Network Rail Comms Director ‘work harder at school’ comment

[zwk500]

No your wrong. Ibjave the directors remuneration report right hear that's shows in 2019 he was on just underr 300, as of 2021, just over 500k. Why could you not find this. Its right there. Did you even try before brandishing me a liar.

Network Rail has announced that Andrew Haines will be its new chief executive – and be paid 27% less than his predecessor to run Britain’s rail infrastructure.

Haines, the chief executive of the Civil Aviation Authority, will be paid £588,000 including benefits, with a possible 9% bonus, when he takes over in the autumn following a short handover period with retiring boss Mark Carne.

Network Rail appoints new chief – with smaller pay packet than predecessor

Andrew Haines takes job after eight years at Civil Aviation Authority marked by cost cutting

www.theguardian.com

 

[ainsworth74]

No your wrong. Ibjave the directors remuneration report right hear that's shows in 2019 he was on just underr 300, as of 2021, just over 500k. Why could you not find this. Its right there. Did you even try before brandishing me a liar.

Err footnote 7 on page 103 from the report you've attached: "Andrew Haines OBE’s salary is higher than the previous year as he joined Network Rail as chief executive on 14 August 2018, therefore the payment for 2018/19 was pro-rated to reflect part year’s service. The salary for 2019/20 is slightly higher than the base salary of £588k as there were two additional working days in 2019/20."

 

[43096]

No your wrong. Ibjave the directors remuneration report right hear that's shows in 2019 he was on just underr 300, as of 2021, just over 500k. Why could you not find this. Its right there. Did you even try before brandishing me a liar.

No. You are wrong. You need to read it properly, the prior year comparison is meaningless as he joined NR part way through the previous years. Unsurprisingly he didn’t get paid by NR for the period before he joined. There’s even a note in there that tells you: “Andrew Haines OBE’s salary is higher than the previous year as he joined Network Rail as chief executive on 14 August 2018, therefore the payment for 2018/19 was pro-rated to reflect part year’s service.”

 

[Bald Rick]

No your wrong. Ibjave the directors remuneration report right hear that's shows in 2019 he was on just underr 300, as of 2021, just over 500k. Why could you not find this. Its right there. Did you even try before brandishing me a liar.

he joined part way through the year, and therefore didn’t get a full year’s money, obviously.

Perhaps you should try to check your facts before making comments, and also before making a decision that could cost you a lot of money.

 

[Leicester_Loya]

I worded my post badly. What i meant was that the comment should not make any difference regarding whether people were going to vote yes or no as the comment does not change the facts of whichever side of the argument you take.

Not speaking for myself, I'm always going YES.

I've spoke to others who now feel like the higher management regard them as thick plebs, so it's created a us vs. them culture, so they're going to stand with their own now. Obviously entirely up to them, should have always been a YES IMO.

 

[LiftFan]

Not speaking for myself, I'm always going YES.

I've spoke to others who now feel like the higher management regard them as thick plebs, so it's created a us vs. them culture, so they're going to stand with their own now. Obviously entirely up to them, should have always been a YES IMO.

As somebody who is one of the ground staff, I completely agree with the culture of us vs them. We go out in all weathers at all times of year, at all times of day and missing weekends/holidays to keep the infrastructure going. The job would be a lot easier if we weren't having to tiptoe for fear of getting screwed over if the wrong person sees us not wearing glasses. We get reprimanded for not following standards, then get reprimanded when we follow the rule books to the letter because it isn't productive enough.

 

[riceuten]

I think comments such as this tend to emanate from a particular mindset, often together with "You should be glad you have a job in this wintry economic climate", and "There are plenty more people who would be glad of your job if you left"

None of these belong in the 2020s, and none are in any way shape of form helpful in industrial relations.

 

[43066]

Politicians are not paid enough IMHO. Whilst it may rankle to pay more to some of the lowlifes currently inhabiting Parliament, ultimately they make vital decisions about how the country is run and what the law should be.

I tend to disagree.

