New EMUs for CP Portugal

[Snow1964]

Alstom has won 117 train order for Portugal, some of the trains being replaced are 70 years old

The Portuguese state railway operator Comboios de Portugal (CP) has awarded the French company Alstom, as consortium leader, the major contract for the procurement of 117 new trains. The joint bidders were Alstom Transporte S.A.U., Alstom Ferroviária Portugal, S.A. and Domingos da Silva Teixeira S.A. A total of five other consortia had bid for the lucrative contract, with CAF and Stadler also on the short list.

The purchase, worth 820 million euros, includes the construction of 62 trains for suburban rail services and 55 for regional lines. There is an option for up to 36 additional trains. The first of the trains are to be delivered in 2026. CP intends to operate 34 of the 62 commuter trains on the extremely busy Lisbon-Cascais route. The current fleet, which consists of units from the 3150 and 3250 series, is essentially more than 70 years old. The railcars used have been supplied from England and Portugal since 1950 and have been modernised several times

The long overdue modernisation of systems and vehicles had been postponed time and again. EU funding has now paved the way for this. The contract to modernise the access points and the track and power supply infrastructure of the 25.5 km long line was awarded last year, including the conversion of the power supply from 1,500 V DC to 25 kV AC. The new signalling technology in accordance with ETCS Lev. 2 will be supplied by Thales.

The line along the banks of the Rio Tejo in Lisbon to its mouth was Portugal’s first electric railway at the time. The modernisation will require some disruptions, but these should be kept to a minimum, as the suburban traffic with various booster and express trains is extremely intensive. There are only connections to the rest of the CP railway network via service tracks, but passengers can transfer directly to the Portuguese capital’s underground network at the Cais do Sodré terminus.

In addition to the Cascais line, a further 16 trains are to be deployed on other Lisbon suburban railway lines and the remaining 12 units on the suburban railway lines around Porto in order to cope with the increased demand there.

Alstom: Major contract to modernise Lisbon's suburban train service + additional regional trains - Urban Transport Magazine

The Portuguese state railway operator Comboios de Portugal (CP) has awarded the French company Alstom, as consortium leader, the major contract for the procurement of 117 new trains. The joint bidders were Alstom Transporte S.A.U., Alstom Ferroviária Portugal, S.A. and Domingos da Silva Teixeira...

www.urban-transport-magazine.com

 

[YorkRailFan]

Do we know what family of trains or what they look like?

 

[Snow1964]

2 types of trains
62 urban metro trains, and 55 regional trains

Alstom has committed to build a plant in Matosinhos for about 300 employees, and deliver first 4car train within 40 months of signing.

The cynic in me wonders if they will move some equipment from Derby to the proposed Portuguese assembly plant.

 

[wastedlife]

In the mid 1980s, I commuted to school from Estoril to Carcavelos on the Cascais line. The rolling stock was superannuated then, so I was staggered that it is still - refurbished certainly internally and doubtless with new traction equipment too etc - running today. They have made certain other improvements since 1986, as you no longer see the things running about with the doors wide open, which was a pretty common occurrence back then. Never seemed to bother anyone particularly, and in any case, the alternative was the Avenida Marginal, which was the most dangerous road in Europe - so, you paid your money and took your choice.

 

[Giugiaro]

I have absolutely no idea what is Alstom's proposal.

The public tender is already in court by an individual with no apparent connections to any of the previous contenders.

 

[BahrainLad]

In the mid 1980s, I commuted to school from Estoril to Carcavelos on the Cascais line. The rolling stock was superannuated then, so I was staggered that it is still - refurbished certainly internally and doubtless with new traction equipment too etc - running today. They have made certain other improvements since 1986, as you no longer see the things running about with the doors wide open, which was a pretty common occurrence back then. Never seemed to bother anyone particularly, and in any case, the alternative was the Avenida Marginal, which was the most dangerous road in Europe - so, you paid your money and took your choice.

