National Routeing Guide update

[SargeNpton]

Previously there were no T (include TOC) records in the .RGK file for route 00486.

The only change from 06/07 is that now there is a T record ( just one ) - for EM.

If there are any T records listed then all timetabled legs of a journey must be provided by one of the TOCs listed.

@kieron is therefore correct to list the TOCs which don't have a T record listed (ie everything except EM) as "may not use".

I guess whoever made the change didn't realize that's how T records work (and assumed that they need only apply for 'at least one leg'). ( That's consistent with the now redundant X ( exclude TOC) record for GC being left in place.)

That "all" is not specified in the Routeing Guide data feed standard.

 

[JB_B]

That "all" is not specified in the Routeing Guide data feed standard.

Do you mean in RSPS5047 ? - yes, it's left completely unspecified there.

I understand that the ( non-public ) guidance to journey planner developers makes this requirement explicit.

 

[SargeNpton]

Do you mean in RSPS5047 ? - yes, it's left completely unspecified there.

I understand that the ( non-public ) guidance to journey planner developers makes this requirement explicit.

There should be no "non-public" guidance. RSPS5047 is the definitive document. In that, T records show which TOC/TOCs services must be included, whilst X records show those that are barred. The inclusion of one or more TOCs in a T record does not automatically exclude other TOCs being used for part of the journey.

 

[Confused52]

I wonder how a court would regard a prosecution for not obeying a restriction that you were not allowed to see!

 

[Deafdoggie]

I wonder how a court would regard a prosecution for not obeying a restriction that you were not allowed to see!

What a reasonable person would interpret the rules as.

 

[ABB125]

With all this debate about what is and isn't a restriction, is it any wonder that people want fares reform?

 

[JB_B]

There should be no "non-public" guidance. [1] RSPS5047 is the definitive document. [2] In that, T records show which TOC/TOCs services must be included, whilst X records show those that are barred. The inclusion of one or more TOCs in a T record does not automatically exclude other TOCs being used for part of the journey.[3]

[1] That is common ground - there shouldn't be - I couldn't agree with you more. ( I'm guessing that - like me - you work outside the rail industry?)

[2] I agree - RSPS5047 is certainly meant to be definitive and it would be lovely if it was free from ambiguity (but it isn't).

[3] That might be a reasonable assumption ( and indeed that is what I assumed at first. ) Have a look at how other "& Connections" routes are defined - can you spot a pattern?

 

[alistairlees]

I would not interpret T as exclude all others.

 

[Watershed]

I wonder how a court would regard a prosecution for not obeying a restriction that you were not allowed to see!

The only restrictions that legally apply are those communicated to the customer. Otherwise they aren't capable of being terms of the contract and hence restrictions.

The issue here surrounds whether booking engines are able to sell certain tickets on certain itineraries.

 

[Paul Kelly]

It sounds to me like there may be some confusion here between the include/exclude TOC per-route records in the routeing guide data, and the main/connecting TOC per-ticket records in the fares data - the latter do indeed work as SargeNpton is describing.

 

[kieron]

A route code was changed in the routeing guide this afternoon.

Changes from 06 Jul 2022 (393) to 09 Jul 2022 (394).​

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Route changes:​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

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AP EMR & CONNECT (00486) (5943 records)​

must not go via Crewe (CRE) or Huntingdon (HUN)​

must use EM​

must not use GC​

may not use AW, CC, CH, CS, GCEM, GN, GR, GW, GX, HT, HX, IL, LD, LE, LM, LO, ME, NT, SE, SN, SR, SW, TL, TP, VT, XC or XR​

This reverses Wednesday's change. If that was a temporary measure, and a longer term solution is now in place, then that doesn't involve this data feed.

The only other change was to clear the "zone" field for a number of places in the Location table (Barking Riverside and the EL stations for Abbey Wood, Whitechapel, Liverpool Street, Farringdon and Paddington). I don't know what effect this has.

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The following post was made on 13 July 2022.

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Some fare routes were added to the routeing guide data yesterday.

