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New First Capital Connect Announcements

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jon0844

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I was on the 0818 HAT>KGX this morning, and at Potters Bar it was working. I know there's a gentleman who does manual announcements, especially for 3/4-car trains (telling people to move down) and near the peak/off-peak crossover, saying that off-peak travelcards aren't valid on the 0930 train, but I think Phil still announces the trains in advance and as they come in.

Has Stevenage changed over? I say this because the problem with the delayed announcements has existed for over a year, and I never thought it was down to the software being used but rather an infrastructure problem.

There's a frequent delay from a train passing a specific point to that data being sent - which means many trains show as being delayed despite turning up on time when that delay gets too long. I've seen it as bad as 45 seconds (as easily seen by the 'stand clear' announcement, as well as the time it takes to clear after the train passes through). Considering it happens so often, it needs to be fixed. At the moment, it will announce trains as arriving when the doors are closing and it is moving off!

I do hope FCC didn't think that switching to the ATOS system would fix that problem!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It was surreal coming home, after taking a gander at the ICE train at St Pancras.

Got on my train at King's Cross about 10 minutes early. Sat there on my own until a few minutes before, with no announcement from driver. No confirmation of the train stopping pattern, its destination, no safety announcement, nothing. Then the doors closed and off we went - I hoped I was on the right train!

With all the new stations that have the new CIS system, there was complete silence at every station except Finsbury Park and Potters Bar. And never a peep from the driver! Is this the new policy for FCC?

It would have been incredibly easy to fall asleep and wake up at Welwyn Garden City, especially given the ride was so quiet. I've never noticed how quiet it was before, so am I right in thinking that the carriage with first class on a 321 is not motored?
 
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philjo

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The announcements when I was waiting at Potters Bar at 5pm were being made by station staff standing on platforms 1/2 through a megaphone. All of the screens there were blank or saying to phone national rail.
One exception was the departure summary screeen on platform 3/4 which had a windows "system low on virtual memory" error message showing.

Silence at WGC though the screens were working as normal.

I don't recall any announcements at Stevenage or Hitchin either this evening but I was on a 317 which was announcing the stops within the train.
 

jon0844

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At 7.20pm, Potters Bar was working on platform 4.

Something is really screwed with the new system. I do hope they're working on it and treating it as urgent.
 

Pumbaa

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It would have been incredibly easy to fall asleep and wake up at Welwyn Garden City, especially given the ride was so quiet. I've never noticed how quiet it was before, so am I right in thinking that the carriage with first class on a 321 is not motored?

Correct - only motored coach on 321 is the middle coach without the Panto (DTCO - MSO - TSO - DTSO)
 

jon0844

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Well I never! I've been on the 321s many times, but this one was amazingly quiet. It was like we were gliding along the rails!
 

Aictos

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At 7.20pm, Potters Bar was working on platform 4.

Something is really screwed with the new system. I do hope they're working on it and treating it as urgent.

Well how do you tell passengers that their desired CIS screen won't be available so have to use the existing CIS screens?

What I've found out from this system is it likes to announce ghost trains or not announce some trains at all hence making the extra announcement where needed as to the various issues I do believe they are working on them but there's so many issues cropping up it's unbelievable, I really don't want to imagine what the fault log is like but once these faults get sorted, we should all start to see improvements.
 

jon0844

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I am yet to hear a single announcement for a train that I've been on, or about to catch (including waiting for the train afterwards). At Hatfield, it will say the safety announcements and that the train isn't stopping at platform 2 - with badly edited recordings that inserts a weird pause between part of the speech and platform 2.

It also speaks about platform 3 - all on platform 1. Nothing about trains to platform 1 though!! And it doesn't seem to say anything on platform 2 or 3.

You'd think that this was quite important and would have been tested.

And, what's more, I also noticed tonight that in addition to it now saying Kings X instead of King's Cross, it says Letchworth G City. Yo G! Wassup..!

Seriously, did FCC get charged by the character for this new system?!!!

I can't get over just how bad this system is. Thank God we haven't had any disruption yet, although maybe that's the only time it will actually do anything!
 

philjo

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The train I was on this morning was at Platform 2 at WGC & I noticed that the PA on that platform was announcing the Moorgate service due to leave 2 minutes later from platform 4 - no mention of the Kings cross service where this train was actually going to - it was confusing a lot of people waiting to get on who thought from this announcement that the (late running) 317 unit I was on was the Moorgate service rather than the Kings cross service they were wanting to catch. The screens on Platform 2 said Kings Cross.

Announcements & screens all working again this morning at Potters Bar (with the exception of the large departures summary screen in the ticket hall which is blank)
 

dan_atki

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I can't get over just how bad this system is. Thank God we haven't had any disruption yet, although maybe that's the only time it will actually do anything!

Complain, continuously. Hopefully you'll get the delightful, fully working, Mr Sayer back with his robust system that didn't receive half as many complaints!

