National Rail & British Transport Police campaign regarding sexual harassment on the Railway

[O L Leigh]

The danger here is that if you get a young man who is let's say, very interested in women and a then a woman who is a nervous wreck he might give a her a look up and down and then she goes and reports me. He is then screwed all because shes a wreck.

And you can't see why that might be a problem for the woman...? So what, she just has to put up with it just to spare this young shaver's situation...?

**EDIT**

Did an unintentional Freudian slip find it's way into your post?

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I feel extremely strongly about this so will try to resist getting involved to much with some of the comments here, but I will say this, the campaign is a joke and is just another piece of the puzzled needed to control the public.

Personally at least, I would rather the BTP go after the fare dodgers, drug/drink addicts as well as the disorderly. Looking out for potential security threats in the forms of bombs, weapons etc should be there number 1 prioity, not Dave who happens to find Emily attractive and gave her a second look which she didn't like.

My quesion to everysingle one of you who support this movement is, have you never seen a woman (or a man depending on gender/sexuality) that you liked the look of and though "damn, he/she is fire" and gave them a second look? If you haven't, well done, if you have then you're in no position to comment as not every man who looks at women is a massive nonse, some of them just like what they see and would never take it any further than just a look unless the woman felt the same about them.

Don't moan at men who look at women if you have ever done it yourself, whether that be on the beech, at work or on a train, it's hypocritcal.

 

[NoOnesFool]

And you can't see why that might be a problem for the woman...? So what, she just has to put up with it just to spare this young shaver's situation...?

**EDIT**

Did an unintentional Freudian slip find it's way into your post?

But he hasn't done anything, why should he be labelled a sex offender because someone else has anxiety issues? I have a fear of dogs but I don't call for them all to be put down as I know my fear is irrational.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

And you can't see why that might be a problem for the woman...? So what, she just has to put up with it just to spare this young shaver's situation...?

**EDIT**

Did an unintentional Freudian slip find it's way into your post?

Not really. I mean, men, younger men especially, are going through puberty and are developing and to teach them that they aren't even allowed to look isn't a good idea.

As for the Freudian, I wouldn't call it that. I would call it protecting mens freedom because in today society, expecially in my age group, women are hardcore against men. I am not condoning sexual harrassment, I am just saying we need to be bloody careful about what we define it as.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I have noticed many people.wearing masks tend to stare more intently. Or is that just my imagination?

 

[Journeyman]

But he hasn't done anything, why should he be labelled a sex offender because someone else has anxiety issues? I have a fear of dogs but I don't call for them all to be put down as I know my fear is irrational.

Being a woman afraid of sexual assault is NOT irrational.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

The do feel for the OP, he has made a point and has had his head torn off and thrown away for it.

I have noticed many people.wearing masks tend to stare more intently. Or is that just my imagination?

No I have seen that. That's what you get for encouraging people to hide their indentity in public.

 

[Journeyman]

I would call it protecting mens freedom

Really? Really??? You really are going down that road?

 

[O L Leigh]

I feel extremely strongly about this so will try to resist getting involved to much with some of the comments here, but I will say this, the campaign is a joke and is just another piece of the puzzled needed to control the public.

Personally at least, I would rather the BTP go after the fare dodgers, drug/drink addicts as well as the disorderly. Looking out for potential security threats in the forms of bombs, weapons etc should be there number 1 prioity, not Dave who happens to find Emily attractive and gave her a second look which she didn't like.

My quesion to everysingle one of you who support this movement is, have you never seen a woman (or a man depending on gender/sexuality) that you liked the look of and though "damn, he/she is fire" and gave them a second look? If you haven't, well done, if you have then you're in no position to comment as not every man who looks at women is a massive nonse, some of them just like what they see and would never take it any further than just a look unless the woman felt the same about them.

Don't moan at men who look at women if you have ever done it yourself, whether that be on the beech, at work or on a train, it's hypocritcal.

Calm down, dear. You're conflating things which isn't helping with the old blood pressure.

I'm sure that there isn't anyone here who hasn't seen someone attractive when out and about. That's not the issue. The issue is the way that some people behave towards others that can put them in fear for their safety.

But he hasn't done anything, why should he be labelled a sex offender because someone else has anxiety issues? I have a fear of dogs but I don't call for them all to be put down as I know my fear is irrational.

That a woman reports someone to the BTP for making her fearful does not automatically mean that they will be labelled as a sex offender. You're taking things several steps too far.

Not really. I mean, men, younger men especially, are going through puberty and are developing and to teach them that they aren't even allowed to look isn't a good idea.

As for the Freudian, I wouldn't call it that. I would call it protecting mens freedom because in today society, expecially in my age group, women are hardcore against men. I am not condoning sexual harrassment, I am just saying we need to be bloody careful about what we define it as.

Nobody has said "don't look". What they're saying is don't stare in such a manner as to cause the object of your gaze becomes fearful for their safety.

The do feel for the OP, he has made a point and has had his head torn off and thrown away for it.