We want people going into politics for the right reasons, namely because of their convictions (not of the criminal kind, before someone makes the inevitable joke), rather than in order to enrich themselves. MPs are paid plenty considering they can basically do as much or as little as they like, just so long as they win an election every five(ish) years, with that electoral result generally having more to do with their parties’ national performance than them individually. £80k+ is hardly poverty wages, so absolutely no bar to even the poorest entering Parliament.

It’s true that business people with ministerial/prime ministerial levels of responsibility would be paid a lot more, but that’s largely because they exist in a highly competitive job market which defines “success” in the narrow commercial sense of delivering returns to shareholders*, being swiftly replaced if they fail to deliver, whereas politicians only need to win elections.

People might dislike Johnson but he has done rather well on the election front. Assuming he survives the partygate furore where, let’s face it, most of the outrage comes from those who wouldn’t vote for him anyway, he may do so again. In which case he will have been vindicated in the only way that matters.

*this is a lot more murky in the case of NR and other public sector organisations, such as the NHS. Perhaps that’s why they tend to be so awful!

Politics in this country, at least honest politics, pays peanuts, and you know what you get when you pay peanuts. Anyone with a brain on their shoulders is far more likely to go into business than politics as the pay is so much higher, and typically has a good deal better job security, usually without undue public pressure too.

If you think an MP’s salary of £80k+ is peanuts you must be very well paid indeed!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I’m just curious, for those shouting for a national strike, what are you actually aiming to achieve? It certainly won’t result in higher pay, long term job security or strengthen our industry. In fact, in anything beyond the shortest term, it will result in the precise opposite, as it will surely encourage the DfT to cut deeper and sooner than they otherwise would have.

And we wonder why the gvt decided to put its economic recovery eggs in the airline basket.

 

[43066]

I’m just curious, for those shouting for a national strike, what are you actually aiming to achieve?

A national strike is an absolutely terrible idea and I don’t think I know a single front line railway worker who would seriously be in favour of such a thing. There is certainly a concern over Covid being used as an excuse to worsen working conditions, however.

And we wonder why the gvt decided to put its economic recovery eggs in the airline basket.

I’m not so sure that it did?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I personally have never encountered anyone in a management position who is remotely skilled enough to justify even a £100000 salary, but that may be because the truly skilled individuals are busy actually doing the job they are paid for and do not have the time of day to be speaking to the likes of me about their work and I sincerely hope this is the case, otherwise I genuinely fear for the future.

Speaking as a former Senior Head of Projects in a consultancy, who from 1995 to 2004 was based in the Toronto consultancy office where we were project lead on a Canadian hydro project, who never put less than 70 hours weekly work, meeting with Canadian senior Government officials and made more site visits than I care to remember where I was in meetings with union officials as well as site project engineers from approved sub-contractors, all I can say is that those you refer as having met in management positions are certainly not "par for the course".

I attended St Bede's College, Manchester from 1956 to 1961/2 in the Classics stream but also with a strength in Mathematics. I obtained 12 passes at Ordinary Level in the General Certificate of Education (in those days the grading was Distinction, Credit or Pass) then 6 passes at Advanced Level the following semester period. So noting the comment this woman made about schooling, I can assure you that I worked very hard to achieve what I did, aided and abetted by a first-class teaching staff. I then went to Manchester University majoring in Mathematics and in 1966, I was awarded a First in that subject.

My parents both wanted me to follow teaching as a profession, but at that time, a career in industry offered a more exciting prospect and I never regretted my decision to follow my chosen career path. I took retirement at the end of March 2010. I am now 77 years of age.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I’m not so sure that it did?

The big cut to air duty made things pretty clear to me.

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder what Sir Peter Parker and the Robert Reid's were paid (in today's figures) given that they had to lead the whole railway, in comparison.

