Northern re-records 34 station name announcements with local pronunciation

[johnnychips]

I am currently on a Northern train to Scarborough, and am apparently in ‘Hole’ at the moment.

 

[northwichcat]

Both pronunciations of Shrewsbury are in common use and the difference is so insignificant that nobody can complain that they don't know which place is being announced when it is the 'other' pronunciation. So in fact, TfW should use whichever one it chooses and no adult passenger will get upset about it.

That's fine if you have or can see the name written, but hearing Mytholmroyd pronounced in whatever way, in amongst a list of others that you might no know otherwise, doesn't really help much.

So basically your argument is you're aware of two different pronouncations being used for Shrewsbury and you're fine with either being used. However, when it comes to Mytholmroyd you think the pronouncation used should be done in a way that's friendly for non-locals. Shrewsbury might be a county town but it's a small one and they'll be many people who aren't familiar with it and won't know about the disagreement on the correct way to pronounce it. If Mytholmroyd should be pronounced the same at Chester and Manchester, then so should Shrewsbury.

Anyway as Shrewsbury isn't served by Northern, this is getting off topic.

Can't wait until the Northumberland line reopens, they may need subtitles

As stated already Northern aren't using local voices, unless you mean the Yorkshire guard who is doing annoucements for Northern network wide won't be understood in Northumberland. They've consulted to correct the some of the place names he's mispronounced and they're going to re-record those ones.

 

[Killingworth]

On a 150 or 156 with windows open its hard to hear anything however it's announced!

I was puzzled to see Dore & Totley on the list. What alternatives are there for that? Shortened to Dore! Local border issues there.

Station CIS and recorded announcements give the train destination as Manchester Pic. Pick?Presumably to differentiate from Manchester Vic.

 

[northwichcat]

Station CIS and recorded announcements give the train destination as Manchester Pic. Pick?Presumably to differentiate from Manchester Vic.

I don't know why Northern shorterned them from Piccadilly and Victoria to Picc and Vic. For stations that have services going to both, they are easier to tell apart if the full names are used.

They also add (Chs) after Ashley, which gets a strange sound from the automated annoucement. I'm not sure why. Possibly to identify the first non-Greater Manchester in the Chester direction?

 

[jh64]

Can't wait until the Northumberland line reopens, they may need subtitles

The next stop is... Eshington, ah hord ye!

 

[fgwrich]

Unfortunately there's a few mispronunciations at Chester - the Leeds services for example! Todmorden and Mythomroyd mispronounced and missing Low Moor and Bramley recordings. Though the voice they use is a lady from Cornwall so probably had no idea how to say them without guidance!

Ah, good old Ruth. I do miss her voice across the West Country, or indeed in Scotland on the tatty Haymarket 8 (158s) where you’d often be reminded to be careful when storing your luggage on the overhead wax.

 

[Edgeley]

The Yorkshire chap does a robust rendition of 'Cark & Cartmel' - though I think a Scouser might do it even better.

The exaggerated f'th in Carnforth in the old recording came across as a bit of an affectation. There are times when a more RP version, in this case as in the number or the Scottish bridge, would be more appropriate.

 

[Rikki Lamb]

And is that 'Keithlee' and 'Fourster' in your view?

It's keithley and fourster. How do you pronounce it?...keyley

How is it said? I’ve generally heard people from Bradford say ‘Foster’ rather than ‘For-ster’ but there seems to be a disagreement locally.

It is supposedly FOURster but you're right, locally it is Foster like Bradford is Bratfud. We're an awkward bunch

 

[AM9]

It's keithley and fourster. How do you pronounce it?...keyley

Keith-lee is what I've always assumed. If Fourster is pronounced as Foster then depending on any other similar sounding names in the area, that might confuse. I presume that if it is pronounced 'Fourster', ty'he locals don't have any problems recognising it.

 

[Rikki Lamb]

Keith-lee is what I've always assumed. If Fourster is pronounced as Foster then depending on any other similar sounding names in the area, that might confuse. I presume that if it is pronounced 'Fourster', ty'he locals don't have any problems recognising it.

Phew, alot of people think it is Key not keith. I was always bought up to say fourster but it seems to be ignored these days.

Another bradford name that causes confusion is Frizinghall, when Leeds station was rebuilt in 2000, the new announcement said Frizzinghall. Safe to say they realised soon it is FRYzingall

 

[Freightmaster]

I am currently on a Northern train to Scarborough, and am apparently in ‘Hole’ at the moment.

Technically correct!




MARK

 

[Purple Train]

and then it was changed to "Saint Dennis" and then it was changed again to "Saint Dennies" so they finally got it right on the third try. Then there was also Burneside which was originally "Burn Side" but then they quickly corrected it to the "Burn E Side" pronunciation.

