My vision for (kind of Merseyside centric) new services/stations across the UK.

[tetudo boy]

• This post will be updated regularly. This post is from a few other posts from other threads that has been put into one thread, which makes this post. THIS IS NOT A SPAM!
• New services, lines, and TOC's (except existing ones) listed in this thread are ENTIRELY FICTIONAL. Any info that is entirely exclusive to this thread should not be taken seriously in real life. However, you do have the right to share your opinions about these

Welcome to my post! I will post my (kind of Merseyside centric) Ideas and thoughts on this thread and you can feel free to ask any questions.

Okay, Let's start with the new stations/lines:

1. Liverpool John Lennon Airport Station: Acts as an airport station, obvious in its name. It's connected by a spur line connecting Liverpool South Parkway, Warrington Line, The line towards Crewe, and another line connecting Lea Green (Possibly with an intermediate station?)
2. St Helens Queen Street Interchange Station: Built on the site of Earlstown Station, this station act's as a major interchange for other railways (a bit like Crewe or Preston stations). Transfers at this station work like an Airport but without Airport-Like security and shuttle buses. Travelators are provided for quick and easy access between platforms and exits and a shopping area including a large waiting area is provided (with a large destination board!).
3. Liverpool Central Line: Connect's Liverpool Lime Street with James Street Station using a 1.3 km tunnel. The line is Privately owned by Liverpool Tōzai Rapid Railway Business (strange name but that's all I could think of), which is a half-British/half-Japanese company.
4. Liverpool Metro Oliver-North Line(Take a good guess why it's named that ): Serves the existing Canada Dock Line which includes a new line between Bank Hall and Edge Lane via Bramley-Moore and Lime Street (A bit like the 2017 version of Kayla Bibby's Sergeant Pepper Line, but covers a bit more of the docks and uses a bit of the Liverpool Overhead Railway). The previous stations before the original passenger services are present with a few new stations at County Road, Kirkdale and Bank hall. There will be several Junctions along the line which lead to existing lines including the existing junction near Wavertree Technology Park.
5. Liverpool Metro NorthEast Line: Another Subway line Between Liverpool Lime Street and Tower Hill via Norris Green. An alternative route for the 14A bus route as it runs along the same route.
6. Wirrail: A privately owned/operated elevated commuter/intercity railway between the rebuilt Birkenhead Woodside station and Crewe via Clatterbridge and Chester. These trains are operated by dedicated Electrostar's (maybe Aventra's but they are everywhere!) equipped with ATO/ATC (Half-manual Half-Automatic driving). The stations are served by dedicated bus routes connecting almost all of the stations. The stations on Wirrail (X determines stations where through services stop) are: Woodside (X) - Birkenhead Pyramids (for pyramids shopping centre and bus station) - South Claughton (for Birkenhead Park) - Noctorum and Upton - Woodchurch - Landican (for trading estate) - Brimstage - Clatterbridge (X) (for Health Park) - Willaston - Two Mills - Chester Zoo (X) - Chester West (X) (built in the city centre, which is west of the National Rail station) - Waverton Heath - Crewe (X). Service Info: An all-stop service serves the line and operates at a 15-minute interval. A through service also operates in Co-operation with LNWR (See routes section for more info), they skip most stations along the line. (Ps: Wow, that was a lot of typing! This was actually inspired by Gautrain, I'm afraid that this railway might be too similar!)

Here are the routes!