 

[43066]

Speaking as a former Senior Head of Projects in a consultancy, who from 1995 to 2004 was based in the Toronto consultancy office where we were project lead on a Canadian hydro project, who never put less than 70 hours weekly work, meeting with Canadian senior Government officials and made more site visits than I care to remember where I was in meetings with union officials as well as site project engineers from approved sub-contractors, all I can say is that those you refer as having met in management positions are certainly not "par for the course".

I attended St Bede's College, Manchester from 1956 to 1961/2 in the Classics stream but also with a strength in Mathematics. I obtained 12 passes at Ordinary Level in the General Certificate of Education (in those days the grading was Distinction, Credit or Pass) then 6 passes at Advanced Level the following semester period. So noting the comment this woman made about schooling, I can assure you that I worked very hard to achieve what I did, aided and abetted by a first-class teaching staff. I then went to Manchester University majoring in Mathematics and in 1966, I was awarded a First in that subject.

My parents both wanted me to follow teaching as a profession, but at that time, a career in industry offered a more exciting prospect and I never regretted my decision to follow my chosen career path. I took retirement at the end of March 2010. I am now 77 years of age.

But… Do you still have two Range Rovers?!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But… Do you still have two Range Rovers?!

My dear wife Patricia passed away in her sleep at the nursing home early last November, a sufferer from Vascular Dementia, a week prior to what would have been her 80th birthday. She had not driven since being advised not to do so by her consultant in 2019 and her Land Rover Discovery was passed on to one of our twin sons. I had not driven since the stroke I suffered in July 2012.

 

[43066]

My dear wife Patricia passed away in her sleep at the nursing home early last November, a sufferer from Vascular Dementia, a week prior to what would have been her 80th birthday. She had not driven since being advised not to do so by her consultant in 2019 and her Land Rover Discovery was passed on to one of our twin sons. I had not driven since the stroke I suffered in July 2012.

Yes indeed, I remember you mentioning your wife’s passing. I can also remember expressing my condolences, which are of course duly renewed.

To be clear my comment above was only intended as a lighthearted tip of the hat to the fact you used to make much of having two Range Rovers. I hope you will take it in the spirit in which it was intended.

 

[Peterthegreat]

No your wrong. Ibjave the directors remuneration report right hear that's shows in 2019 he was on just underr 300, as of 2021, just over 500k. Why could you not find this. Its right there. Did you even try before brandishing me a liar.

If you read note 7 it says
Andrew Haines OBE’s salary is higher than the previous year as he joined Network Rail as chief executive on 14 August 2018, therefore the payment for 2018/19 was pro-rated to reflect part year’s service. The salary for 2019/20 is slightly higher than the base salary of £588k as there were two additional working days in 2019/20.
and note 8
Andrew Haines OBE declined the PRP he earned for 2018/19.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes indeed, I remember you mentioning your wife’s passing. I can also remember expressing my condolences, which are of course duly renewed.

To be clear my comment above was only intended as a lighthearted tip of the hat to the fact you used to make much of having two Range Rovers. I hope you will take it in the spirit in which it was intended.

Indeed I do remember the condolence that you expressed at the time and am pleased that you remembered the original two vehicles from days now passed. One was put in part-exchange for the Land Rover Discovery and the same dealer had buyers waiting for the other one.

 

[43066]

Indeed I do remember the condolence that you expressed at the time and am pleased that you remembered the original two vehicles from days now passed. One was put in part-exchange for the Land Rover Discovery and the same dealer had buyers waiting for the other one.

Perhaps a sign I’ve been on here rather too long (haven’t we all). It’s astonishing how quickly time passes. I do hope you’re keeping well.

 

[the sniper]

Perhaps a sign I’ve been on here rather too long (haven’t we all). It’s astonishing how quickly time passes. I do hope you’re keeping well.

You know you've been here too long when the chickens are saying they've been here too long.

 

[43066]

You know you've been here too long when the chickens are saying they've been here too long.

Chickens? I’ll have you know I’m an old boy with a seat at the top table these days .

 

[the sniper]

Chickens? I’ll have you know I’m an old boy with a seat at the top table these days .

You're always a Chicken to someone!

