New First Capital Connect Announcements

[thefab444]

Yes, that's her. Atos Anne.

Does the male voice actually announce trains, or just the misc stuff about not leaving your luggage lying around?

 

[Fred26]

I had my first experience of the new FCC system yesterday - it's atrocious. The old system was a million times better even when it wasn't working properly.
The announcements are quiet, they don't repeat the train calling pattern/departure time, platform alterations are now announced twice, as opposed to six times before. If the station has more than two platforms, including fast lines, announcements for 'stand clear of the edge, fast train approaching', though now said twice, are put across all platforms, which is pointless. Frustratingly every single announcement is made across all platforms. This could be considered good (at least with departures) if it wasn't for the fact that trains can come into two platforms at once (also some passengers will always be confused by announcements for trains travelling in the opposite direction). So if a train comes in going to London and one to Peterborough at the same time, one will be announced over the whole station and the other probably won't be announced at all. Staff can't make announcements on isolated platforms/areas either - it has to be everywhere.
The announcements are very quiet, except when there's a booming male voice saying something like 'stand back behind the yellow line...'

It really is an abysmal system. I haven't finished yet...

The CIS screens are in a terrible state too. If there's a platform alteration the incoming train will show on all screens on both platforms at the same time. This coupled with the quiet (and not repeated enough) announcements means people are missing their trains.
Hull Trains are being advertised on the uproad at Stevenage when they shouldn't be - tickets from Stevenage to London aren't valid on Hull trains.
Information on the screens isn't clearing quickly either. For a good twenty minutes after the 1912 and 1916 had left Stevenage last night, the information stayed on the screen and did not clear until the departure of the 1929.

That's about all for now.

Basically, the announcements are too quite, not repeated enough and shouldn't always be announced everywhere.

I'm not impressed at all. It would be better if the system was shut off so the staff could do it themselves.

 

[Aictos]

I had my first experience of the new FCC system yesterday - it's atrocious. The old system was a million times better even when it wasn't working properly.
The announcements are quiet, they don't repeat the train calling pattern/departure time, platform alterations are now announced twice, as opposed to six times before. If the station has more than two platforms, including fast lines, announcements for 'stand clear of the edge, fast train approaching', though now said twice, are put across all platforms, which is pointless. Frustratingly every single announcement is made across all platforms. This could be considered good (at least with departures) if it wasn't for the fact that trains can come into two platforms at once (also some passengers will always be confused by announcements for trains travelling in the opposite direction). So if a train comes in going to London and one to Peterborough at the same time, one will be announced over the whole station and the other probably won't be announced at all. Staff can't make announcements on isolated platforms/areas either - it has to be everywhere.
The announcements are very quiet, except when there's a booming male voice saying something like 'stand back behind the yellow line...'

It really is an abysmal system. I haven't finished yet...

The CIS screens are in a terrible state too. If there's a platform alteration the incoming train will show on all screens on both platforms at the same time. This coupled with the quiet (and not repeated enough) announcements means people are missing their trains.
Hull Trains are being advertised on the uproad at Stevenage when they shouldn't be - tickets from Stevenage to London aren't valid on Hull trains.
Information on the screens isn't clearing quickly either. For a good twenty minutes after the 1912 and 1916 had left Stevenage last night, the information stayed on the screen and did not clear until the departure of the 1929.

That's about all for now.

Basically, the announcements are too quite, not repeated enough and shouldn't always be announced everywhere.

I'm not impressed at all. It would be better if the system was shut off so the staff could do it themselves.

That's the case at Hertford as well although St Pancras and City Thameslink seem to be quite loud, maybe it's the setup of the speakers?

As to letting the staff deal with it locally as well as a central point; before WAGN went, certain stations were able to update their monitors locally as well at the central location so by introducing a system similar to NXEA using Hub Stations, it could well be done.

The last FCC managed stations to have this were Blackfriars, Bedford, St Albans and I think Luton.

 

[Fred26]

It's allegedly going to happen. Though how interactive it's going to be remains to be seen.

That's not what I meant though. I meant, it would be better if the announcements were turned off, allowing the staff to announce manually. The auto announcements are nothing more than a hindrance.

 

[jon0844]

They have been turned off some days, but not the day where I recorded what would have been a constant barrage of quiet announcements of delayed trains that had gone the night before and were for a totally different platform.

The speakers must be fine. The old system was fine. Either the recordings are too quiet, or the output volume on the software is simply set wrong.

It's ridiculous that it doesn't announce trains as they're arriving, but will go on about things on other platforms. Obviously it must be possible to fix, but you'd think that it would have been fixed in a matter of hours or a few days - and that's assuming it wasn't tested in any way before being switched on.