I don't think that's true. He asked our opinions and we have given them. He feels aggrieved by the situation but has been unable to explain just why he feels that way.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Really? Really??? You really are going down that road?

Reality is a woman only has to accuse a man of something and his life is ruined even when he is innocent and that's not right. The woman (rightfully in some) is automatically believed and the days of innocent until proven guilty are long gone, at least in societies eyes.

 

[O L Leigh]

Reality is a woman only has to accuse a man of something and his life is ruined even when he is innocent and that's not right. The woman (rightfully in some) is automatically believed and the days of innocent until proven guilty are long gone, at least in societies eyes.

How have we got from a poster encouraging women to report sexual harassment to ruining young men's lives? As I said a moment ago, you're taking things several steps too far.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Calm down, dear. You're conflating things which isn't helping with the old blood pressure.

At 20 years of age, my blood pressure is just fine aha.

I'm sure that there isn't anyone here who hasn't seen someone attractive when out and about. That's not the issue. The issue is the way that some people behave towards others that can put them in fear for their safety.

We have all done it and we have all given someone a look, but trying to pick out and seperate those doing it harmlessly and those doing it maliciously is very difficult, especially if BTP get it wrong, either way.

That a woman reports someone to the BTP for making her fearful does not automatically mean that they will be labelled as a sex offender. You're taking things several steps too far.

I don't know about that, it won't do him any favours even if he was innocent.

Nobody has said "don't look". What they're saying is don't stare in such a manner as to cause the object of your gaze becomes fearful for their safety.

But what are we defining as too long to look? All women are differant and what makes Sarah uncomforable might be a massive compliment to Emily?
How uncomfortalbe someone is cannot be measured so cannot be inforced.

I don't think that's true. He asked our opinions and we have given them. He feels aggrieved by the situation but has been unable to explain just why he feels that way.

I think, like my self, he can see how much of a dangerous path this is and just how impossible this is to inforce.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Reality is a woman only has to accuse a man of something and his life is ruined even when he is innocent and that's not right. The woman (rightfully in some) is automatically believed and the days of innocent until proven guilty are long gone, at least

Really...?

 

[Charlie Smythe]

How have we got from a poster encouraging women to report sexual harassment to ruining young men's lives? As I said a moment ago, you're taking things several steps too far.

Wait for a women to report and man for sexual harrasment on a train and get him kicked off and when she shouts about it see how it ends for him, the whole train will jump on him even though she has no evidence. The public will always believe the accuser, never the accused which is wrong, everyone should be neutral.

 

[NoOnesFool]

I think, like my self, he can see how much of a dangerous path this is and just how impossible this is to inforce.

Absolutely correct and thank you for your posts.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Really...?

Yes. I don't know about your use of social media but any post where a man is "accused" of anything the comments are full of people calling him a "scum bag" a "waste of space" and how he "should be shot" or "should have it cut off". Has he had a fair trial? No. Has he been found guilty? No.

He has only been accused and people are already calling for him to be put behind bars. I know this and have seen it first had, we had an incident at school exaclty like this with an aquaintance of mine.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes. I don't know about your use of social media but any post where a man is "accused" of anything the comments are full of people calling him a "scum bag" a "waste of space" and how he "should be shot" or "should have it cut off". Has he had a fair trial? No. Has he been found guilty? No.

He has only been accused and people are already calling for him to be put behind bars. I know this and have seen it first had, we had an incident at school exaclty like this with an aquaintance of mine.

Precisely the reason why I don't do social media

 

[Journeyman]

Reality is a woman only has to accuse a man of something and his life is ruined even when he is innocent and that's not right. The woman (rightfully in some) is automatically believed and the days of innocent until proven guilty are long gone, at least in societies eyes.

I think you really need to get off whatever incel forums you're on.

 

[O L Leigh]

Wait for a women to report and man for sexual harrasment on a train and get him kicked off and when she shouts about it see how it ends for him, the whole train will jump on him even though she has no evidence. The public will always believe the accuser, never the accused which is wrong, everyone should be neutral.

I think you need to do yourself a favour and stop worrying about this so much. If this really concerns you maybe you should do some wider reading on the procedures in the criminal justice system in order to put your concerns into some sort of perspective.

As for conduct on the train, just be sensitive. If you look at an attractive lady watch out for cues as to whether or not your attention is welcomed. If it isn't then respect that and give her privacy and turn your attention elsewhere. I can understand that this isn't always intuitive, especially as a younger man, but take some advice from an old fart. Calm down, be respectful and I'm sure all will be fine.

 

[Darandio]

How did such a benign poster/screen end up with over 130 posts, some of them borderline hysterical. Beats me.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I think you really need to get off whatever incel forums you're on.

Facebook. Devon Live. Any digital news outlet reporting this stuff has this issue to a point.

 

[Journeyman]

Facebook. Devon Live. Any digital news outlet reporting this stuff has this issue to a point.