On St Denys - what's the difference between those pronunciations?

On Burneside - do you mean it's pronounced with three syllables? That's interesting.

"We are now approaching ... ’I'll smash yer bloody face in’ Brinnington.... Please take all belongings and riot shields with you and take care when in stone throwing range of the locals"

I can't pronounce Brinnington, though that's more a speech impediment. But on such things - how pedantic is it reasonable to be with announcements? Slaithwaite I can understand - but how much difference does the silent L in Mytholmroyd make? Of course, it may even change with accent...

 

[D6130]

but how much difference does the silent L in Mytholmroyd make?

It's not the silent 'L' that's the problem....it's the vowel sound in the first syllable. It's always - without exception - pronounced 'My-' as opposed to 'Mi-'. However in the film 'Sylvia' - about the tempestuous relationship between American poet Sylvia Plath and her husband (later Poet Laureate) Ted Hughes, who was born in the village - Daniel Craig (Hughes), in reply to a question from Gwyneth Paltrow (Plath) at her parents' garden party in Boston, MA, says words to the effect that 'We don't 'ave dos like this back in Mitholmroyd'....at which point the packed audience in the Hebden Bridge Picture House erupted with scorn and disdain at his mispronunciation. As an 'off-cumden' (outsider), I found their reaction quite amusing!

 

[stadler]

On St Denys - what's the difference between those pronunciations?

On Burneside - do you mean it's pronounced with three syllables? That's interesting.



I can't pronounce Brinnington, though that's more a speech impediment. But on such things - how pedantic is it reasonable to be with announcements? Slaithwaite I can understand - but how much difference does the silent L in Mytholmroyd make? Of course, it may even change with accent...

The "Saint Dennis" pronunciation is pronounced pronounced to rhyme with menace. The "Saint Dennies" pronunciation is pronounced to rhyme with pennies. It is the "Saint Dennies" pronunciation which is correct.

Yes indeed Burneside is pronounced with three syllables. It is a very odd pronunciation. I would never have guessed Burneside was pronounced like this as for many years i thought it was just two syllables too. At first i thought it was a mistake but after speaking to locals it turns out that it is actually correct. I have attached a recording of how it is pronounced.

 

[johnny_t]

How else can you pronounce Chesterfield other than as its spelt ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If they want to use a Yorkshire voice network wide I'd suggest a Huddersfield accent. It's closer to a Lancashire/North West accent than a Sheffield, Leeds or Hull accent.

How very dare you?! Take that back!

Depends which Huddersfield accent you mean. People in the Colne Valley speak quite different from people in the Holme Valley, and those of us from the rural hinterland to the South (Skelmanthorpe, Denby Dale, etc) are different again. Though you do have a point in a way on the Lancashire thing- there are certain inflections common to former coal mining areas whether they be Wigan, Barnsley or Clayton West. Related, for some reason people from Preston roll their Rs in an almost Wurzels-esque twang.

 

[D1537]

When I lived in Coventry, even the locals couldn't seem to decide whether Stivichall was 'Stychal' or something more like 'Styvechale'. Some even still spell it the latter, archaic way.

It's still spelt that way on the buses. I believe it was put to a vote and Styvechale won easily.

National Express Coventry Volvo B7RLE/Wright Eclipse Urban 2 2158 (BX13 JSV)

National Express Coventry Volvo B7RLE/Wright Eclipse Urban 2 2158 (BX13 JSV) seen with its smart branding for the 9 and 9A, in Pool Meadow Bus Station, Coventry working a 9A journey.

www.flickr.com

 

[prod_pep]

The "Saint Dennis" pronunciation is pronounced pronounced to rhyme with menace. The "Saint Dennies" pronunciation is pronounced to rhyme with pennies. It is the "Saint Dennies" pronunciation which is correct.

Not doubting you, but this one doesn't quite seem logical. Surely it should be pronounced 'Dennis' as Denys is an older spelling of the modern name. The name does not note belonging to a 'St Deny', as in 'St Deny's'. I suspect 'Dennis' is still the traditional albeit less frequently heard pronunciation of the area and 'Dennies' is a modern corruption.

Back to Northern territory, I wonder if the new voice gets Rainhill and Halewood right, i.e. with second syllable stress?

 

[geoffk]

Are Chester-le-Street and Chapel-en-le-Frith going to be said with a French accent? There are several of these (presumably derived from Norman French like Grosmont) but none of the others has a station (Houghton-le-Spring, Hetton-le-Hole, Ashby de la Zouch).