I would have delayed the switch-on based on a lot less going wrong than has actually happened. People will have been missing trains, and in my experience, boarding the WRONG trains (and potentially being hit with PFs when 'caught') so this is nothing short of gross negligence.

For people who haven't seen/heard this, I accept that sounds rather OTT and melodramatic, but the system in place now is so bad that FCC should probably be reported to the DfT or whoever on the basis that they must be breaching some conditions of their franchise for providing information.

 

[Aictos]

It's allegedly going to happen. Though how interactive it's going to be remains to be seen.

That's not what I meant though. I meant, it would be better if the announcements were turned off, allowing the staff to announce manually. The auto announcements are nothing more than a hindrance.

It won't happen though as St Albans and Bedford have already been told that they will not see operator PCs to locally manage announcements with with alterations.

For single manned stations, announcing manually isn't as easy as doing it at multiple manned stations for one thing you might be restricted to only using the local PA in the office so seeing as staff are encouraged to be on the platform before the train arrives immediately comes into conflict for one when trains at Hertford terminate, they could use either Platform 2 or 3 never mind what the booked platform is and there's no way of knowing what the platform will be until the train is nearly right in the station.

Of course, if roaming microphones were available and worked as they were designed to do so then there's no reason why staff couldn't use it manually.

I prefer the system to be on automatic despite it's desire to announce ghost trains and manually announce any announcements as a extra to the automatic ones.

 

[jon0844]

To make it fit for purpose, they need to:

1) Get the volume right so people can hear the announcements. Yes, the voices suck but that's a minor issue in comparison.

2) Get announcements working for the right platforms, and have them work independently.

3) Have the safety announcements about keeping clear from the platform edge loud and clear, with flashing text on the signs as before, and on the RIGHT platform. Not telling people on platform 1 to stand back from platform 2!

4) Announce the next train at regular intervals from each platform, including 'train now approaching' and then the stopping pattern when it has arrived. Like it did before, and does probably everywhere in the country.

5) Announce platform/train alterations, such as when the 0924 train often comes behind the 0927 in the morning at Hatfield. That way, people won't get on the wrong train - and in this case, a train that won't accept off-peak tickets, rendering them liable to a penalty fare.

This will at least get things back to as they were. Then you can work on all the fancy stuff that tells people about what's happening during times of disruption, gives announcements on problems in London, the tube status and so on.

Is that so hard?

 

[Fred26]

It won't happen though as St Albans and Bedford have already been told that they will not see operator PCs to locally manage announcements with with alterations.

For single manned stations, announcing manually isn't as easy as doing it at multiple manned stations for one thing you might be restricted to only using the local PA in the office so seeing as staff are encouraged to be on the platform before the train arrives immediately comes into conflict for one when trains at Hertford terminate, they could use either Platform 2 or 3 never mind what the booked platform is and there's no way of knowing what the platform will be until the train is nearly right in the station.

Of course, if roaming microphones were available and worked as they were designed to do so then there's no reason why staff couldn't use it manually.

I prefer the system to be on automatic despite it's desire to announce ghost trains and manually announce any announcements as a extra to the automatic ones.

I'm not suggesting turn the PA off and having staff do it themselves, but I am saying that as the system is at the moment, having staff make announcements would give a better end result.
I'm very much in favour of auto PA's, with staff interjecting and adding when need be, but the system has to be good enough to cope with that. At the moment it's a long way off.

 

[jon0844]

Technology advances as time goes on too, so to have replaced a system that is 4-5 years old with this is even more breathtaking!

 

[Jordy]

Bedford seems to be suffering similar problems to the GN side, train on platform 1 are not announced, and most of the speakers are barely audible (other than a select few on platform 1).

 

[jon0844]

I was told today that a lot of staff have complained, and it is driving them up the wall hearing the nonsense announcements - and the tinny voice that 'trickles' out the speakers!

 

[Jordy]

Excellent, hopefully they'll sort it out then.

 

[jon0844]

Unless they ignore all of their staff, which wouldn't surprise me given how they ignore customers now and just fob them off.

Still, FCC still hasn't announced its new system on its website so I am sure they're aware it sucks - but by not having fixed it or adjusted anything at all, it does make me wonder how and when they're planning to change anything.

I hope they get some support with the software, and it doesn't run out after 14 days. It's approaching a fortnight old now!

 

[Fred26]

They (FCC) think it's great.
Some supervisors have asked for it to be switched off during the day, apparently, because it's so confusing during the peaks.

 

[jon0844]

I nearly missed my train this morning because it is still suffering the delays that caused the old system to announce late. This has another side effect; it makes trains on time show as running late.

So, my train was down to arrive after a slow service - and I was chatting to someone and didn't even hear it arrive on time (the doors in the station building were closed and 321s are pretty quiet). It was only the gateline staff that told me.