Changes from 09 Jul 2022 (394) to 12 Jul 2022 (395).​

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Route changes:​

​

Added:​

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HULLTRS&NORTHERN (01407) (4 records)​

must use HT or NT​

may not use AW, CC, CH, CS, EM, GC, GN, GR, GW, GX, HX, IL, LD, LE, LM, LO, ME, SE, SN, SR, SW, TL, TP, VT, XC or XR​

​

HULTRNS &NRTHN (01408) (4 records)​

must use HT or NT​

may not use AW, CC, CH, CS, EM, GC, GN, GR, GW, GX, HX, IL, LD, LE, LM, LO, ME, SE, SN, SR, SW, TL, TP, VT, XC or XR​

These routes (for Advance and flexible tickets respectively) are used for tickets between London and Sheffield, Meadowhall and Barnsley. The flexible Sheffield and Meadowhall fares match the existing "Hull Trains & TPE" ones.

In addition, some changes to the routeing guide were published this afternoon.

Changes from 12 Jul 2022 (395) to 13 Jul 2022 (396).​

​

Station Association changes:​

Barking Riverside (BGV) is now associated with Barking (BKG).​

​

Station link changes:​

Barking (BKG) to Barking Riverside (BGV) now has a distance of 2.82.​

​

Cross-London journey changes:​

Cross-London transfers may now be made from Barking Riverside (BGV).​

​

Non-NFM64 station changes:​

Barking Riverside (BGV) now uses NFM64 fares for Barking (BKG) (13/07/2022-)​

GBV now uses NFM64 fares for Barking (BKG) (13/07/2022-)​

This means that everything the routeing data needs before tickets can be sold from Barking Riverside is now in place. There are no fares yet.

Easement changes:​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

700988 (Map) During engineering work closures of the Severn Tunnel between Friday 01 July 2022 and Sunday 10 17 July 2022, this map easement will allow journeys that have permitted routes via Severn Tunnel (but not via Chepstow) to travel via Gloucester, Chepstow and Newport . The easement operates in both directions.​

700989 (Local) The Severn Tunnel will be closed between 01 and 10 17 July 2022. Customers from Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney travelling to Cam & Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway , Filton Abbeywood, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road and Bristol Temple Meads, or to destinations via Bristol Parkway may travel on trains via Gloucester to avoid using the rail replacement bus service. This Local easement applies in both directions.​

700990 (Fare route) The Severn Tunnel will be closed between 01 and 10 17 July 2022. Customers travelling from Chepstow and Lydney with tickets priced on route (00843) VIA SEVERN TUNNEL JUNCTION, may travel via Gloucester. This Fare Route easement applies in both directions.​

700991 (Routeing Point) The Severn Tunnel will be closed between 01 and 10 17 July 2022. Customers from Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney travelling to Cam & Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway , Filton Abbeywood, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road and Bristol Temple Meads, or to destinations via Bristol Parkway may travel on trains via Gloucester to avoid using the rail replacement bus service. This Routeing Point easement applies in both directions.​

These are extended to cover next weekend. Part of the line is due to be closed on Sunday.

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The following post was made on 15 July 2022.

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A change was published in the routeing guide data this afternoon.

Changes from 13 Jul 2022 (396) to 15 Jul 2022 (397).​

​

Non-NFM64 station changes:​

GBV no longer uses NFM64 fares for Barking (BKG) (13/07/2022-)​

This appears to have been a typo.

 

[kieron]

The following changes were published on Thursday.

Changes from 03 Aug 2022 (398) to 04 Aug 2022 (399).​

​

Easement changes:​

​

Removed:​

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700986 (Fare route) During engineering works on the weekends of 16/17 and 23/24 July 2022 journeys from Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street and Worcester Shrub Hill to destinations beyond Swindon priced on routes (00799) LONDON EVESHAM, (00805) VIA EVESHAM and (00433) AP EVESHAM will be valid for travel via Stroud or CAM and Dursley. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

​

700988 (Map) During engineering work closures of the Severn Tunnel between Friday 01 July 2022 and Sunday 17 July 2022, this map easement will allow journeys that have permitted routes via Severn Tunnel (but not via Chepstow) to travel via Gloucester, Chepstow and Newport . The easement operates in both directions.​

​

700989 (Local) The Severn Tunnel will be closed between 01 and 17 July 2022. Customers from Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney travelling to Cam & Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway , Filton Abbeywood, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road and Bristol Temple Meads, or to destinations via Bristol Parkway may travel on trains via Gloucester to avoid using the rail replacement bus service. This Local easement applies in both directions.​