1. John Lennon Airport - St Helens Queen Street - Wigan North Western - Preston - Lancaster - Oxenholme/Penrith - Carlisle - Lockerbie (Limited service) (Then: ) - Carstairs (Limited service) - Motherwell - Glasgow Central (Or: ) - Haymarket - Edinburgh Waverly
2. John Lennon Airport - (Or: ) Liverpool Lime Street (Then: ) St Helens Queen Street - Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - East Midlands Parkway - Loughborough - Leicester - Melton Mowbray - Oakham - Stamford - Peterborough - March - Ely - Cambridge -Stanstead Airport
3. Liverpool Lime Street - Edge hill - Mossley Hill - West Allerton - Liverpool South Parkway - John Lennon Airport
4. Liverpool Lime Street - St Helens Queen Street - Manchester Piccadilly (Express Shuttle)
5. Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Northampton - Milton Keynes Central - Watford Junction - London Euston (Service is used to reduce the time between Birmingham and London on LNWR services. Does a through service to Liverpool as usual for every LNWR regional service.)
6. New Brighton/Chester - John Lennon Airport (All stops. Via Central Line.)
7. Chester - Hooton - Birkenhead Central - James Street - Liverpool Lime Street - St Helens Queen Street - Manchester Piccadily - Sheffield - Meadowhall/Rotherham Central (Alternating) - Doncaster - Scunthorpe - Barnetby (Limited Service) - Grimsby Town - Cleethorpes
8. Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Birmingham New Street - Cheltenham Spa - Gloucester - Bristol Parkway (Limited service) - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway (Limited Service) - Exter St Davids - Newton Abbot - Totnes - Plymouth - Par - Truro - Penzance
9. Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Birmingham New Street - Leamington Spa - Banbury (Then: ) - Oxford - Dicot Parkway - Reading - Wokingham - Guildford - Reigate (Limited Service) (Or: ) High Wycombe - Kensington Olympia (Limited service) - Clapham Junction (Limited Service) - East Croydon (Then: ) - Redhill (Limited Service) - Gatwick Airport - Haywards Heath (Limited Service) - Brighton
10. Woodside - Clatterbridge - Chester Zoo - Chester West - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry
11. Woodside - Clatterbridge - Chester Zoo - Chester West - Crewe - Stafford - Rugely Trent Valley (Limited Service) - Lichfield Trent Valley - Tamworth - Atherstone (Limited Service) - Nuneaton - Rugby - Milton Keynes Central - Watford Junction - London Euston

Notes:

1. There may be a connection between Reigate to Redhill going northwards, eliminating the need for a switchback.
2. The section between Banbury and Redhill have alternating routes.
3. Trains to Liverpool and John Lennon airport are alternating services
4. There will be a short link between South Ruislip and Old Oak Common. (Possibly running adjacent with the HS2)
5. Manchester Airport will have 2 (or maybe 4) new platforms above ground. These will be through platforms. Like The Reigate-Redhill link, this also eliminates the need for a switchback.

 

[30907]

For those of us who rely on Googlemaps and the like, why is the upgraded Earlestown station named after Queen St in St Helens which is miles away?

 

[BrianW]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but ... looking a bit Liverpool centric ; if that's the idea, I have little to say other than noting how services to Liverpool from big chunks of the country have been reduced or cut out over time, eg XC. I can't help but feel that the need to change trains reduces attraction - does anyone have stats that would show if journeys eg Bristol or Oxford to Liverpool reduced?

Another question- from ignorance- looking at a rail map suggests several routes Liverpool-Manchester. How do people decide which way to go?

BW

 

[tetudo boy]

Sorry,

Forgive me if I'm wrong but ... looking a bit Liverpool centric ; if that's the idea, I have little to say other than noting how services to Liverpool from big chunks of the country have been reduced or cut out over time, eg XC. I can't help but feel that the need to change trains reduces attraction - does anyone have stats that would show if journeys eg Bristol or Oxford to Liverpool reduced?

Another question- from ignorance- looking at a rail map suggests several routes Liverpool-Manchester. How do people decide which way to go?

BW

Just answering your questions:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am from Merseyside!
No, sorry, I have no stats.
Also, I'm probably going to make a Liverpool - Brighton/Penzance route!

 

[tetudo boy]

For those of us who rely on Googlemaps and the like, why is the upgraded Earlestown station named after Queen St in St Helens which is miles away?

Queens Street is a street next to Earlestown Station.

