need for retaining Bristol-Manchester as that is a link between large cities.


True, it would mean more changes, but at least people would get a seat on both legs... so I suspect comfort levels overall would be improved!

Platform capacity at New Street is the main problem, not sure if this could be dealt with in any sort of creative way. Now if there was only one TOC, you could run the Bournemouth arrivals at New St on to Shrewsbury... Or if the Bristol Manchester link was also split (but IMO not a good idea, see above) you could have an incoming Bournemouth Voyager pair depart as a Bristol service without a reversal.

I don't think diverting Bournemouths to Moor St would be a good idea though, you lose the interchange at a single station. I often transfer Moor St to New St, so that I can do the Banbury-Birmingham section on a less crowded Chiltern, but I suspect it would not be popular with many.