How funny. I was at St Julians too from 1986 - 1989 (in the Junior School, I was born in 1982), perhaps our paths crossed. We lived in Birre, just behind Cascais, and so my Mum drove us along the Marginal (no A5 in those days of course). I remember having to drive across the level crossing at Carcavelos to get into school and obviously much excitement if there was a train waiting in the platform.

We did however go up to Lisbon on the train from time to time and of course could see it (with the doors open) from the car when driving along the Marginal. It'll be a shame to see them leave!

 

[Giugiaro]

Finally, here is the winning proposal:

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Are they designed for level boarding from high platforms?

 

[YorkRailFan]

They look somewhat like Coradias.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The other trains in the bottom left-hand corner are XTrapolis Adessia, so the CP trains will probably be branded as Adessia as well.

Adessia commuter trains: The backbone of urban life

Alstom’s Adessia™ commuter transport solutions support urban ecosystems all over the world to grow sustainably, accommodate increasing numbers of commuters and alleviate traffic congestion. Building on its wealth of experience in delivering commuter train solutions, Alstom offers...

www.alstom.com

The Coradia brand is used for low-floor trains.

Coradia regional trains: Accessible solutions to move regions

With Alstom’s broad regional and intercity portfolio, operators and transport authorities are sure to find the regional train to fulfil the needs and expectations of their passengers. Over 4,000 Coradia™ regional trains have been sold and the proven technology of the range offers exemplary...

www.alstom.com

 

[Giugiaro]

Are they designed for level boarding from high platforms?

They won't because the infrastructure manager refuses to adapt to the 760/900mm standard set for Portugal.
The first 34 units meant to operate in the Cascais Line will be 100mm lower than the platforms they're supposed to serve.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

What is the current platform height on the Cascais Line?

 

[Giugiaro]

I made a mistake. The platforms won't be 100mm taller than the floor of the rolling stock, but 200mm.

Cascais Line platforms are 1100mm tall, and this fleet is supposed to have step-free access at 900mm and additional accessibility support for 760mm tall platforms.

Please refer to pages 99 to 100 of the Network Report.

 

[Backroom_boy]

I think the Cascais line was originally electrified by one of Alstom's predecessor companies, so appropriate they are supplying the next lot of rolling stock (only the third in the lines existence?)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think the Cascais line was originally electrified by one of Alstom's predecessor companies, so appropriate they are supplying the next lot of rolling stock (only the third in the lines existence?)

It was UK's GEC.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Wow, I didn't know the existing trains were 70 years old, and that some were built by Cravens! I was there in 2022 and I rode these trains. They seemed to be 80s-90s era trains to me, especially with their plastic looking front.

I did a few Google searches - this is a Cravens train in 1994 according to the caption

1994-09-00 CP Cravens EMU Nr Lisbon

Explore John Carter 1962's 69692 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Are the Cravens units still in operation? The Cravens picture above has a rounded body side profile. But a modern 3150 unit today has a very straight side profile:

CP UTE 3161 + UQE 325x | Cº 27905 | Cais do Sodré | 09-02-2012

Marcha nº 27905 com origem em Cais do Sodré e com destino a Oeiras.

www.flickr.com

 

[gabrielhj07]

Very impressive that they've got to this ripe old age. They're nicer inside than 465s.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Are the Cravens units still in operation? The Cravens picture above has a rounded body side profile. But a modern 3150 unit today has a very straight side profile:

Portuguese Wikipedia says that the Cravens units were Class 3100, built in 1950.

Série 3100 da CP – Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre

pt.wikipedia.org

The straight-sided units were Class 3200, built in Portugal by Sorefame in three batches, in 1959, 1969 and 1979.

Série 3200 da CP – Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre

pt.wikipedia.org

Logically one would expect Class 3150 to be modernised Class 3100 units and and Class 3250 to be modernised Class 3200 units, but both classes were originally Class 3200 units.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Logically one would expect Class 3150 to be modernised Class 3100 units and and Class 3250 to be modernised Class 3200 units, but both classes were originally Class 3200 units.

Yeah, that's what I thought. On this English wiki page, it says:

CP Class 3150 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

CP Class 3100 and CP Class 3200 are two related series of railway multiple units [...] The series was refurbished between 1998 and 2002. Since the renewal, this series has been known as the CP Class 3150 and CP Class 3250.

