National Express to retain Essex Thameside franchise

[tsr]

Together with the fact the domain nationalexpressessexthameside.co.uk was registered this morning.
http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=nationalexpressessexthameside.co.uk

That's a pretty long URL, and it's not terribly readable. I should imagine someone is simply covering all the bases, rather than actually proposing its use by passengers. It is interesting, nevertheless!

 

[bengley]

That's a pretty long URL, and it's not terribly readable. I should imagine someone is simply covering all the bases, rather than actually proposing its use by passengers. It is interesting, nevertheless!

I believe all of NX's previous web urls have been rather long - nationalexpresseastanglia.co.uk etc...

 

[W230]

I recently had cause to make a day trip to Southend which involved travelling out via Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria and back from Southend Central to Fenchurch Street, and so I had an opportunity to compare the two franchises, one after the other.

I know these things are subjective, but the journey on c2c did feel superior; the trains were clean, smart, and comfortable; the whole set up seemed well-run. In contrast, the Dusty Bins (321s) out of Liverpool Street seemed pretty tired and some of the stations weren't much better.

I don't know what this says (if anything) about the respective management teams, but I certainly feel that from what I saw from this small snapshot, National Express' retention of this franchise was well deserved. Good news!

I did the same last year and thought exactly the same! While i'd like to see larger rail franchises a la TSGN (so maybe merge C2C with GA) I completely agree that it is being run very well. So if it ain't broke...

 

[387star]

National express branding on trains looks odd

 

[maniacmartin]

Companies House has no record of a company whose name starts 'National Express Essex Thameside" so this company does not yet exist

 

[WatcherZero]

Usually seperate companies are set up for bids and operating franchises.

I do feel sorry for users that every station is recieving Harrington Humps rather than proper platform raising though

Just noticed Franchise runs to 2029 but target date for introduction of the 13 extra trains is 2024!

 

[northwichcat]

Companies House has no record of a company whose name starts 'National Express Essex Thameside" so this company does not yet exist

They have registered NXET Trains Limited though.

 

[Chris125]

So as I don't think Electrostars are 2017 Crash Cab Compliant we can assume from that they wont be getting more 377/6 style updated 357's, and presumably it will be one of the new generation designs such as Aventra and Desiro City etc.

379/387s are seemingly compliant with the new standards and whose bodyshell has been used with the backwards compatible 377/6 and 377/7, so there shouldn't be an issue.

Chris

 

[tomuk]

Usually seperate companies are set up for bids and operating franchises.

NXET TRAINS LIMITED
NATIONAL EXPRESS HOUSE BIRMINGHAM COACH STATION
MILL LANE, DIGBETH
BIRMINGHAM
B5 6DD
Company No. 07897267

 

[northwichcat]

I believe all of NX's previous web urls have been rather long - nationalexpresseastanglia.co.uk etc...

Didn't they used to advertise nationalexpress.co.uk as their website and then had a landing page there where you click through to the Coaches site, East Coast site or the East Anglia site?

 

[Sleepy]

They've done a pretty good job on c2c, though it's so self-contained and linear, mucking it up would be quite an accomplished feat.

As only an occasional passenger, I'd say the majority of stations are well-kept, staff are nice, trains are generally quite clean. Can't fault them on much.

Just a shame about some of the pond life pax !

 

[WatcherZero]

NXET TRAINS LIMITED
NATIONAL EXPRESS HOUSE BIRMINGHAM COACH STATION
MILL LANE, DIGBETH
BIRMINGHAM
B5 6DD
Company No. 07897267

Yep set up two and a half years ago and registered as a dormant company.

 

[Grumpy]

Has anyone asked why they need brand new trains?

Surely the 319's have got years of life in them?

 

[theshillito]

Has anyone asked why they need brand new trains?

Surely the 319's have got years of life in them?

'cos us in the North need some!

Joking aside, I thought these were in addition to existing stock, not instead of, unless I mis-read the press release.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Has anyone asked why they need brand new trains?
Surely the 319's have got years of life in them?