I have very little patience with anyone portraying men as victims here.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I think you need to do yourself a favour and stop worrying about this so much. If this really concerns you maybe you should do some wider reading on the procedures in the criminal justice system in order to put your concerns into some sort of perspective.

It's not a major worry for me, I had never really thought about it much until I saw the OP. I am not talking about issues within the criminal justice system, I am talking about society and it's flaws.

As for conduct on the train, just be sensitive. If you look at an attractive lady watch out for cues as to whether or not your attention is welcomed. If it isn't then respect that and give her privacy and turn your attention elsewhere. I can understand that this isn't always intuitive, especially as a younger man, but take some advice from an old fart. Calm down, be respectful and I'm sure all will be fine.

Don't worry, I already have a girlfriend so I don't look out of respect for her, but most men do.

 

[bramling]

I feel extremely strongly about this so will try to resist getting involved to much with some of the comments here, but I will say this, the campaign is a joke and is just another piece of the puzzled needed to control the public.

Personally at least, I would rather the BTP go after the fare dodgers, drug/drink addicts as well as the disorderly. Looking out for potential security threats in the forms of bombs, weapons etc should be there number 1 prioity, not Dave who happens to find Emily attractive and gave her a second look which she didn't like.

My quesion to everysingle one of you who support this movement is, have you never seen a woman (or a man depending on gender/sexuality) that you liked the look of and though "damn, he/she is fire" and gave them a second look? If you haven't, well done, if you have then you're in no position to comment as not every man who looks at women is a massive nonse, some of them just like what they see and would never take it any further than just a look unless the woman felt the same about them.

Don't moan at men who look at women if you have ever done it yourself, whether that be on the beech, at work or on a train, it's hypocritcal.

I don’t think the issue is about people giving others a second glance - this is basic human behaviour, and without it as a species we would be extinct as it is the basis of relationship forming.

Sustained staring is another thing entirely, it’s perverted and intimidating.

Where the dividing line lies in the feelings of some is the concern I have with it. The poster doesn’t seem as bad as I initially interpreted from the posts on here, if the one pictures is what is the subject of the thread, but to my mind it still sails fairly close to the wind. Someone for example wants a table of four to themselves (not exactly unheard of at the moment!), someone else sits down to be greeted with “are you staring at me?”.

I’d be happier with more emphasis on the harassment part and less on staring.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I have very little patience with anyone portraying men as victims here.

They're not victims, I am just saying that EVERYONE deserves a fair trial and I would hope that you would agree?

Someone for example wants a table of four to themselves (not exactly unheard of at the moment!), someone else sits down to be greeted with “are you staring at me?”.

That's the ways it's going, especailly as my generation become more and more developed and it spreads to those coming through school.

 

[O L Leigh]

Where the dividing line lies in the feelings of some is the concern I have with it. The poster doesn’t seem as bad as I initially interpreted from the posts on here, if the one pictures is what is the subject of the thread, but to my mind it still sails fairly close to the wind. Someone for example wants a table of four to themselves (not exactly unheard of at the moment!), someone else sits down to be greeted with “are you staring at me?”.

And why wouldn't they just say "Excuse me, I'm still a bit nervous about travelling and was hoping to preserve the space around me for my safety. Would it be possible if you didn't sit there?"

 

[bramling]

I have very little patience with anyone portraying men as victims here.

Making it into a men versus female thing isn’t helpful whichever way one looks at it. I recall having an unsettling experience as a child when travelling home from London in the early evening, a man passed comment on the concourse something along the lines of “I’d love to get you in to bed”, which I didn’t think much more of until I noticed later on he was in the same carriage as me on the train. It didn’t bother me massively as the train wasn’t empty, and I was relatively streetwise in what to do should anything occur, but I still found it rather creepy. This was before the days of mobile phones, so a number to text wouldn’t have been particularly helpful then.

 

[O L Leigh]

It's not a major worry for me, I had never really thought about it much until I saw the OP. I am not talking about issues within the criminal justice system, I am talking about society and it's flaws.

That's great, but I still think you're worrying too much about it. Social media isn't the real world, and no matter what others say it won't have a lasting effect. All that's happening is that the schoolyard gossip of old has had a technological upgrade but, like schoolyard gossip, will soon be forgotten or overtaken by something new.

Making it into a men versus female thing isn’t helpful whichever way one looks at it.

I agree, and certainly acknowledge that men can be the recipients of unwanted attention too. Fortunately this campaign makes no such distinction.

 

[bramling]

And why wouldn't they just say "Excuse me, I'm still a bit nervous about travelling and was hoping to preserve the space around me for my safety. Would it be possible if you didn't sit there?"

Because the response in a lot of cases round here would likely involve being told where to go, from what I’ve seen over the summer.

 

[py_megapixel]

So the argument is "We should avoid encouraging people to report harassing behaviour which makes them feel uncomfortable, because some people in random comments sections might jump to conclusions." The phrase "tail wags the dog" comes to mind...

The wording of the poster itself could be improved slightly and the most important sections could be made easier to read, but I think the fundamental message behind it is quite important.