Even if you're a regular user, the audible announcements are still important. It's ridiculous to suggest turning them off. I also think a few disabled groups might also have a thing or two to say on that too.

 

[Aictos]

Bedford seems to be suffering similar problems to the GN side, train on platform 1 are not announced, and most of the speakers are barely audible (other than a select few on platform 1).

If you think that's bad, try Farringdon as the LUL speakers on their platforms are unaudible - the only speakers you can heard audible are on the footbridge.

On the platforms, the only announcements you can hear quite audible are the FCC ones!

I know FCC is trying to get the announcements to finish as the train rolls into the station for though services but this takes time as every single station and service needs to be checked.

It just needs time, I'm sure it will a reliable system given time.

 

[jon0844]

Farringdon is a bit of a building site, so I'd accept issues there - along with Blackfriars. The FCC platform speakers were always loud there (maybe that helps the new ones be heard!), and I am not sure I've ever heard a LUL announcement made manually there - just platform staff with radio mics.

But, they haven't done anything at the other stations inflicted with this system, which may be powerful and capable of great things, but has so far done nothing except cause grief for passengers and staff over the last week and a half!

I can only assume the software as installed simply doesn't let you be selective on platforms (which means the person who ordered it should be shot!), and they're turning off the platform 1 announcements because it seems to keep talking about old trains that went 12-18 hours ago. Given the same problem seems to exist at all stations with it, it sounds like a major bug and not a case of someone not having configured it correctly.

 

[thefab444]

I don't understand why they want the announcement to be played as the train arrives. It's no use to anyone on the train, nor much use to people on the platform.

The best method in my opinion would be something like:

2-3 minutes before arrival/whenever the platform is clear if there is a train in front:
"The next train at platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction. Calling at Elephant & Castle, Loughborough Junction, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham, Mitcham Eastfields, Mitcham Junction, Hackbridge, Carshalton and Sutton. Customers for stations to Beckenham Junction and West Croydon should change at Tulse Hill. This train is formed of 4 coaches. The next train at platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction."

Train entering track circuit:
"The train now approaching platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction. This train is the service from St Albans. Please allow customers off the train first."

Train standing at station with doors open (achieved by timer):
"London Blackfriars, this is London Blackfriars. Mind the gap between the train and the platform please, mind the gap. The train now at platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction. Calling at Elephant & Castle, Loughborough Junction, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham, Mitcham Eastfields, Mitcham Junction, Hackbridge, Carshalton and Sutton."

 

[jon0844]

The system should work as it always has, at least as it has on the GN side. It announces the next service periodically (if there's a long gap, say 20-30 minutes), then about 3-4 minutes before it is due (as timetabled). If there's a delay, it might also give an apology.

You then get a 'the train now approaching platform ...' one as it arrives, followed by the 'Station Name; this is Station Name...' with the calling pattern as the train is AT the platform.

At the moment, the long delay from the info getting from a track circuit to wherever it needs to be to be passed on, means the last two can be very late - resulting in the last one starting as the train is leaving or has already left.

But that's a serious problem that needs to be fixed, as it's been like that for about a year (although on some days, it works fine). If FCC simply thinks that turning it off solves the problem, then they may as well turn off the screens, remove the speakers and save on having any software at all!

I brought up the delay issue with FCC on their forum, and they said the new software would fix it - which it obviously hasn't (and couldn't, as anyone with any sort of technical knowledge could have said). How can it, if the information being fed to it is delayed, for some reason that nobody seems to have ever worked out? Platform staff know all about it, obviously, and so will anyone that has heard the 'stand well away from the edge of platform x, the approaching train is not scheduled to stop at this station' about 30 seconds after a train flew through.

Wouldn't it be Network Rail that are responsible for the track circuits and the infrastructure that sends information on about the location of trains? Given that it can result in the screens showing trains as being late, I do hope that it isn't getting TOCs marked down (and penalised) for running late when they're actually on time!

 

[philjo]

Monday & Tuesday this week when I went through on the train I noticed that the announcements at Stevenage were being made by staff manually & the screens mainly just saying something like "Please listen to announcements for information" - though last night the screens were saying "stand Clear" on platform 4 for the train I was on (& is scheduled to wait there for 3 minutes!)
Today the auto system was busy apologising for the fact that the next train on platform 2 (normally due in 6 minutes time) was running 3 minutes late - no mention of the train I was on at platform 1 so various people on the platform were having to ask staff which train it was.

At least Phil is still working as normal this morning at Potters Bar, Hitchin & Letchworth! WGC has got glorious silence though the screens are all working.