I think the simple answer is because they can afford it.
They will pay DfT a premium of £1.5 billion over the 15 years and can therefore make their own rolling stock decisions.
Northern, by contrast, gets £324 million a year in subsidy, so has to go cap in hand to DfT to spend any money on rolling stock (or anything else).

 

[northwichcat]

Yep set up two and a half years ago and registered as a dormant company.

Dormant because if it's active they have to produce annual accounts for the business and that costs money to do even if the turnover is £0.

 

[WatcherZero]

Exactly, the company was set up for future use and hasnt been trading over the last couple of years, though its had a decent turnover of directors.

 

[3141]

Well I agree they have done a good job with c2c but considering their recent East Coast debacle I would have liked to see them ditched altogether ,surprising what money,influence and big business can do to the right peoples memories when it matters
,

It would also be surprising to hear what evidence you have for your assertion.

 

[Grumpy]

I think the simple answer is because they can afford it.
They will pay DfT a premium of £1.5 billion over the 15 years and can therefore make their own rolling stock decisions.
Northern, by contrast, gets £324 million a year in subsidy, so has to go cap in hand to DfT to spend any money on rolling stock (or anything else).

Yes that is a simple answer.
If we assume that new stock will cost more to operate than 319's, then DfT could presumably have instructed/specified that they use 319's and increased the premium received. DfT have chosen to take a smaller premium and allow the locals to have newer trains. Isn't that a gift from the taxpayer?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Which is a pity, as I actually quite like the name "Essex Thameside"!

Me too. 'C2C' is/was a bl**dy awful name!

Subsequent posts do seem to suggest that 'National Express Essex Thameside' will be appearing on trains in the coming months though.

I do feel sorry for users that every station is recieving Harrington Humps rather than proper platform raising though

This might be just me being a (not particularly moan-y I hope!) Northerner "cutting my cloth", but surely Harrington Humps deliver the same practical benefit for a fraction of the cost of raising a whole (8-12 car on c2c I believe) platform? In my book that's a win!

Just noticed Franchise runs to 2029 but target date for introduction of the 13 extra trains is 2024!

If the extra trains are that far in the future, any predictions for either cascades or new build stock will be hard to make accurately. I do suppose that freeing up 17 Electrostars (of a similar vintage to the 357s) from South of the river would be workable by tweaking earlier orders for TSGN or SouthEastern.

 

[Carlisle]

It would also be surprising to hear what evidence you have for your assertion.

If I had treated your company the way NX did with DFT regarding East Coast I very much doubt you would want to welcome me back as a future partner anytime soon

 

[kieron]

Which is a pity, as I actually quite like the name "Essex Thameside"!

I don't. They don't go anywhere near Aylesbury.:-x

Yes that is a simple answer.
If we assume that new stock will cost more to operate than 319's, then DfT could presumably have instructed/specified that they use 319's and increased the premium received.

Not exactly. Increasing the number of carriages available will enable NX to do more of the sort of things which encourage people to buy train tickets. If NX think the extra carriages will attract enough extra people to cover leasing and running them over the franchise, they could offer more than they would have done without them. That just leaves the government covering any promises they make to get the trains built in the first place.

Northern could make the same calculation, but it's harder when you can't charge £3000 a year for a season ticket or fill a 12-car train.

If I had treated your company the way NX did with DFT regarding East Coast I very much doubt you would want to welcome me back as a future partner anytime soon

It's nothing compared to how Serco treated the MoJ. Governments just don't work the same way as everyone else.

 

[306024]

I recently had cause to make a day trip to Southend which involved travelling out via Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria and back from Southend Central to Fenchurch Street, and so I had an opportunity to compare the two franchises, one after the other.

I know these things are subjective, but the journey on c2c did feel superior; the trains were clean, smart, and comfortable; the whole set up seemed well-run. In contrast, the Dusty Bins (321s) out of Liverpool Street seemed pretty tired and some of the stations weren't much better.

I don't know what this says (if anything) about the respective management teams, but I certainly feel that from what I saw from this small snapshot, National Express' retention of this franchise was well deserved. Good news!

That is a fair comparison. I think it is all about stability. Look at the number of times the GA franchise has changed hands, with comparatively short franchises, and constant management change. SWT appears just as smart as c2c and they have had stability in ownership. Also c2c just happen to have newer and better rolling stock at this time. Long while to wait for class 321 replacement.