If this is the case, then what's the difference between 3150 and 3250? From looking at various photos on the Internet, my guess is that the 3150s have smooth body side, while the 3250s have ribbed body sides?

A photo with a comparison of the two bodies (but it doesn't have the train numbers):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Two_trains_at_Cascais_train_station%2C_Lisboa_%2833723898740%29.jpg

 

[Giugiaro]

I also had a lot of issues understanding what was up with the Class 3100 and the Class 3200, but the gist of it is this:

The Class 3100 were originally only GEC-Cravens (Metro-Cammell) EMUs composed of three-car units in a Driving Trailer + Intermediate Motor + Driving Trailer configuration.
Sociedade Estoril originally numbered these as SE 101 to SE 111 and were built in 1950.
The Cravens were engineered to be operationally compatible with the older AEG-Baume&Marpent multiple units and the AEG-North British locomotives.

The Class 3100 received additional units, with Sorefame being contracted to modernize the AEG-Baume&Marpent multiple units, replacing the wooden body with a Budd-patented stainless steel body, while conserving the mild steel bed and under bed, and becoming an unmotorised Driving Trailer.
Sociedade Estoril originally numbered these as SE 112 to SE 124 and were modernised/built in 1959.
Like the first eleven from GEC-Cravens, the Soredame-built EMUs were composed of three-car units in a Driving Trailer + Intermediate Motor + Driving Trailer configuration.
The Intermediate Motor and the second Driving Trailer were fully manufactured in stainless steel by Sorefame.
The Sorefame units came factory-built with Scharfenberg couplers. I don't have sources, but I suspect that the Cravens were also modified by Sorefame to have Scharfenberg couplers, as the crash structure of both is the same.

The Class 3200 were SOREFAME-built EMUs composed of four-car units in a Driving Trailer + Intermediate Motor + Intermediate Trailer + Driving Trailer configuration.
Sociedade Estoril originally numbered these as SE 201 to SE 222 and were built in 1960.
These were brand-new trains made with Budd-patented stainless steel bodies and structures and were factory-built with Scharfenberg couplers.

The individual cars from both the 3100 and 3200 classes and both GEC-Cravens and Sorefame would then be mixed and matched over the years.
When the Sorefame units were later modernized in the late 1990s, all GEC-Cravens units were demolished, and the Sorefame units would be semi-permanently coupled.


Also, quick fact, the AEG-Baume&Marpent cars that have been modernised twice into CP Class 3150/3250 driving units are almost 100 years old!!!

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The individual cars from both the 3100 and 3200 classes and both GEC-Cravens and Sorefame would then be mixed and matched over the years.

That explains the photos on Railfaneurope's Class 3100 page showing Cravens cars sandwiched between Sorefame (or Sorefame-bodied) driving cars.

Picture Gallery - Directory: /pix/pt/electric/emu/3100

 

[boiledbeans2]

I also had a lot of issues understanding what was up with the Class 3100 and the Class 3200, but the gist of it is this:

The Class 3100 were originally only GEC-Cravens (Metro-Cammell) EMUs composed of three-car units in a Driving Trailer + Intermediate Motor + Driving Trailer configuration.
Sociedade Estoril originally numbered these as SE 101 to SE 111 and were built in 1950.
The Cravens were engineered to be operationally compatible with the older AEG-Baume&Marpent multiple units and the AEG-North British locomotives.

The Class 3100 received additional units, with Sorefame being contracted to modernize the AEG-Baume&Marpent multiple units, replacing the wooden body with a Budd-patented stainless steel body, while conserving the mild steel bed and under bed, and becoming an unmotorised Driving Trailer.
Sociedade Estoril originally numbered these as SE 112 to SE 124 and were modernised/built in 1959.
Like the first eleven from GEC-Cravens, the Soredame-built EMUs were composed of three-car units in a Driving Trailer + Intermediate Motor + Driving Trailer configuration.
The Intermediate Motor and the second Driving Trailer were fully manufactured in stainless steel by Sorefame.
The Sorefame units came factory-built with Scharfenberg couplers. I don't have sources, but I suspect that the Cravens were also modified by Sorefame to have Scharfenberg couplers, as the crash structure of both is the same.