​

700990 (Fare route) The Severn Tunnel will be closed between 01 and 17 July 2022. Customers travelling from Chepstow and Lydney with tickets priced on route (00843) VIA SEVERN TUNNEL JUNCTION, may travel via Gloucester. This Fare Route easement applies in both directions.​

​

700991 (Routeing Point) The Severn Tunnel will be closed between 01 and 17 July 2022. Customers from Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney travelling to Cam & Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway , Filton Abbeywood, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road and Bristol Temple Meads, or to destinations via Bristol Parkway may travel on trains via Gloucester to avoid using the rail replacement bus service. This Routeing Point easement applies in both directions.​

​

700995 (Fare route) During engineering works over the weekends of the 16/17 and 23/24 July 2022, customers travelling from Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcestershire Parkway to Didcot and beyond. With tickets priced on routes (00799) LONDON EVESHAM, (00805) VIA EVESHAM and (00433) AP EVESHAM, may travel on trains via Stroud or Cam & Dursley. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

​

700996 (Map) During engineering works over the weekends of the 16/17 and 23/24 July 2022, customers travelling from Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcestershire Parkway to Didcot and beyond. With tickets priced on routes (00799) LONDON EVESHAM, (00805) VIA EVESHAM and (00433) AP EVESHAM. May travel on train services via Bristol Parkway and/or Swindon. This map easement applies in both directions​

The dates for these have all passed.

Added:​

​

701011 (Map) During engineering work route closures between the 18 and 23 September 2022, journeys between the west country to or via Bristol Temple Meads can be routed via Westbury and Bath Spa. This map easement applies in both directions​

​

701012 (Doubleback) During engineering work route closures between the 18 and 23 September 2022, journeys to or via Taunton may doubleback between Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa. This temporary doubleback easement applies easement applies in both directions​

Crosscountry trains are due to go from Taunton to Bristol non-stop via Trowbridge. These easements mean that you can use those trains, even if your destination is east of Bath.

701013 (Map) During engineering work closures between 24 September and 11 October 2022, impacting journeys to and via Dorchester and Yeovil to the West Country, Bristol and beyond. Customers with tickets routed on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00955) GWR ONLY, (00829) VIA YEOVIL, (00818) NOT VIA BRISTOL and (00817 VIA BRISTOL will be able to travel via Southampton and Salisbury. This map easement to apply in both directions​

The line is due to be closed between Dorchester and Yeovil then, and the last trains between Salisbury and Yeovil are also replaced by buses.

This easement permits mapped routes to include the routes between Weymouth and Eastleigh, Southampton, Westbury, Castle Cary and Exeter, as well as some routes which avoid Westbury group. The data version also covers . (01000) tickets, but not ones to, from or via Basingstoke or Fareham.

This doesn't cover other routes, such as "via Thornford & Honiton" or "not via London", and doesn't affect journeys (such as Axminster-Dorchester) which fail the fare check.

701014 (Fare route) Due to engineering work closures between 24 September and 11 October 2022, journeys to or via Yeovil on tickets routed on (00829) VIA YEOVIL will be able to travel via Brockenhurst. Tickets priced on route (00955) GWR ONLY will be able to travel via Yeovil Junction and Salisbury. These fare route easements will apply in both directions​

This easement does two things.

It permits a longer route with "via Yeovil" tickets (Menheniot-Dorchester ones, for instance), provided you also go through Yeovil Junction.

It removes two of the restrictions ("not Yeovil Junction" and "not Salisbury") for one of the "GWR only" routes. GWR do not call at Yeovil Junction, and I haven't seen anything to suggest they will during the engineering works.

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The following post was made on 14 August 2020.

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Some more changes were published in the routeing guide on Thursday.

Changes from 04 Aug 2022 (399) to 11 Aug 2022 (400).​

​

Easement changes:​

​

Added:​

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701015 (Local) The Severn Tunnel will be closed on Sunday 14 August 2022. Customers from Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney travelling to Cam & Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway , Filton Abbeywood, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road and Bristol Temple Meads, or to destinations via Bristol Parkway may travel on trains via Gloucester to avoid using the rail replacement bus service. This Local easement applies in both directions.​

The line through the Severn Tunnel is closed on Sunday morning. The line between Lydney and Gloucester is also closed then, so there are buses on both routes. There are supposed to be two trains which go that way anyway, but they're non-stop between Newport and Swindon, so of no help here.