I'm surprised the GN side is having that many problems - at stations on the TL side, things seem to have went a lot smoother, especially in the core. Maybe ATOS is more compatible with Funkwerk infrastructure than Ditra but I don't know.
 

jon0844

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More fun this morning at Hatfield.

They appeared to have turned off the audio completely this morning, and I noticed that the screens were showing the 0927 to Moorgate above the 0924 to Kings X (sic). The 0923 was delayed until 0929. Nothing odd there; the 0924 is often delayed (but often catches up by getting pushed out on to the up fast further on).

But, without any audio announcements, you had to go by the single screen on the platform further up, or on the small screen you can see in the main building. Not that this would have helped today.

Now, as a side issue, at this time in the morning, there are a lot of people who try and get through the gate with an off-peak ticket. They're always told that they can't travel until the 0943 train to King's Cross, or they can get the Moorgate train. Some get that, while most wait. As the Moorgate train was going first, some people were let through early, after being warned.

Anyway, it gets to 0928 and a train comes in. It's the delayed 0924, running slightly earlier than the system predicted, but the screen was still showing it as the 0927 to Moorgate! Loads of people got on, including those who were told they couldn't get on the 0924. Now, how the hell are they going to know that a Class 321 isn't suitable to Moorgate and must be the wrong train? And if you look at the front of one of these, you'll need eagle eyes to read King's Cross as the flipdot display is unreadable unless you're 1-inch from it!

Things weren't helped by the driver not saying anything and the train not having any screens, so thank goodness there was no RPIs on the train.

And, seriously, what is the point in complaining? Every member of staff has been slagging it off saying it's a nightmare (and I think this is why the audio has been cut) but you know FCC will just come back and say it's going well and we all want it, and how great it is.
 

dan_atki

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And, seriously, what is the point in complaining? Every member of staff has been slagging it off saying it's a nightmare (and I think this is why the audio has been cut) but you know FCC will just come back and say it's going well and we all want it, and how great it is.

It worked for those awful displays on the TL side! It took a few months but after probably several thousand complaints they took notice and thought 'actually, these are not fit for purpose'.

The one thing they are bound to say is it is an 'investment'. You have to simply rubbish that idea before they mention it... The only investment it could be is to obtain more money from people unwittingly on the incorrect train.

Alternatively, go to Passenger Focus or the Equality and Human Rights Commission, then FCC may be forced to take action.
 

thefab444

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I'd give them a month to iron out any problems before we inundate them with complaints. You'd probably have to wait that long for a reply anyway.

Complain, continuously. Hopefully you'll get the delightful, fully working, Mr Sayer back with his robust system that didn't receive half as many complaints!

Nah, pax obviously want Celia at all stations, none of this Phil Sayer nonsense! ;)
 

tripleseis

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I noticed at New Barnet that the same thing happened there too, with the system saying a fast train on platform 2 wasn't stopping... but nothing about the train on the platform.
I must say I really don't like the announcements at New Barnet. Phil was miles better than the lady they use now (same girl as LO right?). I guess the only Phil announcements we'll get in Barnet now are the "Mind the Gap please" messages at High Barnet!
 

jon0844

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I don't care that much about the voice, but the recordings are feeble and far too quiet. They are so weak that they don't make you sit up and take notice - as you did before.

Phil (and the lady, Celia?) make you listen - even if you've heard them a million times before. The ones FCC have now would make you talk over them and wonder 'did I hear someone say something?'.

I should set up a FCC-CIS blog, as tonight the departure screen was showing (and this was at 1825) TWO departures to London Kings X at 1655. Yes, 1655 London Kings X and below, 1655 London Kings X! The actual train coming was the 1827 to Moorgate, but hey - what's wrong with a bit of misinformation?!

And still no audio. That's clearly been turned off. Next they may wish to turn off the screens...!
 

Aictos

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If you think that's bad, try Hertford and the last service being the 0138 to Letchworth being advertised 4 times!!!

As much as I like this new system, I'm starting to think it's crap - Peterborough use the older version of LICC which might be older and more basic but it's bloody reliable other then the time it advertised a Kings Cross to Leeds GNER using Platform 1 which is a bay platform and can only take 4 cars anyway!

Other thing I don't like is some stations which in NXEA speech would be hub stations can't update their displays themselves.
 

jon0844

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Hey the audio was back up this morning! And from 0920-0932, it proceeded to announce delays to every train from 2230 yesterday, right up to a train around 0555 to King's Cross being delayed. Repeating them over and over and over and over, with the odd interruption to tell people that the train on platform 2 wasn't stopping.

The lady also seems to think she's on some game show where you keep people in suspense. When announcing things with a platform there's a pause - so it's

The train will not stop on.. platform 2. (or whatever the exact wording is).

And, when my train arrived - I was warned that the train approaching platform 1 wasn't stopping. Well, it did because I got on it!!
 

thefab444

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The pause is probably down to bad cropping of the audio files.

