No 1 and 2 cabs

Inversnecky

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I always thought it didn’t really matter which end of a loco was used, but there seem to be differences in certain locos/MUs so one end is definitely preferred and ‘No 1’ and ‘No 2x’ ends aren’t just a matter of labelling.

What differences do there tend to be? Why would there be any practical difference in driving?
 
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Eccles1983

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Size.

The only one I am aware of is 153's. No 1 end is what used to be the leading cab of the 155 before it was cut in two.

The no 2 end is smaller in comparison.

Other units use 52/57. Some use 50/79. All depends on the unit.
 

pieguyrob

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Someone who drives either class 66's or 153's will be able to go into detail about that.
 

theironroad

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On multiple units, with identical driving cabs at each end, it's more a matter of orientation. Certain kit/MCBs etc may be in one cab, but knowing which cab you are in helps when all the intermediate coaches may have different kit in them. Makes a difference on a long train knowing where stuff is.
 
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but in terms of driving, does that make any difference?
In driving terms, No,
In a Class 66 (On DB) Number 1 cab is the large cab with Circuit Breakers Etc in, Number 2 the smaller cab it radiator end. We were told on learning that they are back to front basically American design so litterally flipped around for UK use

Earlier Classes 31, 37, 47 etc Radiator end was always No 1 end
 

CW2

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When operating in multiple it was always wise to avoid coupling the No 1 (radiator end) cabs together, as when working hard the locos would tend to starve one another of radiator air and thereby overheat. This was particularly an issue with class 31s, which were often used in pairs on long-distance services.
 

Deltic1

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More to help identify problems relating to maintenance, if the driver's got a problem with No.2 cab or B end or whatever he can note it down, rather than put the coach number which takes an engineer longer to find. A end on most older BR units is next to the MSO, while on most newer units it's the other way round with the trailer next to the A end.
 

driver9000

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There are also A side and B side too which often have different equipment below the solebar. For driving cars on a unit No.1 end is the cab end and No.2 end is non driving end partly why the small cab on 153s became No.2 cab.
 

HSP 2

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When operating in multiple it was always wise to avoid coupling the No 1 (radiator end) cabs together, as when working hard the locos would tend to starve one another of radiator air and thereby overheat. This was particularly an issue with class 31s, which were often used in pairs on long-distance services.

Interesting. How come it didn't and doesn't appear to be a problem with class 20s.
I always thought that it was more to do with the air intakes taking in hot air for the fuel injectors and causing problems.
 

hexagon789

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Why would there be any practical difference in driving?
Not so much practical difference with handling but on some locos due to equipment layout one cab might be noisier than the other.

Also on the prototype diesel Lion only the no. 1 cab had a heater! So drivers might have preferred the no. 1 cab in winter on that particular loco! ;)
 

py_megapixel

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Are there any cases on MUs where which end the driver is at affects the stop position? For example, getting the wheelchair space door aligned with a Harrington hump? Though units aren't generally turned round so that's probably quite unusual?
 

theironroad

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Are there any cases on MUs where which end the driver is at affects the stop position? For example, getting the wheelchair space door aligned with a Harrington hump? Though units aren't generally turned round so that's probably quite unusual?

Pretty sure there are no humps on SWR as there is such a mix of traction types and formation lengths that wouldnt be practical to install.

They seem to work best on places like the tube where they can guarantee a door will be opposite a hump due to fixed train length.
 

driver9000

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Are there any cases on MUs where which end the driver is at affects the stop position? For example, getting the wheelchair space door aligned with a Harrington hump? Though units aren't generally turned round so that's probably quite unusual?
I used to drive on routes where some stations had Harrington humps and it made no difference which way round the unit was facing. You would be amazed how often a unit can turn around even those which generally go back and forth in a relatively straight line.
 

py_megapixel

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I used to drive on routes where some stations had Harrington humps and it made no difference which way round the unit was facing. You would be amazed how often a unit can turn around even those which generally go back and forth in a relatively straight line.
Interesting to know - thanks very much!
 

Chris217

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I suspect all the ex SR DEMU classes 201-207 had each ends classed differently with the engine compartment/ brake van present.
Most notable with an upside down triangle symbol at one end.
 

ComUtoR

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I always thought it didn’t really matter which end of a loco was used, but there seem to be differences in certain locos/MUs so one end is definitely preferred and ‘No 1’ and ‘No 2x’ ends aren’t just a matter of labelling.

What differences do there tend to be? Why would there be any practical difference in driving?

Orientation can be important because isolation cocks also tend to be on one side only. Everything I drive is split by some percentage so you get one set of cocks on one side and the rest are on the other. The problem with that is; you may need to isolate something that is on the platform side so is inacessible or something may be the other side when prepping a unit so it cannot be checked.

It also helps when fault finding. If you know which cab you are dirivng from and you develop a fault, if your unit has an indication on which coach it is, you can work out what the fault is because you can identify the coach. We have a few faults that are indicated by the BIL light; so if I know I'm in DMOS A then I can work out which coach it is by counting back.
 

Tynwald

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Is it correct that a Class 37 was started from the no. 2 cab - was that normal for these diesels?
They can be started from either cab, but as the BIS is just behind No 2 cab, then that is the easiest place to start them. same with a lot of locos. class 68 are the same.
 

Cowley

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They can be started from either cab, but as the BIS is just behind No 2 cab, then that is the easiest place to start them. same with a lot of locos. class 68 are the same.
What does BIS stand for? Is it the battery isolator switch?
 

Richard Scott

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What does BIS stand for? Is it the battery isolator switch?
That's correct. Often start a number of Sulzer engined locos from number 2 end (24, 26 and 45 in my experience) as engine gauges are at that end and can see oil and water pressure whilst priming.
 

scotraildriver

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When we worked Class 67s there were notable differences. I can't remember what end was what but one end you had to change the RETB connections about to get the radio to work. Also only 1 of the 2 doors to the engine room was a through route to the other cab, the other one was a dead end, like an HST.
 

D6130

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Not so much practical difference with handling but on some locos due to equipment layout one cab might be noisier than the other.

Also on the prototype diesel Lion only the no. 1 cab had a heater! So drivers might have preferred the no. 1 cab in winter on that particular loco! ;)
Really?.....I can't see ASLEF having agreed to its members driving a loco which only had a heater in one cab!
 

Cowley

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That's correct. Often start a number of Sulzer engined locos from number 2 end (24, 26 and 45 in my experience) as engine gauges are at that end and can see oil and water pressure whilst priming.
Thanks Richard.
 

JModulo

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I used to drive on routes where some stations had Harrington humps and it made no difference which way round the unit was facing. You would be amazed how often a unit can turn around even those which generally go back and forth in a relatively straight line.
Surely it would with a 156 as the wheelchair access is at one end of the unit?
 

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