701016 (Fare route) The Severn Tunnel will be closed on 14 August 2022. Customers travelling from Chepstow and Lydney with tickets priced on route (00843) VIA SEVERN TUNNEL JUNCTION, may travel via Gloucester. This Fare Route easement applies in both directions.​

The "via Severn Tunnel Junction" route is only used for journeys from Chepstow and Lydney to places in and around Bristol. Journeys from Caldicot typically use "any permitted" for these, so don't need an easement.

701017 (Routeing Point) The Severn Tunnel will be closed on 14 August 2022. Customers from Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney travelling to Cam & Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway , Filton Abbeywood, Lawrence Hill, Stapleton Road and Bristol Temple Meads, or to destinations via Bristol Parkway may travel on trains via Gloucester to avoid using the rail replacement bus service. This Routeing Point easement applies in both directions.​

The definition for this is identical to 701015 except for the easement type.

701018 (Fare route) During engineering works over the weekends of the 10/11, 17/18, 24/25 September and 01/02 October 2022. Customers travelling from Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcestershire Parkway to Didcot and beyond. With tickets priced on routes (00799) LONDON EVESHAM, (00805) VIA EVESHAM and (00433) AP EVESHAM, may travel on trains via Stroud . This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

There are no trains between Didcot, Oxford and Hanborough then. Travelling via Stroud would enable some passengers to avoid the area.

701019 (Map) During engineering works over the weekends of the 10/11, 17/18, 24/25 September and 01/02 October. Customers travelling from Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcestershire Parkway to Didcot and beyond. With tickets priced on routes (00799) LONDON EVESHAM, (00805) VIA EVESHAM and (00433) AP EVESHAM, may travel on trains via Stroud and Swindon . This map easement applies in both directions.​

This ensures that there is a mapped route via Stroud (Worcester-Cheltenham-Gloucester-Stroud-Swindon, in fact) for tickets which are normally only valid via Evesham, provided that there are any mapped routes at all for the ticket in question.

701020 (Routeing Point) During engineering work closures between 24 September and 11 October 2022, impacting journeys to and via Dorchester South from or via Yeovil Junction, Sherborne, Templecombe, Gillingham (Dorset) and Tisbury. Customers with tickets routed on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00955) GWR ONLY, (00829) VIA YEOVIL, (00818) NOT VIA BRISTOL and (00817 VIA BRISTOL will be able to travel via Salisbury and Brockenhurst. This routeing point easement to apply in both​

To be clear, Salisbury is the station which this turns into a valid routeing point for the above tickets (as well as . (01000), which isn't mentioned). For anyone with a ticket which is associated with Salisbury, but isn't listed above, it restricts the benefit to journeys via Yeovil.

Route changes:​

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Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

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TILBRY&GRAVESND (00013) (105 records)​

must go via Gravesend (GRV) and Tilbury Town (TIL)​

must not go via London Blackfriars (BFR), London Cannon Street (CST), Ebbsfleet International (EBD), London Fenchurch Street (FST), London Bridge (LBG), London Liverpool Street (LST), Northfleet (NFL), Stratford International (SFA), Stratford (SRA), London Victoria (VIC) or London Waterloo (East) (WAE)​

must include ferry transfer​

The link in the timetable changed from a walk+ferry combination to a "transfer" in June.

 

[kieron]

Some changes to easements in the routeing guide were published yesterday:

Changes from 11 Aug 2022 (400) to 18 Aug 2022 (401).

Easement changes:

Added:

701021 (Circuitous Route) Customers travelling with a London Terminals destination ticket e.g London Liverpool Street or London Paddington from or via Finsbury Park via London St Pancras International and the Elizabeth Line may not travel via Faringdon. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions​

This seems like slightly unfortunate timing, as it was published on the day before a strike, and seems to cover one of the routes between Kings Cross and Moorgate which was actually running.

That said, nre.co.uk (for one) would never suggest that route with any ticket as it does not appear to be aware of the walking route between Liverpool Street EL and Moorgate.

