A “realistic” view of the railway once meant an acceptance of terminal decline.
In 1970 a re-opening of Birmingham Snow Hill Station would have not been “realistic”.
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My vision for (kind of Merseyside centric) new services/stations across the UK.
- Thread starter tetudo boy
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A “realistic” view of the railway once meant an acceptance of terminal decline.
In 1970 a re-opening of Birmingham Snow Hill Station would have not been “realistic”.
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tetudo boy
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Underground platform's then? (one level lower than the current platforms)
The station is already 'underground' - there is not going to a vast investment at Birmingham New Street just to allow trains from Liverpool to go to every conceivable destination on the south coast, not when a new station is being built at Curzon Street to take some of that demand away.
The 1980s reopening of Birmingham Snow Hill would not have been realistic if the line had been built on between 1972 and the early 1980s. It was fortunate that it was used first as a car park and not built on and that the local authority had a view that it would eventually reopen in some form.
swt_passenger
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“Chalk and cheese“ compared to the earlier proposal to just build a few extra platforms at New St, as well.
VT 390
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Was there not a proposal a few years ago to have underground New Street/Moor Street platforms for the Cross City line? Not that I think this should have priority over other projects and it would not solve the problem of available capacity on the approaches to New Street.
Really unless the Liverpool XC services are formed by diverting Manchester services or splitting off them I don't see Liverpool getting any XC services until at least HS2 is completed.
Or indeed after HS2 is completed. HS2 is about increasing the number of slightly slower regional and local services by diverting the fast trains away. The reason people seem to want XC services to Liverpool appears to be the credible aim of having faster trains to Birmingham and the novelty aim of having destinations which are further away.
The appropriate links between Liverpool and Birmingham might be an hourly service which uses HS2 south of Crewe to get to Birmingham Curzon Street and something much like the existing LNR services running half-hourly as now. It might be possible to extend one of those to Reading and the South Coast after HS2 is built but it won't be any quicker between Liverpool and Birmingham than the existing LNR services.
VT 390
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I have always thought a HS2 Liverpool service to Birmingham would be a good idea but would there be capacity on HS2 for this service once all the other HS2 services are up and running?
tetudo boy
Member
Speaking of HS2, I have a feeling that it might not happen. I don't know why, I guess it's just a feeling in me...
If that happens it would seem likely that Liverpool would keep its existing level of service to Birmingham.
Rather more likely to happen than a new railway from John Lennon Airport to St Helens to offer through trains to Scotland . . .
D365
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Following this week's announcements, you'd have to be very brave to say that again. I think you underestimate the number of jobs that have been created by (or rely on) HS2.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And with a need for jobs and high unemployment, it's better to create them building infrastructure projects than just pay out the dole.
Llandudno
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In my view the rail priorities for Liverpool City Region and it’s environs should be:
Extend Merseyrail to Liverpool Airport/Skelmersdale/Burscough Bridge/Neston
Extend Merseyrail Ellesmere Port service to Cheshire Oaks
Reinstate Burscough curve to facilitate Southport to Preston services connecting with Merseyrail at Burscough
Evening and Sunday services introduced on Kirkby (Skelmersdale) - Wigan line
Merseyrail’s 15 minute frequency currently ceases at around 7pm before dropping to half hourly (except Hunts Cross-Southport) the 15 minute headway should continue ideally to end of service, but certainly until at least 8pm. 15 minute headway should operate on Sundays after 0900.
At least the above will only cost millions and not billions!
Extend Merseyrail to Liverpool Airport/Skelmersdale/Burscough Bridge/Neston
Extend Merseyrail Ellesmere Port service to Cheshire Oaks
Reinstate Burscough curve to facilitate Southport to Preston services connecting with Merseyrail at Burscough
Evening and Sunday services introduced on Kirkby (Skelmersdale) - Wigan line
Merseyrail’s 15 minute frequency currently ceases at around 7pm before dropping to half hourly (except Hunts Cross-Southport) the 15 minute headway should continue ideally to end of service, but certainly until at least 8pm. 15 minute headway should operate on Sundays after 0900.