 

[Aictos]

I don't understand why they want the announcement to be played as the train arrives. It's no use to anyone on the train, nor much use to people on the platform.

The best method in my opinion would be something like:

2-3 minutes before arrival/whenever the platform is clear if there is a train in front:
"The next train at platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction. Calling at Elephant & Castle, Loughborough Junction, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham, Mitcham Eastfields, Mitcham Junction, Hackbridge, Carshalton and Sutton. Customers for stations to Beckenham Junction and West Croydon should change at Tulse Hill. This train is formed of 4 coaches. The next train at platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction."

Train entering track circuit:
"The train now approaching platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction. This train is the service from St Albans. Please allow customers off the train first."

Train standing at station with doors open (achieved by timer):
"London Blackfriars, this is London Blackfriars. Mind the gap between the train and the platform please, mind the gap. The train now at platform 4 is the 12:00 First Capital Connect service to Sutton, via Mitcham Junction. Calling at Elephant & Castle, Loughborough Junction, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham, Mitcham Eastfields, Mitcham Junction, Hackbridge, Carshalton and Sutton."

From what I understand of the LICC system, it is setup to give one approach announcement and no pre or standing one, this is because the LICC is in operation on both the TL and GN and there cannot be 3 sets of announcements for every train in the core on the TL.

The one announcement is timed correctly so that it finishes just before the train comes to a stand is currently being checked at all locations.

 

[thefab444]

There could be three announcements per train on TL if the stations were zoned.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can easily identify most of them but not this one:

It is used at Lancaster, Wigan North Western, Warrington Bank Quay, Blackpool North and possibly a few other North West stations.

I can't identify the voice-over and It has a rather strange characteristic of saying calling at _______, ____________ and __________ ONLY (regardless of how many stops there are).

The chime signaling the start of the announcement sounds more akin to a supermarket as well

I think that system is a Ditra product, although I'm not sure. No idea who the woman providing the voice samples is either. The "only" feature is quite amusing on a Cumbrian Coast service calling at all stations!

That Warrington video is also a good example of how loud and clear the announcements should be at all stations.

 

[Fred26]

Even if you're a regular user, the audible announcements are still important. It's ridiculous to suggest turning them off. I also think a few disabled groups might also have a thing or two to say on that too.

It isn't ridiculous at all. The announcements are in such a state that the staff are better off doing it themselves. Unfortunately it's now impossible to isolate announcements to a particular platform, so if there's two trains on two different platforms, one isn't going to be announced.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From what I understand of the LICC system, it is setup to give one approach announcement and no pre or standing one...

So we've now got the situation where a platform alteration was announced six times (4x 'this is a platform alteration...' and 2x 'the train now approaching...'), to being announced twice if you're lucky. Sometimes it isn't announced at all, sometimes just once. If they manage to straighten it out I'll be amazed, for it will be an amazing achievement. I haven't got much, if any, faith.

 

[jon0844]

I meant it's ridiculous to consider turning them all off as a solution. The solution, if the system doesn't work, is to quickly roll back to the old one temporarily until you can make the new system work 100%, or as close to 100% as possible.

Some teething problems are expected, but this system just doesn't work!!

The stations that haven't switched should refuse access to any contractor that comes down to try and change it over!

 

[philjo]

WGC has got glorious silence though the screens are all working.

Well I spoke too soon!
At WGC this evening the new system is in operation (to an extent) & the screens on the platform at not working (well at least platfroms 3/4).

I noticed that the system was not announcing the Moorgate/Kings Cross services that started from platforms 3/4 but it did announce the Cambridge service from the same platform a few minutes later (albeit very quietly on the platforms - the loudest place seems to be on the footbridge)

The best bit: every few minutes it kept saying "the approaching train is not scheduled to stop..... keep away from the edge of......." (or something similar). then a fast train would go through about 30 seconds later
I then twigged that this was warning of approaching trains on the down fast line.... the fast lines at WGC do not have platforms (so thae gaps are where it would normally insert platform 2 etc) !

 

[jon0844]

It's a farce isn't it. It's like someone came down, installed some software and then ran away after turning it on!

 

[dan_atki]

Unfortunately it's now impossible to isolate announcements to a particular platform, so if there's two trains on two different platforms, one isn't going to be announced.

ATOS has the ability to announce 'locally' - just go to London Bridge or Gatwick Airport.

 

[jon0844]

ATOS has the ability to announce 'locally' - just go to London Bridge or Gatwick Airport.

That seems a long way to go to hear the announcement.

 

[dan_atki]

That seems a long way to go to hear the announcement.

True, but both stations show how the system should be set up!

 

[jon0844]

London Bridge uses Phil doesn't it? Can't FCC use those recordings?