 

[30907]

Queens Street is a street next to Earlestown Station.

Yes, I know, but it's not in St Helens - where there is also a Queen St (it's a pretty common C19th name).

 

[6Gman]

Sorry,

Just answering your questions:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am from Merseyside!
No, sorry, I have no stats.
Also, I'm probably going to make a Liverpool - Brighton/Penzance route!

If you're going to Brighton could you make sure you use 442s please ?

(Forum in-joke)

More seriously, how many JL Airport users are travelling to Scotland ?

And what's the Lime St - James St tunnel for when the two are already linked ?

 

[tetudo boy]

More seriously, how many JL Airport users are travelling to Scotland ?

I don't know how many are...

And what's the Lime St - James St tunnel for when the two are already linked ?

The existing tunnels go in a one-way loop so i guess it could be hard for trains to go those way's. Still, it would have been present after the new tunnel was in service.

 

[VT 390]

1. Liverpool John Lennon Airport Station: Act's as an airport station, obvious in it's name. It's connected by a spur line connecting Liverpool South Parkway, Warrington Line, The line towards Crewe, and another line connecting Lea Green (Possibly with an intermediate station?

Given than air travel has recently dropped due to the current situation is it a goo idea to be spending lots on money on new airport links as it may be a while if at all that air travel will be back up to what it was, also as air travel demand has dropped would now be a good time to try to stop shirt internal flights completely and try to get people to use better forms of transport for there whole journey?

 

[30907]

Given than air travel has recently dropped due to the current situation is it a goo idea to be spending lots on money on new airport links as it may be a while if at all that air travel will be back up to what it was, also as air travel demand has dropped would now be a good time to try to stop shirt internal flights completely and try to get people to use better forms of transport for there whole journey?

I think it's a reasonable working assumption that intra-European air travel will resume before this (or any) proposal gets anywhere near a drawing board.
I agree re internal flights, but they aren't a significant part of Liverpool's business AFAIK.

 

[6Gman]

The existing tunnels go in a one-way loop so i guess it could be hard for trains to go those way's. Still, it would have been present after the new tunnel was in service.

But what purpose would this new tunnel serve?

If I want to travel from Lime Street to James Street, or James Street to Lime Street (which I often do - well, used to do before the current restrictions) there's already a perfectly good service !

 

[Mogz]

But what purpose would this new tunnel serve?

If I want to travel from Lime Street to James Street, or James Street to Lime Street (which I often do - well, used to do before the current restrictions) there's already a perfectly good service !

The way I read it, the proposal for an additional tunnel directly from Lime Street to James Street would allow trains coming from the City Line/ other main lines into Lime Street to go to the Wirral and beyond?

At present there is no such connectivity.

I’m all for that and the restored XC links proposed!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The way I read it, the proposal for an additional tunnel directly from Lime Street to James Street would allow trains coming from the City Line/ other main lines into Lime Street to go to the Wirral and beyond?

At present there is no such connectivity.

I’m all for that and the restored XC links proposed!

Is there a demand for travel to the Wirral which isn't already met by the very easy transfer to Merseyrail at Lime Street, or by accessing the peninsula via Chester and Merseyrail from there?

 

[BrianW]

I long-wondered about the 'draw' of Birkenhead (Woodside) from London. My school backed onto the then mainline from Paddington to Birmingham (Snow Hill) and Wolv LL etc. I recall the 8.20 Inter City and Westerns rescued by Kings ... I'm in danger of drifting off topic ...
Presumably someone thought a regular service between the Wirral and the capital was important (at the time).
Many locations today are 'marketed' in terms of regularity and/or time to London, e.g for a business location.
My perception of (parts of) the Wirral is of pleasant 'suburbs' of Liverpool. Would there be scope for a London service starting from a Wirral railhead (Parkway?)? Similar in some ways to Weston-super-Mare, or Harrogate?
Maybe as a western terminal of a grander Northern Powerhouse? Or going through to Chester? or en route Glasgow- Cardiff? Maybe more imaginative than realistic but that's what I take this thread to be about- vision?