Still it is an interesting bid, with some novel features. Whoever was the current franchise holder should have kept it because as said elsewhere, it ain't broke.

 

[Carlisle]

It's nothing compared to how Serco treated the MoJ. Governments just don't work the same way as everyone else.

Agreed

 

[northwichcat]

Yes that is a simple answer.
If we assume that new stock will cost more to operate than 319's, then DfT could presumably have instructed/specified that they use 319's and increased the premium received. DfT have chosen to take a smaller premium and allow the locals to have newer trains. Isn't that a gift from the taxpayer?

Newer stock is quite often cheaper to run than older stock (with some exceptions) but the problem is the cost of acquiring the newer stock. Rail North have been asked to look to see if there are any options for acquiring new rolling stock which are better financially then the usual method of someone like Porterbrook or Angel Trains purchasing a number of new trains and then leasing to the TOC.

 

[swt_passenger]

Rail North have been asked to look to see if there are any options for acquiring new rolling stock which are better financially then the usual method...

Well TfL, with their massive financial power, found it couldn't be done with the 378s, so I guess Rail North are probably going to come up with the same conclusion after wasting a load of time and money finding out again...

 

[racyrich]

As a c2c season ticket holder I have particular interest in this.

The punctuality stats are always impressive, usually top 3 of the TOCs.
So I was surprised to see them in the bottom third of the customer satisfaction survery results this week.
I wonder why that is. There are occasional service disasters, but nearly always due to some external cause.
More likely is the overcrowding between Fen St and Barking/Upminster. The advent of Canary Wharf and Westfield
has resulted in far more people joining evening peak trains at Limehouse and West Ham, and they never get a seat.
I'd be more than fed up with that!

So is this the background to the proposed 20 tph Upminster all stopper service. There'll be winners and losers.
The losers will be the vocal and influential Southend commuters. Currently they get the 12 coach (fast) trains, and they're packed.
What benefit is there in stopping already packed trains?

Given the announced 20tph from Upminster, what happens after Barking for the trains from Rainham?
Can Barking to Fen St cope wih more than the 20tph it has now? Or will the Rainham trains start/stop at Barking?
And where will the extra 4 tph at Upminster come from? They can't start from there.
Not from Grays/Ockendon along the single line, surely.
Not Laindon starters either - I can't see it turning round more than the 4tph is already does.
So more from Leigh or beyond? That sounds more beneficial to Southend commuters than outer London commuters.
Wherever they come from, making them 12 coaches is essential for those West Ham and Limehouse passengers,
but we have a 10 year wait for that. Shame.

Anyway, I'll continue as a reasonably content commuter, using coping strategies to get a seat - ie arrive at Fen St at 9.01,
thus ensuring a seat, and be the first on to the train home.

If only c2c could arrange to stop the trespassers, jumpers, taken ill, level crossing crashers, OHLE clothing throwers,
breaking down class 66s, derailing freights, etc, the service would be perfect!

 

[northwichcat]

Well TfL, with their massive financial power, found it couldn't be done with the 378s, so I guess Rail North are probably going to come up with the same conclusion after wasting a load of time and money finding out again...

As Merseytravel are a Rail North partner there is perhaps the option of issuing an ITT with 3 lots for trains for 3 different franchises (Merseyrail, Northern and TPE), allowing the possibility for a manufacturer to quote a reduced price for all 3 instead of pricing and awarding each lot individually, unless that breaches tendering rules.

 

[Class 170101]

I wonder how NX will afford the £1.1billion in premium. Wasn't that franchise in receipt of subsidy before?

 

[daccer]

I was wondering that also. Considering what happened on the East Coast when they over promised I was wondering if the Dft are insisting on a bigger bond from Natex to cover possible defaults.

I see the Virgin award also promises big premiums to Govt also. Maybe as we enter a period of economic growth companies are going to attach more value to rail franchises and Govt will be able to get better deals. The interesting one will be Northern as that will surely not be let as a no growth franchise again and it has already been stated that the Govt expects a big cut in subsidy required. Interesting what the various bidders will make of that.