 

[778]

A national strike is an absolutely terrible idea and I don’t think I know a single front line railway worker who would seriously be in favour of such a thing. There is certainly a concern over Covid being used as an excuse to worsen working conditions, however.



I’m not so sure that it did?

When was the last time a national rail strike happened in this country, as apposed to strikes by individual TOC's? I don't rememer any in my lifetime, certainly not since privitization.

For a national rail strike to happen, would it need agreement from the other rail unions?

 

[Statto]

When was the last time a national rail strike happened in this country, as apposed to strikes by individual TOC's? I don't rememer any in my lifetime, certainly not since privitization.

For a national rail strike to happen, would it need agreement from the other rail unions?

1994 was one of the last times there was a national rail strike, i remember it because the Tour De France was on, & Tour De France had a couple of stages in the UK that year, the UK stages were Dover to Brighton & Portsmouth, stages 4 & 5, spectators had to make alternative travel arrangements if they wanted to go & watch the race roadside.

 

[Bantamzen]

I’m just curious, for those shouting for a national strike, what are you actually aiming to achieve? It certainly won’t result in higher pay, long term job security or strengthen our industry. In fact, in anything beyond the shortest term, it will result in the precise opposite, as it will surely encourage the DfT to cut deeper and sooner than they otherwise would have.

And we wonder why the gvt decided to put its economic recovery eggs in the airline basket.

Exactly, a national strike right now will simply encourage the government to make further cutbacks. They are not afraid to drop big ticket projects on a whim, so this round of threatened strikes will not phase them one little bit. In my years served as a TU rep, the single most important lesson I learnt was to read the room. And right now we are heading full speed into an economic, & potentially energy crisis . So its really not the time to be going full militant with a government looking for ways to recover some of the hundreds of billions p***** away on covid restrictions.

On Saturday I travelled over to Scarborough despite the TPE strike. What was quite noticeable was that the bi-hourly service they were running from York was nowhere near full (I got the first service of the day, the 10:50 comprising 2x 185s), very surprising considering it was a Bank Holiday & a warm sunny day. But Scarborough itself was still very busy, showing that if there are no trains people will just find other ways to travel. This should act as a wake-up call to the likes of the RMT, but sadly they are dinosaurs still living in their 1970s fantasy world. If / when the strike takes place, railway workers would be well advised to spend their strike days hedging their bets & seeing what other career opportunities there might be if / when the government takes the axe to the railways.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder what Sir Peter Parker and the Robert Reid's were paid (in today's figures) given that they had to lead the whole railway, in comparison.

Beeching was paid £24k in 1961, that’s the equivalent of over £600k today.

Bob Reid (II) was paid £200k (or thereabouts, I can’t be quite sure) from December 1989, that’s the equivalent of £550k today.

 

[yorksrob]

Beeching was paid £24k in 1961, that’s the equivalent of over £600k today.

Bob Reid (II) was paid £200k (or thereabouts, I can’t be quite sure) from December 1989, that’s the equivalent of £550k today.

So by that standard, today's chiefs are probably a bit overpaid, given they only run part of the industry.

 

[ainsworth74]

So by that standard, today's chiefs are probably a bit overpaid, given they only run part of the industry.

Or perhaps BR's head honchos were underpaid

 

[yorksrob]

Or perhaps BR's head honchos were underpaid

Bob Reid 2 might have been.

(Not sure I could say the same of the Doctor).

 

[Bald Rick]

So by that standard, today's chiefs are probably a bit overpaid, given they only run part of the industry.

Well there is a significant caveat. When comparing how much people are paid over time, you should really use an average earnings index rather than RPI. AIUI Average earnings tends to run ahead of inflation, or at least did till about a decade ago.

Another point is that today’s chiefs are running rather more railway than their predecessors - and by that I mean more passengers, more trains and certainly a lot more investment.

Finally, whilst Andrew Haines ‘only’ runs one part of the industry, he is also running the transition to GBR, and is seen (certainly by DfT) as the defacto person in charge of the whole system.