Northern 323 diagrams

[childwallblues]

323219 is now in Manchester and this morning is on the 2K12 0635 Manchester Piccadilly to Macclesfield with 323231. It returns to Piccadilly as 2H81 0717 arriving at 00752 then forms 2K16 0838 to Macclesfield/
323207 is currently not in service nor is 323220.

Today 323219 is booked to work 5G40 0923 Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield and 2G40 0947 return.

Today 323219 is on 2K32 0806 Manchester Piccadilly to Crewe.
No other ex WMT units appear to be in service today.

 

[BPN2022]

There are a lot of 323s stabled at Blackpool North CS. Are they in warm store?

When can we see them in traffic on the fylde coast?

 

[Geeves]

Today 323219 is on 2K32 0806 Manchester Piccadilly to Crewe.
No other ex WMT units appear to be in service today.

One other one was pottering around though probably a tough spot! 212 was on training duties up and down between Blackpool and Preston

Also in regards BPN2022 question ROG are moving them around between Allerton and Blackpool N CS every few days or so.

Also if you look on Realtime trains the headcodes in the day 5N31, 32, 33, 34 are all training runs (if they run)

 

[BPN2022]

One other one was pottering around though probably a tough spot! 212 was on training duties up and down between Blackpool and Preston

Also in regards BPN2022 question ROG are moving them around between Allerton and Blackpool N CS every few days or so.

Also if you look on Realtime trains the headcodes in the day 5N31, 32, 33, 34 are all training runs (if they run)

Thanks for that. So not due to enter service anytime soon to BPN?

Will they go into use in WMT livery too?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Will they go into use in WMT livery too?

According to the train I saw at Piccadilly today, yes.

Description: WMT 323 at Piccadilly

 

[childwallblues]

323207 and 323219 are in service today from Manchester Piccadillyto Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe respectively.

 

[david l]

2 unidentified WM's liveried 323's seen yesterday on Springs Branch.

 

[childwallblues]

2 unidentified WM's liveried 323's seen yesterday on Springs Branch.

I think one is 202.

 

[theblackwatch]

Can anyone confirm which ex WM 323s have actually run in service with Northern so far please? I know 323207/208/219/220 have - are there any others?

 

[childwallblues]

Can anyone confirm which ex WM 323s have actually run in service with Northern so far please? I know 323207/208/219/220 have - are there any others?

Just the four that you mention to my knowledge.

323205 and 323220 have gone to Wolverton reportedly for a repaint.

 

[BPN2022]

Will we see 323s appear to Blackpool in Dec24?

 

[thealexweb]

Will we see 323s appear to Blackpool in Dec24?

It really depends on 323 availability and how far Northern get with their 323 crew training.

For what it’s worth most/all Blackpool-Manchesters will be timed as 323 from the timetable change.

 

[scrapy]

Will we see 323s appear to Blackpool in Dec24?

Yes approximately half the Blackpool to Manchester Airport services will be 6 car 323s, there will also be the odd Liverpool service run with a 323

It really depends on 323 availability and how far Northern get with their 323 crew training.

Training going well, 323 availablity will increase when training units go into passenger service.

 

[childwallblues]

Yes approximately half the Blackpool to Manchester Airport services will be 6 car 323s, there will also be the odd Liverpool service run with a 323


Training going well, 323 availablity will increase when training units go into passenger service.

I presume that the 323 diagrams from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North are those currently operated by the 331/1

 

[Jamesrob637]

The 17:06 Piccadilly to Crewe was a 6-car 323 today.

 

[Northern158170]

Today via a FOI request (not mine) I have found the draft December 2024 diagrams: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/december_2024_unit_diagrams

Summarised: 34 units, 20 of which will be in use
1X Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western
1X Manchester Piccadilly to Alderley Edge
4X Manchester Airport to Blackpool North (2X sets of 2) eg. 11:48, 10:17 departures from MIA
5X Manchester Piccadilly to Crewe
1X Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield
3X Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke

1X Peak Unit - 1 journey each from Manchester Piccadilly to Wilmslow (return only), Crewe, Hazel Grove
1X Peak Unit - Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke, Crewe
1X Peak Unit - Afternoon: Allerton - Liverpool LS - Wigan NW - Manchester Vic - Wigan NW - Springs Branch
1X Peak Unit - Morning: Springs Branch - Wigan NW - Liverpool LS - Manchester Vic - Liverpool LS - Allerton
1X Peak Unit - Afternoon: Allerton - Liverpool LS - Manchester Vic - Liverpool LS - Wigan NW - Liverpool LS - Manchester Air - Ardwick

Stabling/Mtce/Exam

3X Allerton
2X Ardwick
2X Blackpool TMD
2X Manchester International Depot
1X Stockport Carriage Sidings
5X Wolverton

 

[thealexweb]

59% in daily use is still very low isn't it?
Even the 769s are expected to manage 75%

 

[jonnyfan]

I would expect 323 usage to increase in the May 2025 timetable change once more 331s move over to West Yorkshire for 6-car operation on the east of the Pennines.