 

[VT 390]

Would there be scope for a London service starting from a Wirral railhead (Parkway?)? Similar in some ways to Weston-super-Mare, or Harrogate?

It would likely have to be a completely new service as the hourly Liverpool to London could not access the Wirral area, although the Chester service could possibly be extended towards the Wirral but capacity could be an issue, also there are good connections at Chester and Liverpool for onward services to London and other places so with the frequent Merseyrail services providing connections I d not think any new longer distance services should be extended or added in to the Wirral area.

 

[6Gman]

I long-wondered about the 'draw' of Birkenhead (Woodside) from London. My school backed onto the then mainline from Paddington to Birmingham (Snow Hill) and Wolv LL etc. I recall the 8.20 Inter City and Westerns rescued by Kings ... I'm in danger of drifting off topic ...
Presumably someone thought a regular service between the Wirral and the capital was important (at the time).
Many locations today are 'marketed' in terms of regularity and/or time to London, e.g for a business location.
My perception of (parts of) the Wirral is of pleasant 'suburbs' of Liverpool. Would there be scope for a London service starting from a Wirral railhead (Parkway?)? Similar in some ways to Weston-super-Mare, or Harrogate?
Maybe as a western terminal of a grander Northern Powerhouse? Or going through to Chester? or en route Glasgow- Cardiff? Maybe more imaginative than realistic but that's what I take this thread to be about- vision?

And that "someone" was the Great Western Railway, competing with the LNWR (and later LMS). Not sure it was ever competitive with the services to Euston.

Incidentally, did Kings ever get that far? Always thought they came off at Snow Hill or Wolverhampton LL ?

 

[tetudo boy]

News: I updated the main post! There is something to consider though, should I put future ideas on to multiple post's or keep the main post I've currently got? I also forgot to mention that I was thinking about (in my vision) re-opening the Monk's ferry line as a freight line using Wirrail, I guess that could work! Anyways, hope the Woodside station bring's back some memories!

 

[tetudo boy]

I long-wondered about the 'draw' of Birkenhead (Woodside) from London. My school backed onto the then mainline from Paddington to Birmingham (Snow Hill) and Wolv LL etc. I recall the 8.20 Inter City and Westerns rescued by Kings ... I'm in danger of drifting off topic ...
Presumably someone thought a regular service between the Wirral and the capital was important (at the time).
Many locations today are 'marketed' in terms of regularity and/or time to London, e.g for a business location.
My perception of (parts of) the Wirral is of pleasant 'suburbs' of Liverpool. Would there be scope for a London service starting from a Wirral railhead (Parkway?)? Similar in some ways to Weston-super-Mare, or Harrogate?
Maybe as a western terminal of a grander Northern Powerhouse? Or going through to Chester? or en route Glasgow- Cardiff? Maybe more imaginative than realistic but that's what I take this thread to be about- vision?

And that "someone" was the Great Western Railway, competing with the LNWR (and later LMS). Not sure it was ever competitive with the services to Euston.

Oh my god! I forgot to mention the moment I saw ''Woodside station'' that was the reason why I came up with re-opening the station! My friend told me so much about that station! And we can't forget Monks Ferry, right? Also, you should check out The Wirral Channel's ''Disused and Lost stations'' series if you are interested! He has loads of information on disused railway's and station's including Woodside station!

 

[tetudo boy]

No one seems to be posting here... people are usually posting here often and it's strange to see no one posting...

 

[swt_passenger]

No one seems to be posting here... people are usually posting here often and it's strange to see no one posting...

Probably because your main points have all been discussed far too many times before...

 

[tetudo boy]

Probably because your main points have all been discussed far too many times before...

Should I delete them? I'm happy to! But I may need to take some time to delete them because I only just informed them on the other threads.