701022 (Fare route) During service changes on Saturday 20 August 2022. Tickets priced on (00063) VIA NEWBURY and (00494) AP NEWBURY will be valid via Didcot Parkway and Swindon. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

GWR only plan to run trains on a few routes on Saturday, and these don't include any through Newbury. This easement means that someone with (say) a "via Newbury" Westbury-London ticket can use it on one of the trains which they plan to run.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):
701020 (Routeing Point) During engineering work closures between 24 September and 11 October 2022, impacting journeys to and via Dorchester South from or via Yeovil Junction, Sherborne, Templecombe, Gillingham (Dorset) and Tisbury. Customers with tickets routed on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00955) GWR ONLY, (00829) VIA YEOVIL, (00818) NOT VIA BRISTOL and (00817 VIA BRISTOL will be able to travel via Salisbury and Brockenhurst. This routeing point easement to apply in both directions.​

This just adds a missing word.

Another easement was added this afternoon.

Changes from 18 Aug 2022 (401) to 19 Aug 2022 (402).

Easement changes:

Added:

701023 (Fare route) During service alterations on 20 August 2022, journeys from Grays, Tilbury River and Tilbury Town to Upminster with tickets priced on (00114) VIA GRAYS and (00298) VIA OCKENDON are valid on journeys via Stanford Le Hope and Pitsea. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

These journeys only have "via Grays" or "via Ockendon" day tickets, so this easement means that you can buy valid tickets for them.

 

[miklcct]

701021 (Circuitous Route) Customers travelling with a London Terminals destination ticket e.g London Liverpool Street or London Paddington from or via Finsbury Park via London St Pancras International and the Elizabeth Line may not travel via Faringdon. This circuitous route easement applies in both directionsThis seems like slightly unfortunate timing, as it was published on the day before a strike, and seems to cover one of the routes between Kings Cross and Moorgate which was actually running.

That said, nre.co.uk (for one) would never suggest that route with any ticket as it does not appear to be aware of the walking route between Liverpool Street EL and Moorgate.

Can you explain more about this? I don't understand how one is supposed to travel from Finsbury Park to Paddington without using Farringdon.

Also, I don't understand how Paddington comes into consideration of London Terminals ticket here. Isn't it well known by long existing rules that a London Terminals ticket can't be used beyond London into Farringdon? What does this easement do exactly?

 

[Paul Kelly]

That easement does not make much sense at all. If travelling on a London Terminals ticket then your ticket has already expired when you reach Farringdon as you have left the London Terminals group. That's not really anything to do with the routeing guide.

 

[Haywain]

That easement does not make much sense at all. If travelling on a London Terminals ticket then your ticket has already expired when you reach Farringdon as you have left the London Terminals group. That's not really anything to do with the routeing guide.

I guess a booking engine has offered something like Potter Bar to London Terminals as a trip to Paddington via Farringdon and the easement is designed to stop that happening.

 

[Birmingham]

701018 (Fare route) During engineering works over the weekends of the 10/11, 17/18, 24/25 September and 01/02 October 2022. Customers travelling from Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcestershire Parkway to Didcot and beyond. With tickets priced on routes (00799) LONDON EVESHAM, (00805) VIA EVESHAM and (00433) AP EVESHAM, may travel on trains via Stroud . This fare route easement applies in both directions.There are no trains between Didcot, Oxford and Hanborough then. Travelling via Stroud would enable some passengers to avoid the area.

701019 (Map) During engineering works over the weekends of the 10/11, 17/18, 24/25 September and 01/02 October. Customers travelling from Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcestershire Parkway to Didcot and beyond. With tickets priced on routes (00799) LONDON EVESHAM, (00805) VIA EVESHAM and (00433) AP EVESHAM, may travel on trains via Stroud and Swindon . This map easement applies in both directions.This ensures that there is a mapped route via Stroud (Worcester-Cheltenham-Gloucester-Stroud-Swindon, in fact) for tickets which are normally only valid via Evesham, provided that there are any mapped routes at all for the ticket in question.

Yet on this occasion GWR is not bothering to run any diverted trains from Worcester to London Paddington. All terminating at Hanborough where nobody in Worcester wants to go. May as well save money and go with West Midlands Trains for half the price and the same amount of hassle.

 

[4COR]

That easement does not make much sense at all. If travelling on a London Terminals ticket then your ticket has already expired when you reach Farringdon as you have left the London Terminals group. That's not really anything to do with the routeing guide.

Is a London Terminals ticket not valid to Moorgate via Kings Cross using the underground and inter-availability (allowing a change at Farringdon back onto the Elizabeth?) Maybe that's part of the change? (I presume the gateline at Paddington takes London Terminals as valid regardless of origin?)