 

[snowball]

She pronounces the 'morden' part as if it's the same as the London Underground terminus of Morden. It reminds me of hearing someone from the South West pronouncing the 'Chead' part of Cheadle Hulme, the same as the 'Ched' part of 'Cheddar'.

I used to live in Cheadle Hulme. Some old bus conductors pronounced it Cheddle Um.

 

[duffield]

How else can you pronounce Chesterfield other than as its spelt ?

The locals I know always just call it "Chezz".

 

[northwichcat]

How very dare you?! Take that back!

Depends which Huddersfield accent you mean. People in the Colne Valley speak quite different from people in the Holme Valley, and those of us from the rural hinterland to the South (Skelmanthorpe, Denby Dale, etc) are different again. Though you do have a point in a way on the Lancashire thing- there are certain inflections common to former coal mining areas whether they be Wigan, Barnsley or Clayton West. Related, for some reason people from Preston roll their Rs in an almost Wurzels-esque twang.

With any border the accents creep over but get slightly softer. The Chesterfield accent sounds similar to the Rotherham one. Runcorn sounds similar to Speke. Altrincham sounds similar to Knutsford. Northwich in the middle of Cheshire seems to be an island, surrounded by towns with very different accents.

Are Chester-le-Street and Chapel-en-le-Frith going to be said with a French accent? There are several of these (presumably derived from Norman French like Grosmont) but none of the others has a station (Houghton-le-Spring, Hetton-le-Hole, Ashby de la Zouch).

Why? The French didn't name them.

For the acid test what accent would you use for the Canadian capital? The name given to the settlement by the First Nations was Ottawa but a British military man changed it to Byfield. Queen Victoria changed it back but put a Germanic twist on the pronunciation!

 

[Rikki Lamb]

Holborn stumps many northerners. I have had to convey its correct pronunciation many times.

It's Ho-Bun isn't it?

 

[Trackman]

Yes indeed Burneside is pronounced with three syllables. It is a very odd pronunciation. I would never have guessed Burneside was pronounced like this as for many years i thought it was just two syllables too. At first i thought it was a mistake but after speaking to locals it turns out that it is actually correct. I have attached a recording of how it is pronounced.

It has been for years, now they saying it's wrong.
Found a you-tube of a local chap and it's pronounced as it on the train/stations.
Puzzled.

It's Ho-Burn isn't it?

Correct, or even obun.

 

[Rikki Lamb]

With any border the accents creep over but get slightly softer. The Chesterfield accent sounds similar to the Rotherham one. Runcorn sounds similar to Speke. Altrincham sounds similar to Knutsford. Northwich in the middle of Cheshire seems to be an island, surrounded by towns with very different accents.



Why? The French didn't name them.

For the acid test what accent would you use for the Canadian capital? The name given to the settlement by the First Nations was Ottawa but a British military man changed it to Byfield. Queen Victoria changed it back but put a Germanic twist on the pronunciation

It has been for years, now they saying it's wrong.
Found a you-tube of a local chap and it's pronounced as it on the train/stations.
Puzzled.

Correct, or even obun.

I didn't do badly for a Northerner then

 

[AM9]

I didn't do badly for a Northerner then

I've mostly heard it, and pronounced it myself as: 'Hoe burn' where the 'burn' is very short tending to 'bn', with most of the emphasis on the 'hoe'.
'obun' is more for the cockney/estuary speak nowadays.

 

[tynesider]

It's little wonder there's been a need to re-record stations if they can't even manage to pronounce "to" correctly.

"...Northern service tuh" - Absolutely hideous

 

[Pit_buzzer]

It's little wonder there's been a need to re-record stations if they can't even manage to pronounce "to" correctly.

"...Northern service tuh" - Absolutely hideous

Yep, i was on a Leeds to Doncaster stopper last night and all the passengers around me were mocking the tu pronunciation

 

[NorthernSpirit]

But which Yorkshire accent should they use? There are at least three variants going from Leeds, through Bradford and onto Halifax and the Calder Valley.....

As someone who was born in Halifax, Northern could have hired me in to do the pre-recs what with my previous radio experence. Although I would expect a draft sheet with station name in one column and pronounciation in the other so to save time not messing up the job in hand, even then I'd probably go overboard and record just enough stations incase they ever were to reopen e.g Burton Agnes, Tadcaster, Wetherby and Golcar or served again such as Marsden.

Good job the station closed at Luddendenfoot then. How is that spoke in local parlance?

Its pronounced locally as Lud-en-foot.

 

[Edgeley]

The phrase 'this is the Northern service to' is irritating. Use of the definite article suggests that it is the only one, or the only one that day; 'a Northern service' would be better.