 

[tetudo boy]

Should I delete them? I'm happy to! But I may need to take some time to delete them because I only just informed them on the other threads.

It's almost the same for every other thread. I wonder what's happened to everyone?

 

[swt_passenger]

Should I delete them? I'm happy to! But I may need to take some time to delete them because I only just informed them on the other threads.

I wouldn’t worry about them. Just aiming to explain.

 

[tetudo boy]

I wouldn’t worry about them. Just aiming to explain.

Oh, thanks!
I wonder when this will get attention again...

 

[TheWalrus]

Some interesting ideas here. I think it would be good to have more inter-urban links such as Derby-Manchester. However I’m not sure if loads of links from Liverpool to most cities in UK are realistically possible? My knowledge of Merseyside is very poor so it’s very difficult for me to pass judgement on a lot of these ideas! I do however support more links from/to Liverpool and reconnecting it to the XC network.

 

[tetudo boy]

I think it would be good to have more inter-urban links such as Derby-Manchester.

That tell's me, I forgot to link Liverpool Lime street on the John Lennon Airport to Stanstead Airport route! I might as well edit that! Aside from that, I do think that Derby to Manchester routes should be created.

However I’m not sure if loads of links from Liverpool to most cities in UK are realistically possible? My knowledge of Merseyside is very poor so it’s very difficult for me to pass judgement on a lot of these ideas!

Liverpool currently seems to be served well, but I think it needs to be served more. That's why I created this thread!

I do however support more links from/to Liverpool and reconnecting it to the XC network.

Yes!!! Especially the Liverpool to Brighton route, I felt that that route needed to come back in service. And there's the Liverpool to Penzance route as well!

If you have any more questions about any other route please do so! Thanks!

 

[tetudo boy]

That tell's me, I forgot to link Liverpool Lime street on the John Lennon Airport to Stanstead Airport route! I might as well edit that! Aside from that, I do think that Derby to Manchester routes should be created.

Liverpool currently seems to be served well, but I think it needs to be served more. That's why I created this thread!

Yes!!! Especially the Liverpool to Brighton route, I felt that that route needed to come back in service. And there's the Liverpool to Penzance route as well!

If you have any more questions about any other route please do so! Thanks!

I forgot to mention, you can suggest some routes!

 

[TheWalrus]

That tell's me, I forgot to link Liverpool Lime street on the John Lennon Airport to Stanstead Airport route! I might as well edit that! Aside from that, I do think that Derby to Manchester routes should be created.

Liverpool currently seems to be served well, but I think it needs to be served more. That's why I created this thread!

Yes!!! Especially the Liverpool to Brighton route, I felt that that route needed to come back in service. And there's the Liverpool to Penzance route as well!

If you have any more questions about any other route please do so! Thanks!

If you want to bring back an old route that has previously been withdrawn, you first need to look at why it was withdrawn in the first place. XC to Brighton was with drawn in I think December 2008 but not sure why. It could be to do with lack of paths?

 

[tetudo boy]

A lack of paths? What's that?

 

[VT 390]

That tell's me, I forgot to link Liverpool Lime street on the John Lennon Airport to Stanstead Airport route! I might as well edit that! Aside from that, I do think that Derby to Manchester routes should be created.

Liverpool currently seems to be served well, but I think it needs to be served more. That's why I created this thread!

Yes!!! Especially the Liverpool to Brighton route, I felt that that route needed to come back in service. And there's the Liverpool to Penzance route as well!

If you have any more questions about any other route please do so! Thanks!

I agree that a Liverpool to Derby service would be good possibly extended to Nottingham or Leicester if this did happen I think it would be best to route it via Crewe and Stoke (although at the moment there would not be the capacity) as the Manchester route is to congested and it would provide a fast service between Crewe and Derby, I think TPE had proposed something like this but I may be wrong.

Although I would like to see Cross Country to Brighton I don't think it will ever happen because the Brighton Main line is busy enough without adding a completely different type of train on it.