 

[Bertie the bus]

59% in daily use is still very low isn't it?
Even the 769s are expected to manage 75%

It could well be below 50% unless they open the platform extensions at Leyland as 323s don't have SDO. They were completed 10 months ago and they are still barriered off.

 

[thealexweb]

It could well be below 50% unless they open the platform extensions at Leyland as 323s don't have SDO. They were completed 10 months ago and they are still barriered off.

Contractors have been out in the last few weeks prepping the extension area. Hopefully nearly ready.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

59% in daily use is still very low isn't it?
Even the 769s are expected to manage 75%

Once Wigan - Bolton electrification is done another 8 or so units may be nessecary.

 

[thealexweb]

Once Wigan - Bolton electrification is done another 8 or so units may be nessecary.

This query gets brought up a lot but we never get an answer to it lol.

We are told Northern doesn’t need/can’t afford the off lease 323s and that they existing 323/331 pool will make do… I imagine we’ll see 769 will pan up the whole journey initially.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Today via a FOI request (not mine) I have found the draft December 2024 diagrams: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/december_2024_unit_diagrams

Summarised: 34 units, 20 of which will be in use
1X Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western
1X Manchester Piccadilly to Alderley Edge
4X Manchester Airport to Blackpool North (2X sets of 2) eg. 11:48, 10:17 departures from MIA
5X Manchester Piccadilly to Crewe
1X Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield
3X Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke

1X Peak Unit - 1 journey each from Manchester Piccadilly to Wilmslow (return only), Crewe, Hazel Grove
1X Peak Unit - Manchester Piccadilly to Stoke, Crewe
1X Peak Unit - Afternoon: Allerton - Liverpool LS - Wigan NW - Manchester Vic - Wigan NW - Springs Branch
1X Peak Unit - Morning: Springs Branch - Wigan NW - Liverpool LS - Manchester Vic - Liverpool LS - Allerton
1X Peak Unit - Afternoon: Allerton - Liverpool LS - Manchester Vic - Liverpool LS - Wigan NW - Liverpool LS - Manchester Air - Ardwick

Stabling/Mtce/Exam

3X Allerton
2X Ardwick
2X Blackpool TMD
2X Manchester International Depot
1X Stockport Carriage Sidings
5X Wolverton

Only one on Hadfield? That's been solid 323 operation for years... will it now see the first booked 331s then?

 

[jfollows]

Only one on Hadfield? That's been solid 323 operation for years... will it now see the first booked 331s then?

AN858 and AN859 diagrams show as 331/1, yes. Draft diagrams currently, though.

 

[Geeves]

I'd imagine the Blackpool trains will increase in units like others have said when the platforms at Leyland are finally done and more training has been completed and it isn't so difficult to roster, you have currently have Piccadilly, Victoria, Blackpool N, Wigan and Buxton, (might even be Barrow too) covering Airport - Blackpool trains.

Also it's likely at some point the Wigan NW via Golborne will run all day and not be using what ever old unit is available like 150s etc. Liverpool Wigan too.

 

[childwallblues]

I'd imagine the Blackpool trains will increase in units like others have said when the platforms at Leyland are finally done and more training has been completed and it isn't so difficult to roster, you have currently have Piccadilly, Victoria, Blackpool N, Wigan and Buxton, (might even be Barrow too) covering Airport - Blackpool trains.

Also it's likely at some point the Wigan NW via Golborne will run all day and not be using what ever old unit is available like 150s etc. Liverpool Wigan too.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Any chance that the peak Hazel Grove to Manchester services can be booked 6-car?

 

[childwallblues]

And of course the half hourly service from Lime Street to Earlestown and stations beyond still has not returned after COVID with the exception of the morning and evening services to Manchester Victoria and the Wigan NW to Liverpool services which run via Newton-le-Willows before/after the peaks,

 

[thealexweb]

And of course the half hourly service from Lime Street to Earlestown and stations beyond still has not returned after COVID with the exception of the morning and evening services to Manchester Victoria and the Wigan NW to Liverpool services which run via Newton-le-Willows before/after the peaks,

Northern have said the Liverpool-Warrington stopper will not be returning. Probably because it had the highest subsidy per mile of all Northern services.

 

[scrapy]

Any chance that the peak Hazel Grove to Manchester services can be booked 6-car?

Unlikely as won't fit at Woodsmoor and Davenport. Is there the demand for them to be 6 car? Don't they also interwork with the Buxtons so need to be diesels?