At least the above will only cost millions and not billions!
tetudo boy
Member
That sounds good!
tetudo boy
Member
I forgot about this thread for a while. Here are some more routes, South-west centric this time!:
- Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Birmingham New Street - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Dicot Parkway - Reading - Baskingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport Parkway - Southampton Central - Brockenhurst - Bournemouth - Poole - Weymouth
- Birmingham New Street - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Dicot Parkway - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Shawford - Eastleigh - Southampton Airport Parkway - Southampton Central - Totton - Ashurst (New Forest) - Beaulieu Road (limited service) - Brockenhurst - Sway - New Milton - Hinton Admiral - Christchurch - Pokesdown - Bournemouth
- Birmingham New Street - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Dicot Parkway - Reading - Basingstoke - Micheldever - Winchester - Eastleigh - Hedge End - Botley - Fareham - Portchester - Cosham - Hilsea - Fratton - Portsmouth & Southsea - Portsmouth Harbour
- I might make a thread dedicated to battery trains running between Newbury to Bedwyn, as discussed by TheWalrus.
- I'm planning something big, I might share it with you soon, but I'm not done with planning it yet! Big moves will be made!
Thank you for the mention! There has been talk of battery trains to Uckfield and previously Windermere.
These ideas are getting better. However again paths would be an issue and can’t see XC calling at all those stations!
tetudo boy
Member
Is it Birmingham New Street again that can't accept paths?
I'll probably make that battery thread today!
tetudo boy
Member
Update: I made the Bedwyn Battery thread! The thread can be found here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/battery-trains-for-bedwyn.204012/
Well, there are single track sections of line between Moreton (Dorset) and Dorchester South and between Botley and Fareham that limit the number of services which can be pathed to Weymouth and Portsmouth.
If you look at the timetable beyond Bournemouth, you will note that the stops at Branksome and Parkstone are in the 'fast' Weymouth rather than the slightly slower trip to balance up the journey times. There isn't scope for a faster service between Bournemouth and Weymouth. Is this service instead of the existing Manchester to Bournemouth train? Again, look at what runs on the opposite side of the hour to this train between Basingstoke and Bournemouth.
It isn't clear why you would run trains to any of the destinations you propose from the north rather than from London where they currently run from.
tetudo boy
Member
It's been quite some time. I posted my plan on the fantasy London Underground thread because that was a suitable place to post it. I may start to make more ideas...
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Really your going to call at Beaulieu Road on an IC train and Pokesdown!
tetudo boy
Member
Oh, they are regional services, so I think they deserve a stop there.
Purple Orange
On Moderation
How long would these journeys take? I can’t see how this would benefit people from the south coast or Merseyside. Surely the best way to improve the intercity network from Liverpool is to look at the existing network and see how those services can be enhanced.
I don’t understand the obsession of Liverpool and XC services to everywhere on earth. Capacity is finite on most routes and would have a huge negative effect across most of the network if ever implemented.
Liverpool is hardly short of destinations including important railheads to access those cross country routes (think Stafford). It has direct services to London, Scotland, Newcastle and Birmingham.
Here in little old Bradford we don’t even have an hourly London service which most major cities have as a bare minimum, but we do feed into important railheads to go further afield from the likes of Leeds, Preston, Huddersfield and Manchester. No hardship. You can go nearly everywhere with that combo of connections.
Now, if only we had a direct cross country service from Bradford to Bognor Regis. We could use the Thameslink tunnel to avoid Birmingham.........
Liverpool is hardly short of destinations including important railheads to access those cross country routes (think Stafford). It has direct services to London, Scotland, Newcastle and Birmingham.
Here in little old Bradford we don’t even have an hourly London service which most major cities have as a bare minimum, but we do feed into important railheads to go further afield from the likes of Leeds, Preston, Huddersfield and Manchester. No hardship. You can go nearly everywhere with that combo of connections.
Now, if only we had a direct cross country service from Bradford to Bognor Regis. We could use the Thameslink tunnel to avoid Birmingham.........
Purple Orange
On Moderation
I don’t get it either. XC provide a poor service for the job they are tasked to deliver, so it’s hardly an aspirational target. For those who focus on XC from Liverpool, I think it is either a legacy intercity status thing, or thinking it somehow creates parity with Manchester & Leeds. If LNW operated the Liverpool to Birmingham route with 5-car 125mph capable trains (or I would bet even 5-car LHCS at 100mph), there wouldn’t be a problem.
I’m waiting for the class 88/mk5a combination to rear it’s head as per usual. Apparently you can pull a 12 coach rake from Coventry for hundreds of miles to every south coast resort on its measly little diesel engine even though it’s been rebuffed by those in the know more times than I care to remember.
CBlue
Member
Don't forget, because it's a locomotive and makes loud noises it is instantly superior to a multiple unit, and far more capable in any way including train load capacity....
Ah but 88's don't make loud noises, 68's doDon't forget, because it's a locomotive and makes loud noises it is instantly superior to a multiple unit, and far more capable in any way including train load capacity....
So every train from now on must be 68 hauled - Status