NatWest switching from Maestro to Visa Debit: any TOCs not accepting them?

[jamesontheroad]

Hello. Got a letter from National Westminster today letting me know that I should be jolly excited about my new debit card, arriving soon. Along with all the RBS banks (RBS, Natwest and Ulster Bank) Maestro debit cards are being replaced by Visa Debit (note: not Visa Electron).

My girlfriend already has one, and has problems in the past using it to buy train tickets from a ScotRail ticket machine. I know that Adavantix may be getting updated to accept them, but could anyone report / clarify whether I will have difficulties using Visa Debit to buy tickets on train, or at stations. I primarily use my debit card to buy tickets from Scotrail, but also online from East Coast.

Thanks!

 

[philjo]

HSBC changed their cards over to visa debit last year. Not had any problems using visa debit at FCC stations for the ticket offices or the machines.
I haven't tried using it for online bookings as I usually use the credit card for that.

 

[Greenback]

You should not have any problems. I've had a Visa Debit for years and never any encountered any problems anywhere. I've booked train tickets online, at machines, and in person, and I;ve also bought foreign bus tickets, ferry tickets, plane tickets, and all sorts of other things!

 

[northwichcat]

Visa Debit allow off-line transaction i.e. they don't need to first check the money is in your account to allow you to use it so should be accepted anywhere. Visa Electron is on-line so their use is limited.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, we never accepted Electorn or Solo when I worked in the ticket office. We accepted all other cards, even if we had to write it out manually (like with the French Carte Bleu!)

 

[jopsuk]

Visa Debit is pretty much accepted everywhere Visa Credit is. I've used Visa Debit for years, never had any problems with acceptence.

 

[Ivo]

I have had a NatWest Visa Debit since September and am yet to find anywhere that doesn't accept it. In my opinion, if Cardiff Queen Street will accept it for a transaction of less than £3...

 

[Royston Vasey]

Visa Debit is more ubiquitous than Maestro internationally. I've never had a problem with mine anywhere, the only problem I've had in this country is using my Amex - I gather than transaction fee to the retailer is (or was) much higher than Visa/MC/Maestro etc.

jamesontheroad, are you definitely sure your g/f isn't talking about an Electron?

 

[jamesontheroad]

jamesontheroad, are you definitely sure your g/f isn't talking about an Electron?

I'll check - she's had both in the last two years, but IIRC had difficulties even after the 'upgrade' from Electron to Debit.

 

[CarterUSM]

ScotRail have always accepted visa debit. Must have been a problem with the relevant TVM.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Thanks. Mostly an issue because the TVM at Queens Park (our local station) have had the coin and banknote facilities removed.

 

[Max]

Visa Debit is pretty much universally accepted. Personally though, I have always had problems with using them when buying on the train, whilst I have never had any issues with my Visa Credit card in this situation.

 

[CarterUSM]

That's right jamesontheroad. It is unlikely these machines will take cash again unless something is done to make them more secure. They have been getting robbed at less salubrious locations left, right, and centre. This has also led to a relaxation of the buy before you board policy in regard to TVM's. Though I was never one for enforcing that particular arguement starter, certainly not from an unmanned station anyway machine or not.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Thanks CarterUSM. I always diligently buy before boarding because, although my g/f no longer has one, I have a 16-25 railcard and the discount makes using the train in Glasgow much more attractive than the bus (note to First Group: I know you operate both the trains and the buses in my part of Glasgow, but isn't a 71% increase in bus fares in 7 years taking the **** a bit? )

 

[CarterUSM]

That's great mate, it will save you a bit of bother. I was a T.E some years ago and some of my then colleagues in the grade were of the 'severe' variety if you had not purchased travel documentation.

 

[clagmonster]

I have a Visa debit card, and all booking office machines work fine with it, as do internet transactions. I have never trusted station passenger operated ticket machines with my card, so can't comment on those. However, the two cards I have had from my bank have always failed to work when using Avanitx machines when buying from the guard, so I have had to sign the receipt rather than the chip and pin method. A couple of guards have told me that the machines are at fault and for some reason they dislike certain cards, and my bank denies all responsibility, but have said off the record that they no of others who have had the same problem.

 

[Death]

I managed to purchase a ticket on the LM website earlier this morning with my Natwest Maestro card, and the LM booking interface is showing that as having completed successfully...So the Maestro system is still up and running, at least. If ye are having problems with thy Visa Debit and havn't already destroyed thy old Maestro card, ye could always keep use of the former until it expires and then use the latter.

Caution: If ye have already used thy new card in any form of system - Internet, cashpoint, POS or otherwise - Your "active" card'll have been changed over to the new one and thy old card marked as dead/invalid...In which case do NOT attempt to use the old one as it'll fail, and probabally raise a security flag on thy account!

Incidentally, I received my latest Natwest statement this morning...And although there was yet another account T&C update enclosed, I can't see anything about a changeover to Visa Debit...

Yes, we never accepted Electorn or Solo when I worked in the ticket office. We accepted all other cards, even if we had to write it out manually (like with the French Carte Bleu!)

Hang on a second! IIRC; Carte Bleu was the card that invented the Chip+PIN system back in the late 80's...Therefore, I'd imagine that a Carte Bleu card ought to be the last credit card needing a manual entry! hock:

 

[Greenback]

Yeah, I don;t know why it wouldn't work, all the visa cards from everywhere else worked the old APTIS machines, but not the carte bleu ones! IIRC we had to use the manual forms for some transactions (eg if some part paid by card), but always, ALWAYS had to write one out for the French carte bleu's!