 

[Haywain]

Is a London Terminals ticket not valid to Moorgate via Kings Cross using the underground and inter-availability (allowing a change at Farrington back onto the Elizabeth?) Maybe that's part of the change? (I presume the gateline at Paddington takes London Terminals as valid regardless of origin?)

It has that availability but I don't think booking engines have ever shown that, so this easement wouldn't have any material effect.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Is a London Terminals ticket not valid to Moorgate via Kings Cross using the underground and inter-availability (allowing a change at Farringdon back onto the Elizabeth?) Maybe that's part of the change? (I presume the gateline at Paddington takes London Terminals as valid regardless of origin?)

The inter-availability hasn't been updated since the Crossrail Central Operating Section opened to the public. It remains as:

• Finsbury Park - Highbury and Islington (via the Victoria Line)
• Finsbury Park - King's Cross St Pancras (via the Piccadilly or Victoria Lines, but intermediately only at Highbury and Islington)
• King's Cross St Pancras - Moorgate (via the Circle, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan or Northern Lines, but intermediately only at Old Street)

 

[philjo]

I guess a booking engine has offered something like Potter Bar to London Terminals as a trip to Paddington via Farringdon and the easement is designed to stop that happening.

I know in the past the TVMs at some GN stations would by default offer the London Terminals fare even if the selected destination is London Blackfriars or London Bridge. The London Thameslink fare was also listed as a higher price option but most people would just select the default cheapest listed fare to London Terminals. Not sure if that is still the case as I haven’t looked recently. So blocking Farringdon may also assist with these cases.

 

[Watershed]

I know in the past the TVMs at some GN stations would by default offer the London Terminals fare even if the selected destination is London Blackfriars or London Bridge. The London Thameslink fare was also listed as a higher price option but most people would just select the default cheapest listed fare to London Terminals. Not sure if that is still the case as I haven’t looked recently. So blocking Farringdon may also assist with these cases.

It wouldn't, because the easements only come into it when you plan a journey. "Dumb" TVMs just see that the fare is to London Terminals, and London Blackfriars is a London Terminal, so as far as they're concerned, that's fine.

 

[miklcct]

It wouldn't, because the easements only come into it when you plan a journey. "Dumb" TVMs just see that the fare is to London Terminals, and London Blackfriars is a London Terminal, so as far as they're concerned, that's fine.

I believe that the London Terminals feed provides the information that which terminal a London Terminals ticket is valid to.

Therefore, if I choose a London Terminal which isn't listed in the feed, the machine shouldn't show a ticket to London Terminals, but show one to London Thameslink (if available) or one to London Underground Zone 1.

 

[Watershed]

I believe that the London Terminals feed provides the information that which terminal a London Terminals ticket is valid to.

The London Terminals data feed is in no way authoritative, and indeed it contains many errors and omissions. Journey planners are allowed to offer itineraries to London Terminals even if they're not listed as valid in the feed!

Therefore, if I choose a London Terminal which isn't listed in the feed, the machine shouldn't show a ticket to London Terminals, but show one to London Thameslink (if available) or one to London Underground Zone 1.

In theory this is probably how it should work (although, as above, it would not be perfect). But it will probably be a moot point once more TVMs become journey planner based, as will inevitably happen over time.

 

[kieron]

Can you explain more about this? I don't understand how one is supposed to travel from Finsbury Park to Paddington without using Farringdon.

When an easement says you must not do something, it doesn't say anything about what you are allowed to do. Here, the hope is probably that anyone who wishes to travel from Finsbury Park to Paddington buys a different ticket.

Also, I don't understand how Paddington comes into consideration of London Terminals ticket here. Isn't it well known by long existing rules that a London Terminals ticket can't be used beyond London into Farringdon? What does this easement do exactly?

I can't say, off-hand, what the Farringdon restriction is based on. What I do know is that, with this change, nre.co.uk went from offering a ticket to London Terminals if you requested a Huntingdon-London Liverpool Street journey via Farringdon to only offering a combination of tickets.

As a comparison, if you request a Huntingdon-Whitechapel journey (for which the only point-to-point tickets are "not via London" ones) with an itinerary involving Elizabeth Line, it suggests a ticket to London Zones 1-2.

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The following post was made on 21 August 2020.