The Class 3200 were SOREFAME-built EMUs composed of four-car units in a Driving Trailer + Intermediate Motor + Intermediate Trailer + Driving Trailer configuration.
Sociedade Estoril originally numbered these as SE 201 to SE 222 and were built in 1960.
These were brand-new trains made with Budd-patented stainless steel bodies and structures and were factory-built with Scharfenberg couplers.

The individual cars from both the 3100 and 3200 classes and both GEC-Cravens and Sorefame would then be mixed and matched over the years.
When the Sorefame units were later modernized in the late 1990s, all GEC-Cravens units were demolished, and the Sorefame units would be semi-permanently coupled.


Also, quick fact, the AEG-Baume&Marpent cars that have been modernised twice into CP Class 3150/3250 driving units are almost 100 years old!!!

Thanks for the explanation!

So the difference between 3150 and 3250 is that the former is 3-car, while the latter is 4-car?
What about the smooth sided bodies vs. ribbed bodies like in the following link? Are they from different manufacturers?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Two_trains_at_Cascais_train_station%2C_Lisboa_%2833723898740%29.jpg

Also, do you have photos of the original condition of the AEG-Baume&Marpent cars? I tried searching on Google but found nothing. I thought the 1938 stock/Class 483 in the UK were old in their final days (80 years), but it pales in comparison to AEG-Baume&Marpent cars!

 

[Giugiaro]

So the difference between 3150 and 3250 is that the former is 3-car, while the latter is 4-car?

That was the original configuration back in 1998 until subsequent crashes forced some swapping.

What about the smooth sided bodies vs. ribbed bodies like in the following link? Are they from different manufacturers?

They are the same Sorefame-built vehicles, but some have Aluminium panels over the corrugated steel to enable the installation of vinyl advertisement.

Also, do you have photos of the original condition of the AEG-Baume&Marpent cars?

An AEG-B&M unit very early in its life.

Two coupled B&M units.

A mix of Cravens and B&M units, with an AEG-North British locomotive visible.

A train made of two Cravens and two B&M units.

1960 Sorefame four-unit EMU.

There are plenty of more photos, including in colour, but they are behind a Facebook wall, unfortunately...

 

[boiledbeans2]

That was the original configuration back in 1998 until subsequent crashes forced some swapping.


They are the same Sorefame-built vehicles, but some have Aluminium panels over the corrugated steel to enable the installation of vinyl advertisement.



An AEG-B&M unit very early in its life.

Two coupled B&M units.

A mix of Cravens and B&M units, with an AEG-North British locomotive visible.

A train made of two Cravens and two B&M units.

1960 Sorefame four-unit EMU.

There are plenty of more photos, including in colour, but they are behind a Facebook wall, unfortunately...

Many thanks for your explanation! I'm impressed that 100 year old trains are still in regular (non-touristic) service!

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

I made a mistake. The platforms won't be 100mm taller than the floor of the rolling stock, but 200mm.

Cascais Line platforms are 1100mm tall, and this fleet is supposed to have step-free access at 900mm and additional accessibility support for 760mm tall platforms.

That is going to create an "interesting" situation, because I see from this @superalbs video that currently the train floor is slightly higher than the platform, with platform humps (visible at 3:50) providing step-free access for wheelchairs. Would the loss of level boarding be a breach of Portuguese accessibility regulations?

 

[nwales58]

1) Staff-assisted ramps.

2) Rebuilding platforms, partially, may be a lot cheaper than re-specifying trains.

3) Others will know more about this than I do: DB's 76 / 55cm problem with 55cm or compromise 60cm floor height and ramp which is OK on foot but probably a bit exciting (down) or hard work (up) in a wheelchair.

 

[David M]

"The platforms won't be 100mm taller than the floor of the rolling stock, but 200mm."


200mm is marginally less than 8" - that's a pretty hefty step for both getting on or off.