 

[jamesontheroad]

Thanks for all of the above. The letter from NatWest advises me to use the new Visa Debit straightaway, as the Maestro will now be expiring before the stamped expiration date (presumably either after I first use it or within x weeks of the Visa Debit being sent out).

 

[barrykas]

Some Ticket Issuing Systems (notably Avantix Mobile and Tribute) have "issues" with certain Visa Debit cards (I've noticed problems with Alliance & Leicester and LloydsTSB ones), seemingly due to the way the card's configured. (Affected cards also cause oddness with RBS ATMs).

The cards in question are a "hybrid" of Visa Electron and Visa Debit cards, with no cheque guarantee functionality, and appear to have multiple "applications" configured on the chip, which is what confuses the TIS. They all work just fine if the card details are manually entered, however.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[ert47]

I've had a lot of issues with my Maestro card - a year or so back, none of the Southern ticket machines would accept them, I'd usually have to queue up to buy the ticket or withdraw the cash in advance =/

I was so happy when HSBC changed... now to wait for my new Natwest card...

 

[Max]

Some Ticket Issuing Systems (notably Avantix Mobile and Tribute) have "issues" with certain Visa Debit cards (I've noticed problems with Alliance & Leicester and LloydsTSB ones), seemingly due to the way the card's configured. (Affected cards also cause oddness with RBS ATMs).

I've been with A&L and Lloyds and can confirm that I've had issues with both. My RBS Visa Debit is also very troublesome with Advantix.

 

[googolplex]

I've not had any issues with my (Halifax) Visa Debit card either, however my Dad had issues with his Natwest Maestro card over the summer on an Avantix Mobile machine, so I guess it varies!
On a side note there have been some issues with some of the Scottish banks (I think it may have been Clydesdale), as their newly issued cards had a whole new range of card numbers, which caused some systems to think they were foreign, or of a different type.

 

[CarterUSM]

Does everyone use chip and pin for advantix around the country, us north of the border are still swiping away.

 

[Max]

Does everyone use chip and pin for advantix around the country, us north of the border are still swiping away.

It's chip and pin on all of the English TOCs as far as I'm aware.

 

[Tom B]

Does everyone use chip and pin for advantix around the country, us north of the border are still swiping away.

I tend to buy my tickets at Waverley who use chip and pin.

I would imagine TOCs prefer use of chip and pin, anyway - in the event of fraud when a signature was used, the bank absolve all responsibility.

 

[Death]

Thanks for all of the above. The letter from NatWest advises me to use the new Visa Debit straightaway, as the Maestro will now be expiring before the stamped expiration date.

In that case - Given that my Maestro card has over a year left on it - I'll assume that Natwest are rolling out new cards to all customers, and I'll keep an eye on the post for mine.

Incidentally, this raises another interesting question: The LM ticket that I purchased the other day has been earmartked for collection from the QFMs at Farnborough Main using the Ticket on Departure method. Now, I intend to collect that ticket when I go to buy the other ones for the split fare that I'm using (Which'll be at some point in the coming fortnight, when I've confirmed my travel arrangements) but if Natwest issue me this new card quickly and void my old one at the same time, where would that leave me when it comes to collecting my tickets, given that my new card'll have a completely different number and thus won't be valid for collecting tickets bought on the old one?

I'd imagine that the QFMs perform a validity/status check on all cards presented for whatever reason, so just keeping the old card for that purpose after starting to use the new one almost certainly won't work.

I've not had any issues with my (Halifax) Visa Debit card either, however my Dad had issues with his Natwest Maestro card over the summer on an Avantix Mobile machine, so I guess it varies!

Mine's worked perfectly fine on the few occasions I've used it with Avantix Mobile machines held by SWT and Northern, so I suppose it's just the luck of the draw.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

There is a fairly simple reason that some cards don't work with AVANTIX machines, be they credit or debit cards.

Avantix machines are "offline" machines, ie they do not process the card transaction immediately - they store it until they download. When processing via chip and pin, it is authorised by information stored in the chip. Each card has a certain amount "pre authorised" on the chip - ie the amount which will be authorised for an offline transaction. This may be £200, £50 or £0 - I assume depending on your account type, credit rating, account history, previous bank balance, etc.

If your card chip is set at £0, then even if you have lots of money in your account it will be declined on an Avantix machine as it cannot check for live verification.

It also shifts the responsibility for payment. If say the chip automatic authorisation value is £50, and you buy a ticket for £40, but have no money in your account at the time the transaction is presented to the bank, the TOC would still get the money from the bank, as they have authorised the transaction.

If the value is set at £0, and as a result of it being declined the card is swiped through the avantix, and the operator does NOT phone for authorisation, the responsibility rests with the TOC. If you have no money when the transaction is presented to the bank then the TOC would not get the money as the bank hasn't authorised it.

Well, that is what I've been told by the accounts people!

 

[Dolive22]

Death, what to do when you book on a card that is cancelled has come up on here before. I think the procedure is to go to the window to collect, but some people have had problmes withh poorly trained staff doing this. Best to find the thread or check the procedure with a member of station staff on here. As to getting a new one, RBS (of which Natwest is part) has an inouse division that deals with this sort of thing (card issue and manufacture, mailing etc.) so I would guess they are spreading this out so that they can do it with their inhouse division rather than pay someone else.

Is it possible they learnt from problems with the Carte Bleu and changed the standard, so the technology in the Carte Bleu isn't compatible with the standard settled on?

 

[142094]

I used to have problems at NXEC stations which did not accept some of the Visa debit cards, the normal Visa cards they took but some of the other Visa ones they didn't. This was only at the counter and not the machines.