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I've just found out (thanks, JB_B) that there was an update earlier in the month which I thought I had posted a summary for, but hadn't actually posted it here.

The following changes were published on 3/8.

Changes from 15 Jul 2022 (397) to 03 Aug 2022 (398).

Permitted Route changes:

Chinley (CLY) to Leeds Group (G16) gain HO+YY​

This now has mapped routes which go via Sheffield and Barnsley.

Easement changes:

Added:

701008 (Circuitous Route) Customers traveling from or via Guildford to or via Woking, or travelling from or via Guildford to or via Feltham, may not travel via Heathrow Airport. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions.​

The data for this easement also applies its restriction to journeys between Guildford and Ash Vale, Byfleet & New Haw and Farnborough (Main).

701009 (Routeing Point) Customers travelling to Margate from Dalston Junction, Haggerston, Hoxton, Whitechapel, Shoreditch High Street, Shadwell, Wapping, Rotherhithe and Canada Water may travel via Highbury & Islington and St Pancras International. This routeing point easement will override NFM64 fares checking, and operates in both directions.​

The stations between Dalston Junction and Canada Water all use the NFM64 fares for Surrey Quays. I imagine this was the result of a request, as there are other station in Kent which are in the same position as Margate. Dover and Ramsgate are two.

701010 (Map) Customers travelling from Tonbridge on tickets priced on fare route (00131) PLUS HS1 to Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and St Pancras International may travel via Ashford International. This map easement applies in both directions.​

As this is an easement rather than a map combination, it doesn't affect the valid routes for (say) a Wadhurst-Ebbsfleet ticket.

Tunbridge Wells-Ebbsfleet tickets (or rather, the valid routes web sites show for them) would be unaffected by either version, as they all have a "not via London/Ebbsfleet" route code.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

701005 (Map) Due to engineering works, on the 13/14, 20/21 and 29 August 2022, customers travelling on Sundays 14th and 21st of August and Monday 29th August from Stansted Airport to central London or via central London may travel to London Kings Cross via Cambridge and Hitchin. This map easement applies in both directions​

This no longer affects Saturdays.

701006 (Routeing Point) Due to engineering works, on the 13/14, 20/21 and 29 August 2022, customers travellingcustomers travelling on Sundays 14th and 21st of August and Monday 29th August from Elsenham (Essex), Newport (Essex), Audley End, Great Chesterford, Whittlesford Parkway and Shelford (Cambs) to central London or via central London may travel to London Kings Cross via Cambridge and Hitchin. This routeing point easement applies in both directions​

This no longer affects Saturdays, and the data for the easement (which is a little different to the text) is now a bit more restrictive.

Location changes:

Gain: nlc=0246 crs=WRO uic=70 county=00 (20/07/2022-)
Gain: nlc=8515 crs=ELN uic=70 county=00 (20/07/2022-)​

This adds Elland and White Rose (Leeds) to one of the data files they'll be needed in before tickets can be sold.

 

[miklcct]

701008 (Circuitous Route) Customers traveling from or via Guildford to or via Woking, or travelling from or via Guildford to or via Feltham, may not travel via Heathrow Airport. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions.The data for this easement also applies its restriction to journeys between Guildford and Ash Vale, Byfleet & New Haw and Farnborough (Main).

Some forum members questioned the acceptance of rail ticket on the bus beforehand when they obtained an itinerary on strike days from Guildford, involving the use of RailAir services and transferring at the airport.

This easement will prevent such journeys to be sold against such itinerary.

 

[infobleep]

Some forum members questioned the acceptance of rail ticket on the bus beforehand when they obtained an itinerary on strike days from Guildford, involving the use of RailAir services and transferring at the airport.

This easement will prevent such journeys to be sold against such itinerary.

Indeed. I was one who raised it. However, I couldn't see how it could be used in practice, given the bus drivers would be checking tickets prior to boarding.

I had no private message from anyone explaining how they were using it.

 

[Kilopylae]

This feels like they should really have tried to fix the underlying hole in the logic rather than just slapped an easement on it

 

[Paul Kelly]

the underlying hole in the logic

Well can you define what eactly the hole is?!

 

[Watershed]

Well can you define what eactly the hole is?!

I suppose the fundamental issue is that buses have zero mileage in the data and therefore can be 'daisychained' together. But with only a limited number of bus links out there, it's probably a fairly niche issue.