On the Ditra system, all the sound files are cut down and then the computer inserts a pause where there should be one, e.g. on a list of stations "Calling at Brockenhurst... New Milton... Christchurch... Pokesdown and Bournemouth". The Atos system seems to vary considerably so you might get "Calling at... Brockenhurst... NEWMILTONCHRISTCHURCHPOKESDOWN... and... Bournemouth"!

Needless to say, Ditra employ a professional recording studio, and Atos most likely do it themselves.
 

jon0844

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If they have such an amateurish system, why is anyone buying it??

It's truly. awful. In fact words can't. DescribeJusthow bad

it

is

(Sorry, I was writing that using the new Atos forum software).
 

jon0844

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I imagine the c word has something to do with that. Cost. :(

If you needed to get something from scratch, you might go by price - but FCC already had (at least on the GN side) something that worked fine. So, even if it only cost £10, that's money wasted!

The only problems recently were not down to the system, but the delays in the information getting from the track circuits (most likely a Network Rail issue). FCC must have now realised that the new system will report things late too, so they didn't fix anything by changing.
 

Aictos

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What's amazing is how bad it can be when they're pretty good at doing the web based stuff, and the Journey Check service (PDA/WAP versions) is good too.

One point I will say is ATOS aren't responsible for the Journey Check service, Nexus Alpha are actually responsible for that not to mention the alerts that the media get as well.
 

jon0844

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Whoops - delete my whole comment then. I had a brain fade! Yes, it is Nexus Alpha.

That therefore explains why I was confused.
 

philjo

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They have obviously changed Stevenage over as the announcements are different than before (& the screens now say "Kings X" instead of "London Kings Cross" - could be confusing somewhere like Royston where trains could go to Kings Lynn from the same platform...)

However, I was on a Cambridge train at platform 4 and all I could hear were announcements for the train to Kings Cross arriving at platform 1. Couldn't hear any announcements for the train I was actually on.
 

jon0844

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The new system doesn't announce trains on the platform you're at!

It's a new game that FCC has introduced, to keep you on your toes when you're travelling. Should make standing at the platform more fun, especially when this morning it was going through every train from the night before saying it was delayed for between 6 and 15 minutes (erm, try HOURS).

The screens, for the most part, show the right info - but if there's any disruption then forget it. If a service falls behind, and another 'overtakes' it then the chances are the screen will show the wrong service and people will get on the wrong train, if they don't know certain things (such as a 317/321/365 turning up at Hatfield cannot go to Moorgate).
 

jon0844

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Here's a recording from this morning. That's 9.22am, not 10pm or 6am!

As a guide, I'm on platform 1 and about 50cm from the speaker - nearest the wall (not nearest the trains you can hear very well). You'll notice how good the mic is, given that it can pick up people talking on the platform, trains arriving (that aren't announced) and even someone dragging a bag along the platform. And of course, all the announcements about platforms 2 and 3!! When I started recording, there was a late running Moorgate service on the platform. During the recording, another one will arrive and then my train (delayed 0924) - complete with the announcement that a train for platform 1 was not stopping, which it did (and you can hear it!). I had paused the recording part way through, so it's not entirely continuous. And it's not edited in ANY way. Nothing is joined together... it really was just going in a continuous loop.

It's not a faulty microphone on my BlackBerry - this is how quiet the announcements are from ALL the speakers! Seriously!

(I can't upload audio files as attachments, so I had to archive it - sorry for the inconvenience, but perhaps a mod/admin can fix that?)

View attachment VN00005-20101021-0922.amr.zip

(It is lucky it is quiet, as the gateline staff would surely have good reason to refuse to work with this going on ALL day!)
 
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thefab444

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Ah, it's Anne. :roll:

Thanks for that recording though - just as well it was very quiet really, that could have been seriously annoying otherwise! Hopefully at some point they'll get the zoning and wording of the announcements worked out.
 

dan_atki

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Interesting it is just 'King's Cross' and not 'London King's Cross'... But yes, I'd hope this problem is seen as paramount priority to get fixed!

Reminds me of when Funkwerk was put on TL North stations 'St Albans, St Pancras!, Farringdon' was later changed to 'St Albans, St Pancras International, Farringdon'. 'St Pancras' being used for EMT services.
 

jon0844

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Many stations seem to have gone live in a matter of days, but some have been missed completely.

It's awful, so those who were missed are lucky! Maybe they weren't missed but had even bigger problems than the ones that have gone live but don't actually give any decent information.

Probably the biggest cock-up by FCC since they took over the franchise, and I put it even above their problem with the shortage of drivers from last year!

FCC hasn't yet issued a press release on its site to announce the new system and how great it is, so they must be aware that it's completely awful. No doubt fixable, but whoever allowed it to go live when it doesn't work should be getting a bit of a talking to...
 

jon0844

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I think that's her, but it's hard to tell given that the voice in the above video is audible. Listen to my audio clip, with me standing 150cm away (not 50cm as I mistyped) from the speaker.
 
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